As I feared a few minutes after Covenants were announced....it will get worse

[Doffen]

Because they don't design this game for your kind. You will buy the game regardless, they don't need to cater to you at all. As you forfeit your only leverage (your wallet) by pre-ordering and playing anyway, your opinion becomes weightless.

They make this game for themselves (as artists) and for the overwhelming majorities who don't want stale min-maxing focused shit to play. They make this for the players that care about performance and style, feel, gameplay, etc.

For all of those who care, the designers must do something interesting. The designers and fans are the lifeblood of this game, not you.

I like you. Spot on.

Absolutely love the Covenants. Seeing the different Covenants represented in every aspect of the game wherever I go makes me smile.

A great expansion so far, with an awesome looking raid coming in a day. Life is fucking good.

There is 110 million downloads for recount damage meter, 64,997,361 downloads for Details damage meter, and 37,512,477 downloads for Skada damage meter. Do you guys think it's all the "elite minority" that did this?

In fact, the top 3 downloaded addon on curse is DBM with 303.4 million downloads, then raider.io with 113.3 million, then recount with 110 million, and then weakauras with 87 million, details damage meter is next, and then bagnon.
This is all the <10%, right?

You know if one player has to download recount several times during an expansion, like 10 updates, thats 10 downloads right? Recount got 500k dl of the latest version. If we got 5 mill players now thats 10%.

Lols. I personally believe its more than 10% that cares about performance. But not many more care so much about it than choosing fun rather than more throughput.

[Tesshin83]

There is 110 million downloads for recount damage meter, 64,997,361 downloads for Details damage meter, and 37,512,477 downloads for Skada damage meter. Do you guys think it's all the "elite minority" that did this?

In fact, the top 3 downloaded addon on curse is DBM with 303.4 million downloads, then raider.io with 113.3 million, then recount with 110 million, and then weakauras with 87 million, details damage meter is next, and then bagnon.
This is all the <10%, right?

This doesnt mean anything other than people like to monitor their performance. Keep in mind though in relation to other people they play with that play the game in the same way they do.

LFR people are going to compare their damage to other people doing LFR and most people in that environment when someone else doing twice as much damage as they do are smart enough to consider factors like skill, gear aquired etc.

Download statistics for damage meter addons doesnt mean everyone care about min maxing or player performance on a elite level.

[Dystemper]

So shadow Lands had another year or so to be ready to play? Guess I'll jump in next Dec

[Lei]

I like you. Spot on.

Absolutely love the Covenants. Seeing the different Covenants represented in every aspect of the game wherever I go makes me smile.

A great expansion so far, with an awesome looking raid coming in a day. Life is fucking good.


You know if one player has to download recount several times during an expansion, like 10 updates, thats 10 downloads right? Recount got 500k dl of the latest version. If we got 5 mill players now thats 10%.

Lols.

My point was is that on a wow addon site the top downloaded addons are performance addons. Compare it to All the things. Or can I mog it, or rarity. Of course there is overlap but denying that people do care about their performance is very disingenuous. Even when you level, if you pop a bigger damage session, people start inspecting you.

[Zig Zug]

A lot of people only play to have fun.

Imagine that.

[Tesshin83]

No this post is to tell people who said

"It is just BETA"
" We do not need #pulltheripcord"
"People will play what they want"
"It is all a big overreaction"
"Only the 1% will try to optimize"
"We have real choices"

^ Those people were wrong and the people who have paid attention for 16+ years realized that the WoW community would gravitate to the FOTM/Min/Max specs. Somebody needs to raise the alarm now because right now this expansion is getting a massive pass because "it is not BFA" but it has extremely core fundamental issues that are about to snowball very badly as item level increases.

This is a broken system and there is no defending it and the best reasoning I have seen from anyone is "well atleast it is not Azerite" or BFA. That is it when it comes to valid argument on why this system is not busted.

Let me make this clear. If you are a Paladin and do not go Kyrian right now then you are a trash player that only serves to slow down groups for your own RP purposes. It is rude to any guild you are in and if you get benched during a raid because you like vampires then do not cry.

A lot of guild leaders are being nice right now because they are rebuilding after BFA ESPECIALLY when it comes to Paladins but reality is about to hit a lot of these nice guild leaders in the face when they get stuck on raid bosses because half the guild wanted to RP and people who actually want to make any progress in a gear starved expansion leave in mass for guilds that do take this semi seriously.

That you actually believe this is kind of scary.

First of all. These statistics doesn't represent the entire playerbase. So its not exactly representative what most people do.

Secondly your entire post is simple nonsense as it seems you believe that what players contribute to their team is only their dps or hps output. Which, hardly any proper guild would agree with.

If you don't even can understand that any covenant or soulbind choice is viable and none of the choices doesn't remotely slow or speed up anything compared to skill level or mechanical execution you are truly lost.

Sad to say it, but the mindset you preach there actually makes people bad at the game.

[glowpipe]

oh noes. i might do marginaly worse damage. How will i ever be survive!

Its time to ban dps meters from this game and get rid of the min/max whiners. The amount of toxicity over nothing is unreal

[Morae]

While I can't offer any sources, to my understanding there are specs that do ~50% less dps than others. Still, its not just covenant choice that is all of it, but things clearly aren't right. Its not just "minmaxer" thing. It will matter to non world first people.

Blizz will have to balance everything to the most powerful. THose who do not pick the meta, will find themselves underperforming.

[Tesshin83]

I say it again as loud as I possibly can.

Statistics doesn't remotely say anything about covenant system is bad or not, but how many people who approach game decisions like sheep or not

[deenman]

Doesnt matter unless you are doing world first.

its pure delusion to think that only world first is effected by this,it all trickles down as it did in bfa and legion,but this time its FAR WORSE,have fun finding a guild that wont care about you holding them back by being potentialy half a player power wise

[Jazzhands]

I'm kind of sad it took this long, I wanted to vet my week 1 heroics.

[Puremallace]

That you actually believe this is kind of scary.

First of all. These statistics doesn't represent the entire playerbase. So its not exactly representative what most people do.

Since I do not work for Blizzard and do not have access to their master dashboards I have to take the information we are given that will get FAR more fleshed out as people optimize Covenants around raids and ESPECIALLY Mythic + within the next few weeks.

While it might not be the entire WoW playerbase obviously having one Class and spec go 75% into a specific Covenant should be a massive red flag to anyone who can look at a very nice sample size and make a conclusion based on feedback that was ignored and predictions that were made shortly after this system was announced.

Expecting people to stop trying to have the best possible abilities a class can have to be optimal or excellent was always a ridiculous argument the community had with people that defended this silliness.

The major issue Blizzard has now that is a timebomb that they lit themselves was a large majority of the spec/classes in this game have far more then 50% representation and I expect 70-80% very soon that if they start nerfing to spread out the Covenants they are going to enrage a lot of people.

[Tesshin83]

its pure delusion to think that only world first is effected by this,it all trickles down as it did in bfa and legion,but this time its FAR WORSE,have fun finding a guild that wont care about you holding them back by being potentialy half a player power wise

90% of guilds are like that so it shouldn't be an issue and they understand as explained earlier that covenant choice for players in the guild soesnt hold back or speed up anything compared to other factors.

I wish people would understand.

[gaymer77]

***SNIP****

So let me see if I get this right. Someone who only did M+ in seasons 1 & 2 with a highest key being a +7 on his Horde character with absolutely no raiding done what so ever (outside of the possible LFR) and on his Alliance who only has raiding progression in Eternal Palace 7/8H and 2/2H Crucible (no Ny'alotha progression what so ever) character stopped doing M+ in season 3 on with the highest ever in BFA being a +12 is worried about pushing keys and mythic raiding? Ok that makes total sesnse. I guess in BFA you had the wrong Azerite powers and essences so you couldn't get into groups and your friends & guild also refused to let you attend because you didn't have the right stuff right???

[Tesshin83]

Since I do not work for Blizzard and do not have access to their master dashboards I have to take the information we are given that will get FAR more fleshed out as people optimize Covenants around raids and ESPECIALLY Mythic + within the next few weeks.

While it might not be the entire WoW playerbase obviously having one Class and spec go 75% into a specific Covenant should be a massive red flag to anyone who can look at a very nice sample size and make a conclusion based on feedback that was ignored and predictions that were made shortly after this system was announced.

Expecting people to stop trying to have the best possible abilities a class can have to be optimal or excellent was always a ridiculous argument the community had with people that defended this silliness.

The major issue Blizzard has now that is a timebomb that they lit themselves was a large majority of the spec/classes in this game have far more then 50% representation and I expect 70-80% very soon that if they start nerfing to spread out the Covenants they are going to enrage a lot of people.

As explained earlier. How many people picking anything doesn't say anything about what is actually best or not as only Blizzard actually know this.

Theorycrafting and players testing is mediocre as valid information at best. Therr are so many effects and stats in covenant that doesn't fit into a theorycrafting model its even impossible to measure these things. All of this also relies on the assumption that increase in damage or healing stats is the only thing that matters. Ot doesn't.

75% percent going into a specific covenant doesn't say why they did either.

For paladins kyrian is assumed to be the best choice. It also fits best in terms of RP so how do you know why those people picked that covenant?

I hope you release that your worries about this is a you-problem.

[Xath]

I say it again as loud as I possibly can.

Statistics doesn't remotely say anything about covenant system is bad or not, but how many people who approach game decisions like sheep or not

Gotta love when people who do no content say that what is in some cases a 10 to 20 percent delta means nothing lol.

[Zakaryy]

OP really said lemme post my own thread on the bnet forums to back my own claims up ??????

People really think this is going to make a big difference down the line and further on into the expansion?
It's not. It's really not. Obviously some spells are gonna sim better than others in solo content, group content, single/multi target, raiding, mythic, pvp.
Regardless of these spells, unless you are playing and are going to be in a specific percentile of the player base that revolves around these. It does NOT matter.

Choose what covenant is best for you. Not for your character.

[Tesshin83]

Gotta love when people who do no content say that what is in some cases a 10 to 20 percent delta means nothing lol.

Refering to me? I have been doing mythic raiding since Siege of Orgrimmar and all heroic raiding before that.

[Xath]

What's with the extreme analogy? This is a video game that yes, has competitive aspects to it, but unless you're playing at a certain level (the top 1%) then you can show up to fight a dragon with a suboptimal ability if you like that ability more because it's not going to hinder your progress.

- - - Updated - - -



Because you like the ability and you can do all but the hardest content with it.

It literally will hinder your progress though if you are a worse player you still need to pass the same threshold as better players and corruption isn't here to carry people over the finish line this tier.

- - - Updated - - -

Very easy. DPS loss or increase is not the most important factor that contributes to performance.

If you don't raid or do any competitive content sure the night fae might contribute more to your mogs per hour stat.

[Byleth]

This thread, posted in bad faith, is a waste of space.

OP hasn't even played Shadowlands. Why are you all wasting time on this nonsense?

I picked the covenants I enjoy playing the most, and no amount of min/max nutjobs will change my mind.