MM just got PVP nerfed

[Justintime328]

Lol stopped reading after Sub is fine.

[DechCJC]

My experience is irrelevant, but I was gladiator grevious/prideful seasons.

It being strong right now also doesn't mean much since it's week 2 of a brand new expansion and we have no gear, and me pointing out that it's survivable is simply offering a counterpoint to the absurd notion that there's no counterplay available (as you said yourself).

People suggesting rogue gets nerfed to the ground because of the current state of rogues are simply bad at the game.

In what world is your experience irrelevant? It’s totally relevant to how credible your opinion is.

I’m not saying that gear won’t improve the situation, I just don’t believe it’s the only issue. I’m not saying that they need nerfed to the ground either, just a few tweaks.

There are occasions where counterplay is nearly impossible in a 1v1 scenario. Like in my previous post, I have literally died in 2 globals. Yeah, you can maybe come out of it alive if you’re fast to react and there’s no other factors involved, but it’s damn unlikely.

I prefer the faster pace of PvP, I love sub rogue, but I do believe it’s overturned even accounting for current gear.

[Steelangel]

Rogue main spotted.

How u can even say Sub is fine. Right now, rogue is crazy OP. But please teach us oh master of 700 rating games, how to survive rogues that can burst you through your cds while being immune to all cc.

U can have the best utility in the game, crazy survi, and be able to burst anyone in 3gcd.

Rogue main here: How does one become immune to all cc, cause if I'm caught with my trinket on CD, I can get stunlocked and turned into dead by a feral or DH in 2.3 seconds.

[Mozu]

There are occasions where counterplay is nearly impossible in a 1v1 scenario. Like in my previous post, I have literally died in 2 globals. Yeah, you can maybe come out of it alive if you’re fast to react and there’s no other factors involved, but it’s damn unlikely.

Oh I didn't realize you were talking about 1v1 situations. A lot of drastic changes need to be made to the game in order for 1v1 situations to be fair and balanced. Hopefully you're not serious and understand that the game should be balanced around team-play.

[DechCJC]

Oh I didn't realize you were talking about 1v1 situations. A lot of drastic changes need to be made to the game in order for 1v1 situations to be fair and balanced. Hopefully you're not serious and understand that the game should be balanced around team-play.

Right, I’m not just talking about 1v1, but since the arena season hasn’t started it’s what I’m going off.

So you think there will be more counterplay to rogues 2 shotting in 3s? Come on man. It might not be this bad in a few weeks, but you can’t seriously say it doesn’t need tweaked. You can’t. It’s already been nerfed once and it will again, you’re literally the first rogue I’ve met that’s actually defending it.

[Mozu]

Right I’m not just talking about 1v1, but since the arena season hasn’t started it’s what I’m going off.

So you think there will be more counterplay to rogues 2 shotting in 3s? Come on man. It might not be this bad in a few weeks, but you can’t seriously say it doesn’t need tweaked. You can’t.

Of course there's more counterplay to rogues "2 shotting" in 3s... Unless your teammates are braindead. Which brings me back to my original point of watching good players easily survive this "2 shot" that all rogues can "easily get off."

This isn't even a guess. You can watch it happen in realtime already, and it'll only get easier to survive with gear.

It sounds like you've been too easily swayed by your 1v1 interactions alongside all the crying happening on the forums by people who watch pikaboo kill 1200 rated people in skirms.

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It’s already been nerfed once and it will again, you’re literally the first rogue I’ve met that’s actually defending it.

I'm a resto druid main, try again.

[LordVargK]

You are talking 1v1 in open world. There is no place to run and hide in arena you know that. And you are not alone in arena you know that also. So what the fuck is the complaint here? That you could supposedly get hurt by a rogue while questing? And the class should be nerfed for that? And we are supposed to discuss this shit seriously?

Yes, I know that. I even wrote, that they might be fine in other content than 1vs1. And rogues don't necessarily need to be nerfed, but I think with the removal of the trinket function from the PvP talents coupled with the effective reduction of health pools in relation to burst through the squish it was a mistake to keep long, spamable CC in the game. It's more of a complaint that stunlocking is not a fun mechanic. Rogues are just the worst offenders here, not necessarily the problem.

[DechCJC]

Of course there's more counterplay to rogues "2 shotting" in 3s... Unless your teammates are braindead. Which brings me back to my original point of watching good players easily survive this "2 shot" that all rogues can "easily get off."

This isn't even a guess. You can watch it happen in realtime already, and it'll only get easier to survive with gear.

It sounds like you've been too easily swayed by your 1v1 interactions alongside all the crying happening on the forums by people who watch pikaboo kill 1200 rated people in skirms.

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I'm a resto druid main, try again.

You know what? I disagree. We’ll see if Blizzard does too in the coming weeks. My opinions are personal and I’ve only quoted the videos as evidence to others.

[Mozu]

You know what? I disagree. We’ll see if Blizzard does too in the coming weeks.

(They do)

Yes, Blizzard thought the same thing about sub in bfa too and that worked out very well. Clearly Blizzard (and the other 1200 rated players who share your type of thinking on this topic) know what's best for arena.

[DechCJC]

Yes, Blizzard thought the same thing about sub in bfa too and that worked out very well. Clearly Blizzard (and the other 1200 rated players who share your type of thinking on this topic) know what's best for arena.

Getting a bit prickly in these last few posts, aren’t we?

[Mozu]

Getting a bit prickly in these last few posts, aren’t we?

Perhaps - I'm a bit tired. Sorry about that.

[DechCJC]

Perhaps - I'm a bit tired. Sorry about that.

Wow, don’t think I’ve ever had an apology on these forums.

Just for that, I redact everything I said and I now hope sub gets buffed.

[HCLM]

Rogue main here: How does one become immune to all cc, cause if I'm caught with my trinket on CD, I can get stunlocked and turned into dead by a feral or DH in 2.3 seconds.

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=31224/cloak-of-shadows

you're welcome.

[Jamais]

This is just a repeat of every expansion and this nerf has a good chance to, again, ruin MM hunters for an entire expansion.

The nerf was justified for this moment.
The major issue however is that in about 3-4 weeks from now this nerf is no longer needed and blizzard will not undo it.
At that point there is a good point that MM will again be a sub-par spec.

Without the option to do some burst with Aimed Shot, MM really has very little going for it.
I really hope that blizzard will look at classes again in a few weeks, but I'm 99% sure this change will not be undone or compensated for.

What?

In 3-4 weeks, MM damage will increase aswell, due to gear and unlocking conduits.

BTW, even now, hunters will just switch to Explosive + Double Tap RF, which deals MORE dmg the Double AiS, but not in 1 second so you will need to secure the burst window - as it should be.

Burst is MM main point, but it is not the only thing which made it more pvp viable.

Binding Shot being baseline (root does not break on dmg) and Tranq Shot are the reason. Especially tranq shot, dispelling Alter Time or BoP is invaluable - and we even get some focus for doing it. It just requires fast reaction - it is applied last, so if you are fast, it will get dispelled asap.

Resonating Arrow is also amazing and it already gave me lots of satisfaction using it to finish enemies or to counter burst behind pillar.

Yes MM is a bit squishy (but it can avoid a lot of dmg if played properly), but you should have teammates and that pvp legendary is looking strong.

I am no expert MM player by any means, but i would trust Dillon and people in his league on this.

[TrollHunter3000]

One spec being OP doesn't mean your spec isn't OP

Sub had a whole expansion of being non-viable, MM didn't

Uhhhh what? Literally no one played MM in BFA

[fear]

If every class was buffed up to the level of Sub Rogues the game would be complete and utter garbage. Of course nobody decent at the game wants that to happen because it wouldn't be fun or skill based at all. Sub Rogues are currently the least skill based class in the game, making everyone else like that would be horrible.

So you didn't like mop?

[Rucati]

Thats why they teach math in school so people don't write such nonsense. Or perhaps they ll teach you next year. Yep school will get harder mate. For now stop simmin rogues in heroic dungeon and quest gear because all you get is wrong data that you can't interprete anyway. Lets discuss this again mid S1.

What are you even talking about.

They currently burst for 100% of people's health. They could burst for 70% of people's health and they would still be more than fine... Do you not understand how numbers work or...?

So you didn't like mop?

Not too sure what part of MoP is relevant to this conversation honestly. People didn't get killed in 2 seconds in MoP.

[kosajk]

I don't think so, you seem to think so and thats why you come here to complain against being outplayed by a skilled player using a class that is your 100% counter and asking for nerfs. Well breaking news: All classes have their complete counter. You can also have your skill counter aka a class you could beat but you can't because you are not skilled enough, you can have gear counter aka classes that you could kill but outgear you and you can have the perfect storm aka a class that is your counter played by someone better than you.

So exactly what is your point when you ask for nerfs so you can catch up? You are thinking pvp in terms of a duel outside SW. Ofc its someone else's job to kill the hunter while you take cover. Not sure why you felt the need to insult me for stating the facts. Do not let your sense of entitlement get you killed in pvp.

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I read this kind of shit x16 years and sadly it actually has an effect on devs because they prefer to shut mouths instead of following logic and this ends up with classes hitting like wet noodles while others become OP once gear scales to a normal average level.

You can actually tell who doesn't know the game by who's complaining during the first two weeks when everyone is on their quest greens and blues.

m8 times of rock < paper < scissors in wow are long gone (like 6 expansions now)
before shaman was ben counter to casters, casters have ben counter to platers and platers to leather users :P
atm rogue could and probably still can kill anything beside tank in stunlock, hunter can shoot anyone beside tanks in 3 globals from range that is more than absurd for most classes.
Only thing that counter rogues is DH with his cd, only thing that counter hunters is rogue (as it counter everyone) and maybe monk with his mobility,
glad that you don`t see problem and having fun killing ppls in ~3-4 shoots tho :P
When we get to point where mostly hunters and rogues playing bg`s maybe then you will see the problem yourself ;P

[fear]

Not too sure what part of MoP is relevant to this conversation honestly. People didn't get killed in 2 seconds in MoP.

Lol they did, but that wasn't even my point you said "If every class was buffed up to the level of Sub Rogues the game would be complete and utter garbage. Of course nobody decent at the game wants that to happen because it wouldn't be fun or skill based at all."

That's what happened in mop the dmg lvls and the toolkits all got buffed up for almost all classes while rogues got gutted lol. Or in your statement did you just mean burst dmg because a lot of classes can and have had that burst dmg before. I feel like you probably just don't remember that exp that well if you think burst wasn't insane in mop on pretty much everything. Another point to make with this is that healer's also had crazy burst healing to go with the crazy burst in mop.

Also unless somehow cheap shot (1gcd) mfd evis (1gcd) is killing someone it's more than 2 secs.

For the record I don't like the crazy burst dmg everyone is doing but I'll take that over 30min healer drain bs.

[DarkLoLNT]

just gonna use double tap - sniper shot or rapid fire lul