MM just got PVP nerfed

[Rucati]

Lol they did, but that wasn't even my point you said "If every class was buffed up to the level of Sub Rogues the game would be complete and utter garbage. Of course nobody decent at the game wants that to happen because it wouldn't be fun or skill based at all."

That's what happened in mop the dmg lvls and the toolkits all got buffed up for almost all classes while rogues got gutted lol. Or in your statement did you just mean burst dmg because a lot of classes can and have had that burst dmg before. I feel like you probably just don't remember that exp that well if you think burst wasn't insane in mop on pretty much everything.

Also unless somehow cheap shot (1gcd) mfd evis (1gcd) is killing someone it's more than 2 secs.

For the record I don't like the crazy burst dmg everyone is doing but I'll take that over 30min healer drain bs.

MoP was faster paced but no class had anywhere near the burst damage that Sub currently has, which is the problem. High damage is fine if it happens over a stretch of time, but Sub can currently do Cheap Shot -> Dance -> Symbols -> Echoing Reprimand -> Evis -> MfD -> Evis with Drestagath anywhere in there and kill someone from 100% health basically every time. That's 3 seconds to kill someone and they're stunned the whole time. If they trinket you can just Cheap Shot and then continue on and kill them in the DR stun anyway. The only classes you can't kill that way are ones with immunities.

The faster the game is the less chance there is for skill to matter. If a Rogue forces every single defensive from you every time they open there's no decisions being made, you're forced to react that way in order to survive. Dampening games are boring, and nobody likes 10+ minute arenas because the first 5-6 minutes don't even matter, but there's a good middle ground of games taking between 3 and 5 minutes where there's a lot of decisions to be made. And I think if Rogues get nerfed a bit we'll be there for basically every class, there's enough damage on casters and other melee to end games before dampening, but not so much that the game ends in under a minute.

[INVASMANIXOXOXO]

They should have nerfed the covenant not the conduit =\, a lot of rogues don’t even use the conduit. If you think Sub or pvp in general is fine right now you are being absurd... I’m not saying we should only have long dampener games, but there can be a middle ground.

Not only do I think sub needs a big nerf, but I think all pvp damage could use maybe a 15% nerf across the board... and we have landed in another patch where tanks are too good imo (not going to waste energy arguing with people over this, because you can still largely beat them in arena, but I disagree with a lot of peoples sentiment that tanks should win most 1v1s).

Like with the current state of sub I believe someone like pika could push 2k without having kidney shot keybound... waste of a keybind/combo points honestly lmao (slightly trolling here).


Also all the people saying gear will fix it: am I missing something, but doesn’t gear inflation usually make burst/damage higher relative to health pools? There are obviously exceptions, because people will stop using drest, but have they somehow made stamina in gear scale more than before? Because personally on my wind walker alt I’ve gained maybe 20-25% health since hitting 60, but my damage has probably close to doubled.

[Steelangel]

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=31224/cloak-of-shadows

you're welcome.

Does not help when stunned. If I pop cloak before I get stunned, that's one thing but if I am stunned I am dead if my trinket is on CD.

[Luxeley]

One spec being OP doesn't mean your spec isn't OP

Sub had a whole expansion of being non-viable, MM didn't

MM wasn't particularly viable in Pvp in BFA either.

[HCLM]

Does not help when stunned. If I pop cloak before I get stunned, that's one thing but if I am stunned I am dead if my trinket is on CD.

So are other classes, and they don't have your burst, defensives, AND they cant perm cc one target like rogue can.

But I see your point now, rogue is weak if u can't play it. Got it.

[RobertMugabe]

Btw, with this change, I'm done with the game itself until 9.1. Not really because of the nerf but because this nerf means I will have to pick up Explosive Shot, and I quite literally and positively have no more room for one more key in my comfortable key setup.

I'll come back in 9.1 when and if Blizzard come to their senses and actually buff BM so it's not be trash at PVP. Until then I have no reason to play WoW. Good thing Cyberpunk comes out in 2 days, just in time to keep me occupied.

If I am not mistaken, I remember you saying that you weren't going to even play 9.0 and yet you did. Unfortunately, you won't quit for real until 9.1

[fear]

Also all the people saying gear will fix it: am I missing something, but doesn’t gear inflation usually make burst/damage higher relative to health pools? There are obviously exceptions, because people will stop using drest, but have they somehow made stamina in gear scale more than before? Because personally on my wind walker alt I’ve gained maybe 20-25% health since hitting 60, but my damage has probably close to doubled.

Yea I dunno what people are thinking dmg is going to do nothing but skyrocket. People have only 1 conduit and like 2 soulbinds and no legendries and no mythic raid trinkets or gear. Dmg is only going to get more insane for everyone over time. As we could see from beta the difference in a fresh 60 and mythic ilvl with bis raid trinkets, bis leggo, and all soulbinds was about 40% difference in hp but about 200% difference in dmg lol.

Everything is going to be insane in a few months just like pvp was on beta.

[Greengrim]

Sub is fine, if you have to play piano to kill someone while being able to be stunned and 2-3 shot, you deserve to have something to show for your effort. Perhaps learn how to play against rogues instead of complaining and cheering for nerfs.

This is highly incorrect. Sub is just as broken as Ret and MM currently, if not even more. You can't kill platers in a single cheap shot man. That's not balanced, nor is it serious. Get real.

[FredFlintstone]

I agree Hunter was OP, but the nerf seems waaaay too extreme. Outside of their burst window, Hunter really isn't that strong esp. when they don't crit. I am as maxed out as possible in gear right now and non-crit aimed shots hit for 4k. Add that on top of the fact that MM esp. in arena has like no utility whatsoever. Leaving them with mediocre damage and no cc other than a snare and dispellable trap doesn't really sound viable. Compare that to rogues who have so much more survivability, damage and CC. But hey, hunter bad am i right?

[Steelangel]

So are other classes, and they don't have your burst, defensives, AND they cant perm cc one target like rogue can.

But I see your point now, rogue is weak if u can't play it. Got it.

You said, and I quote:

how to survive rogues that can burst you through your cds while being immune to all cc.

And I pointed out that a rogue that gets caught dies like a wet noodle.

But sure, you're the master.

[Fitsu]

Good. I was memeing with my Hunter but it was dumb how I could press double tap and aimed shot someone to 20% hp then just arcane/kill shot them.

Hunter could literally global someone from 50 yards away with a 1min cooldown and all you had to do was press 3 buttons.

[Skandulous]

You expect me to consider the status of the game in green and blue gear? Because I will not. It’s the usual complaint each and every expansion during the first 2-3 weeks, people complain about certain classes and of the devs don’t ignore them, said classes get destroyed and lose the S1.

Pretty sure this is what the people whining are trying to achieve here, get the upper hand against classes they have troubles with by saying “X is broken”. I have yet to see any data just stories like so I was lvl 52 and a rouge came and killed me”.

Sorry but I cannot validate such stuff. All I say is WAIT 1-2 weeks, see what happens and let’s discuss again. You will be surprised how gear scaling changes everything.

You'll be surprised how stamina scales so low on gear while damage stats scale much more higher. It's only gonna get worse unless they buff versatility

[Brocksley]

It's fine to have warriors, shaman, and rogues dropping repeated 5-10k hits, but if a hunter does it, it needs to be nerfed. You need to learn this.

[Greengrim]

You expect me to consider the status of the game in green and blue gear? Because I will not. It’s the usual complaint each and every expansion during the first 2-3 weeks, people complain about certain classes and of the devs don’t ignore them, said classes get destroyed and lose the S1.

Pretty sure this is what the people whining are trying to achieve here, get the upper hand against classes they have troubles with by saying “X is broken”. I have yet to see any data just stories like so I was lvl 52 and a rouge came and killed me”.

Sorry but I cannot validate such stuff. All I say is WAIT 1-2 weeks, see what happens and let’s discuss again. You will be surprised how gear scaling changes everything.

On the contrary, you said quote: "sub is fine" ... which was the exact point that I stopped doing whatever the hell else I was doing, and correct your utterly disgusting lie. Not sure what you discussed later on in the thread. If you admitted that rogue is BATSHIT BROKEN currently but will get balanced out with shortly upcoming gear then I extend an apology.

[shank687]

Btw, with this change, I'm done with the game itself until 9.1. Not really because of the nerf but because this nerf means I will have to pick up Explosive Shot, and I quite literally and positively have no more room for one more key in my comfortable key setup.

I'll come back in 9.1 when and if Blizzard come to their senses and actually buff BM so it's not be trash at PVP. Until then I have no reason to play WoW. Good thing Cyberpunk comes out in 2 days, just in time to keep me occupied.

If you are quitting the game because you have to bind one more key, sorry to say, you're not as good as you thought you were ( not good at all actually ). Yikes

[Molov]

If someone let’s themselves exposed to get hit multiple times at this amount it means they did not react after the initial warning blow and as such, deserve what they get.

Not necessarily, vs a rogue it's just that their trinket is on CD because they used it on the first cheap shot like 1 minute ago so they don't get globaled.

[iperson]

One spec being OP doesn't mean your spec isn't OP

Sub had a whole expansion of being non-viable, MM didn't

But mommmmmm! Timmy got icecream!

[kosajk]

Weird how this doesn't happen to r1/tourny streamers who do wargames against good rogues, only scrubs in skirms/bgs who don't know any better.

I'm sure you're multi glad though.

yea because you haven't seen stream with that or seen some classes that actually can bubble up from it in 1 sec it obviously means everything is ok for sure ;P
nerfs was been not needed at all and i don`t know where all that bad perception is coming from

It's fine to have warriors, shaman, and rogues dropping repeated 5-10k hits, but if a hunter does it, it needs to be nerfed. You need to learn this.

rogues got nerfed and it wasent been ok as they have big toolkit to warrant burst window will be used,
huntard also have stealth so getting 80% + hp taken before you see what even hit you is not to funny
about wariors and shamans especially it not that sweet imho and also survivability is not to high and range of the skills is also debatable + its also legendar effect with medium burst window

[msdos]

If I press Remorseless Winter, a Sub rogue can't deal damage anymore because they're rooted. Then after they break out of that, I can stun them for 5 seconds, then after chains them. I can basically shut down their damage entirely for 10 seconds if I want.

I can't shut hunters down at all, no one can. You either need to have them CCed or kill them immediately.

[Mozu]

yea because you haven't seen stream with that or seen some classes that actually can bubble up from it in 1 sec it obviously means everything is ok for sure ;P
nerfs was been not needed at all and i don`t know where all that bad perception is coming from

The top of the 3s ladder is nothing but warriors, ww monks, and wizards. Shocker! People on the forums have absolutely no idea how to gauge what is actually too strong and what is just them not being able to play correctly.