As I feared a few minutes after Covenants were announced....it will get worse

[Chucknourishlol]

I don't know about other classes but for rogues the difference between covenants is night an day. Its not even about performance, its about having cool skills that do damage or crap skills that tick every 3 seconds for nothing or give you haste after a kill when you might not even need it anymore. On top of that I think the secondary skills are totally unbalanced as well for example the night fae movement is miles ahead of the venthyr movement ability, it's ridiculous.

I went Necrolord on my rogue and my buddy went Kyrian. Serrated Bone Spike out performs his ability in damage on bosses and I'm positive the 7-13% agi buff I get when I cast it and 2% buff for nearby players (3 melee + tank) are benefiting more from than that than what he gets from Kyrian.

Kyrian is the play for PvP and trash mobs that die quick but honestly the SBS its a pretty good ability for bosses. Agi % buffs + ranged low energy combo point generator is very useful.

[barrsftw]

Kyrian is by far the most popular covenant for Ret Paladin despite not being the best PvE dps (Venthyr is). People will play what they want.

[sylenna]

over 75% of frost dks disagree with you, as they did not choose night fae which is when it comes to performance best... actualy, most (almost 40%) chosen necrolords, who are thematicaly best fit but worst when it comes to performance...

venthyr frost dk here. love the theme, love the abilities, still good in mythics even with worse gear.

but the rio kiddies will do what they always do.

[Chonar]

I can't remember the last time we had a 1% wipe cause of things other than personal failure.
When you do everything perfectly for your skill level and gear, and you still have 1% wipes, then you gotta start looking at stuff like this.
Any other situation, its a matter of GIT GUD.

[Malania]

Nope, not again. There's a video on this by Preach. Until further evidence is available we should let this one lie.

[Perkunas]

This is not the community for this thread. People in MMO-Champ are typically Blizzard bootlickers and will defend the vast majority of shitty decisions the dev team makes. As a Necrolord Marks Hunter I really wish they'd put the primary abilities on a talent row.

[Swnem]

Numbers change, looks don't (not in video games anyway). I wouldn't worry about it.

Erm... yeah, they don't. That is why it makes sense to pick what allows you to have fun now and change to the one with the mog you want at the end when power benefits go away.

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This is not the community for this thread. People in MMO-Champ are typically Blizzard bootlickers and will defend the vast majority of shitty decisions the dev team makes. As a Necrolord Marks Hunter I really wish they'd put the primary abilities on a talent row.

Pretty much this.

I have been pulling my hair for weeks trying to decide which toons to level so i can see the effin story and not be forced to pick an ability i don't want.
I still ended up with sub-optimal abilities in 2 toons cause it is basically impossible to get a good necrolord ability unless you are a shadow priest or unholy DK.
Struggled with Kyrian too, in my hunter, like you. The night fae ability is too good and inexplicably got buffed just recently. I don't like the kyrian one, but i needed a kyrian to see the story.

It's infuriating. I hate the covenant decision being tied to power/fun abilities.

[OMGTwitchTV]

So... let me make sure I am understanding this:

For the first time... in a LONG time... players are sacrificing NUMBERS just to enjoy themselves? It may be "gimping yourself" to some elitists, but it sounds like the folks who are having FUN with their covenants really don't give a damn. It's about people put their enjoyment above their min/max. Best expac to date in my opinion, and is slowly nudging Wrath out of my #1 favorite spot of all time.

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This is not the community for this thread. People in MMO-Champ are typically Blizzard bootlickers and will defend the vast majority of shitty decisions the dev team makes. As a Necrolord Marks Hunter I really wish they'd put the primary abilities on a talent row.

Or maybe some people just enjoy what they are doing since fun is 100% subjective, and you hate that they are in agreement with the game and the devs.

[Perkunas]

So... let me make sure I am understanding this:

For the first time... in a LONG time... players are sacrificing NUMBERS just to enjoy themselves? It may be "gimping yourself" to some elitists, but it sounds like the folks who are having FUN with their covenants really don't give a damn. It's about people put their enjoyment above their min/max. Best expac to date in my opinion, and is slowly nudging Wrath out of my #1 favorite spot of all time.

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Or maybe some people just enjoy what they are doing since fun is 100% subjective, and you hate that they are in agreement with the game and the devs.

Case in point... The wild "bootlicker" appears.

[Tyris Flare]

I love how everyone of these threads is just various people interpreting data to justify their world view, whatever that happens to be.

[Drusin]

I love how everyone of these threads is just various people interpreting data to justify their world view, whatever that happens to be.

Literally the entirety of the internet lol

[kaminaris]

So hold up a second here... getting ce doesn't mean much I've had it for 14 years now if you count before achievements I've only missed part of wrath.

You are also listing tiers cleared via split runs where the guilds in quest had technically 4-5 weeks worth of lockouts of loot in the first clear.

I agree being in the top ten often just means you are an above average raider with excessive amounts of time but to suggest covenants are not a big deal when even on the low end your looking at 10% damage difference seems disingenuous.

Take last tier can marksmen hunters kill mythic znoth? Yes if the entire group carries them. Can a mm hunter contribute in any meaningful way at all in the fight in terms of pulling his own weight? No of course not.

It's the same for this tier. Sure on paper you can do whatever you want so long as the group carrying you doesn't but your going to be very hard pressed to find a group willing to take you without offering millions of gold for a carry.

Dude, you completely missed the point.

Guild like method limit have shit gear when killing last boss. The time other guilds lets say 100+ gets to last boss, they are already overgearing it.
So no, it doesnt matter what covenant you chose when you are waaaay overgeared compare to guilds that first killed it.
No to mention your first problem to solve is skill cap.

[thunterman]

Screw the numbers, if your not a Vampy boi your doing it wrong.

[Sluvs]

doesnt the data kinda disprove the OP? I mean, according to the data, NF BLOOD DK is the best, but i choose venthyr because to me the idea is a little bit ridiculous. Although I did think about being Kyrian.

So far, it happened exactly as some people said, they picked based on what they liked.

But I would wait for WF and season to properly start before passing judgement, that is, if you care about that shit.

[Perkunas]

doesnt the data kinda disprove the OP? I mean, according to the data, NF BLOOD DK is the best, but i choose venthyr because to me the idea is a little bit ridiculous. Although I did think about being Kyrian.

So far, it happened exactly as some people said, they picked based on what they liked.

But I would wait for WF and season to properly start before passing judgement, that is, if you care about that shit.

No, the data is showing the vast majority of players even if they aren't hardcore raiders picking the covenant that has the best performance per WoWhead/Icy-Veins. I tried to not do that but holy shit am I kicking myself.

[Jazzhands]

So where's the part of the data that tells us why people picked what they picked? Not saying these numbers don't say a lot, but to address some of the biggest outliers: RP-wise Kyrian fit really well with paladin, Night Fae fit well with Druids, if those happen to also be the best for the class then there's likely a good amount of over-lap. Vengeance DH were the other one I saw, close to 80% or so went Kyrian, and well... All the vengeance DH abilities are shite, I was going to pick the one I liked best but they all suck flavor-wise and none of them were particularly fun or stood out, and I didn't feel an affinity for any of the covenants, so why not go with the best?

[Krakan]

Dude, you completely missed the point.

Guild like method limit have shit gear when killing last boss. The time other guilds lets say 100+ gets to last boss, they are already overgearing it.
So no, it doesnt matter what covenant you chose when you are waaaay overgeared compare to guilds that first killed it.
No to mention your first problem to solve is skill cap.

Define shit gear?

Usually they have full mythic with heroic pieces for the few odd slots they dont. In the case of znoth they had better gear then everyone else for months since the corruption was nerfed afterwards and the cloak didnt come close to how powerful that was.

What weird meme makes you think top guilds are undergeared? They might not be bis but that is a hell of a long way from undergeared.

[Malix Farwin]

doesnt the data kinda disprove the OP? I mean, according to the data, NF BLOOD DK is the best, but i choose venthyr because to me the idea is a little bit ridiculous. Although I did think about being Kyrian.

So far, it happened exactly as some people said, they picked based on what they liked.

But I would wait for WF and season to properly start before passing judgement, that is, if you care about that shit.

Quite the opposite actually. For example Affliction warlock the best Covenant is Night Fae with Kyrian being a close second. 57% are Night Fae. 26% are Kyrian while the two Covenants that are closest to Warlocks thematically and what you would expect at least a strong representation in are 10%(Venthyr) and 5%(Necrolord) respectively. At best cases people have about 2 options but in most cases theres only one.

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Define shit gear?

Usually they have full mythic with heroic pieces for the few odd slots they dont. In the case of znoth they had better gear then everyone else for months since the corruption was nerfed afterwards and the cloak didnt come close to how powerful that was.

What weird meme makes you think top guilds are undergeared? They might not be bis but that is a hell of a long way from undergeared.

He means every other guild that isnt world first gear up in mythic gear over time. World First clear in bare bones gear because they are trying to clear stuff in the first week. So yes they are doing these fights undergeared.

[Krakan]

Quite the opposite actually. For example Affliction warlock the best Covenant is Night Fae with Kyrian being a close second. 57% are Night Fae. 26% are Kyrian while the two Covenants that are closest to Warlocks thematically and what you would expect at least a strong representation in are 10%(Venthyr) and 5%(Necrolord) respectively. At best cases people have about 2 options but in most cases theres only one.

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He means every other guild that isnt world first gear up in mythic gear over time. World First clear in bare bones gear because they are trying to clear stuff in the first week. So yes they are doing these fights undergeared.

Except there not... they are doing them maybe one or two pieces less then those that clear. Yes that adds up on a per raid level especially trinkets and weapons but it's not some colossal difference till it hits thing like cloak levels

[Lolites]

doesnt the data kinda disprove the OP?

it does, but op and some other people here dont have mental capacity to understand that, or are wilingly lying, who knows