First raid overall difficulty?

[kamuimac]

Raid nerfed in barely 24 hours.

Desperate attempt to save anything that is left

but with Cyberpunk premiere today they are doomed anyway even if they nerfed that place by 50 %

wait 2-3 more days for even more agresive nerfs to normal / hc

will be hillarious to watch this fiasco

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Because those people need to progress else where first. What do you expect to happen to people who are 20 to 30 ilvl behind the loot that drops?

im expecting those pople to unsub since the gear "elsewhere " is 155-164 itlv with very occasional 177 from callings and limited amount of 184 from m0 :0

ah you mean mythic + - people who raid normal are not people who are doing mythic + in first place

[Kumorii]

Overtuned is better than undertuned. People went in with the idea to skip normal even with gear changes and plenty of people didn't even craft their legendary because bis drops from raid. That alone should make normal more attractive to start with to get the leggos for people who need as well as gear to make HC easier.

[Blackmist]

Balancing on the first tier is always a crap shoot.

We started on normal and I'm surprised how rough it is. You can normally just pew through without worrying too much about mechanics, but this time it actually seems to be trying to prepare you for heroic somewhat.

We've got 30 players in there as well, so it's rather crowded on some encounters. Even the first boss ends with the floor covered in shit. For the kind of players normal is aimed at, even when they have more gear, this is probably too much. We'll see.

[Magneto]

So, are there any representative posts of normal to heroic raiders that wanted raids to be more challenging? or is it just the pseudo achievers coming out of the woods to get their monthly fix of looking down on others because thats the only thing making them happy? please dont judge me!

[apelsinjuice]

normal raiding should not be that tightly tuned, heroic should be for more semi serious/organised raiding group with people that min/max somewhat, read guides, know how to play ther spec etc

both pretty high dps and healing checks + the very punishing mechanics in even normal that pretty much insta kills you

[JoakimB]

Is it just me, or why are people complaining about "overtuned"? We have what, not even 190 ilvl or something? Something I miss? We go in in blue almost and expect it to be oneshots?

[apelsinjuice]

Overtuned for sure. Most bosses also have a ridiculous amount of mechanics.

yes it keeps increasing every raid/expansion

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Regardless of if the raid is indeed overtuned or not, it's honestly kind of hilarious how many people are in here acting all tough when they're apparently not good enough for Heroic or Mythic raiding. If you have to stoop to crying 'Yess normal is hard, finally a challenge!' then chances are you're in no position to be puffing up your chest and preening over the 'scrubs' who are just 'too stupid' to do the raid. I swear you people are the absolute worst parts of the community.

yes even limit best guild in the world was not tough enough for hc and gave up before the initial nerfs came in

[Kuja]

I tried a pug group and we got 3 bosses down on normal. Most wipes occurred on second and third boss. First boss only took one wipe. People started leaving after wiping a bit on the fourth boss.

Now if no one attacked the mob during boss 2 that needs to be cc'd and remembered to cc, we would have saved about 40 minutes. Always someone fucking that part up.

[ryjkur]

It's not overtuned if people are raiding it with 180 ilvl. Raid is meant to have some weekly progress that gets easier every single reset because your raid ilvl grows.

I don't understand how people can't get this. If your HC guild is stuck at 7/10 HC, 4/10 HC or whatever on first week you'll surely kill new bosses on next reset. Remember, the first raid probably lasts 6 months and you expect HC guilds to be done on first reset?

[Gorsameth]

Is it just me, or why are people complaining about "overtuned"? We have what, not even 190 ilvl or something? Something I miss? We go in in blue almost and expect it to be oneshots?

People who clear Mythic raids can normally come into Normal in dungeon blues and clear it in short order.
Because its not balanced around their skill level and its not supposed to.

If the top players are struggling in Normal the people for who Normal is intended are in big big trouble.

[craigw]

i killed 6 bosses last night on normal in a complete pug. huntsman was a joke. 2 shot it.

[Gasparde]

M'uru says hi and most of Funwell if we're being honest. The golden days of shit not being cleared in a day.

I'm obviously not talking about the tuning of a single difficulty hyper-endgame boss from like more than a fucking decade ago. If we ignore SoO and start with WoD as the first proper normal/heroic flex + mythic expansion, Nathria is an incredible outlier in terms of tuning - not complication-wise, but the kind of everything hitting you for half your HP every other second outlier that just didn't exist over the last like 6 years.

[OrcsRLame]

i killed 6 bosses last night on normal in a complete pug. huntsman was a joke. 2 shot it.

They nerfed normal and heroic yesterday fyi. https://www.wowhead.com/news=319801/...ia-raid-tuning

Not sure why mmo-champ doesn't have the hotfixes listed. Sludgefist still a brick wall for most.

[VinceVega]

Hello!

So I have a guild which was active for Anthorus and Uldir, but with BFA we got a lot of people leaving the game.

With Shadowlands out some of them came back and we were wondering if we would creat a roster for the first raid but we would like to take it really casually with only 10-12 people in raid.

So I was wondering what is the difficulty of the raid overall? I remember Argamar being a pain in the ass with 10 people because we couldn’t control the add properly (not enough CC in the raid).

So what do you think?

Hard, easy? A boss in particular that would be a pain with only 10 people?

O love it. We were 11/12 Mythic in Nylotha. Now we can acutally progress beteween the difficulties.
Granted for PuGs it is probably to hard unless they have very good coordination/lead.

But then again... imho raids should not be tuned around PuGs.

[apelsinjuice]

sludgefist normal is still incredible healing and dps check

[Gorsameth]

O love it. We were 11/12 Mythic in Nylotha. Now we can acutally progress beteween the difficulties.
Granted for PuGs it is probably to hard unless they have very good coordination/lead.

But then again... imho raids should not be tuned around PuGs.

Normal, previously known as Flex is meant as a pug/group of friends level difficulty tho.

[VinceVega]

Normal, previously known as Flex is meant as a pug/group of friends level difficulty tho.

I wrote "imho".
Also group of friends can organize in a guild.

And yes normal is MAYBE to hard for now(!!!!). But it is the firts day. everyone is massivly underequipped. In two weeks PuGs will clear it without difficulty.
Just because it is supposed to be easy does not mean it should be a handout. And normal in BfA was laughable easy. Normal Nylotha was so easy you could ignore half the mechanics and jsut go full braindead mode on the boss. Clear first day by nearly every pug i have seen.
Most progressed into heroic in the first week.

Now you have to work a little bit. Really not even hard. Just a bit. It is still doable. Just not in one day.

[Vampyrr]

I wrote "imho".
Also group of friends can organize in a guild.

And yes normal is MAYBE to hard for now(!!!!). But it is the firts day. everyone is massivly underequipped. In two weeks PuGs will clear it without difficulty.
Just because it is supposed to be easy does not mean it should be a handout. And normal in BfA was laughable easy. Normal Nylotha was so easy you could ignore half the mechanics and jsut go full braindead mode on the boss. Clear first day by nearly every pug i have seen.
Most progressed into heroic in the first week.

Now you have to work a little bit. Really not even hard. Just a bit. It is still doable. Just not in one day.

Pugs will never clear this without difficulty. Not only is gear an issue but there are a LOT of mechanics to keep track of and no amount of gear will let you ignore that. Pugs will struggle with the current iteration until next tier if it is not adjusted. (I am saying pugs not organized groups who play with each other and know what they are doing)

[VinceVega]

Pugs will never clear this without difficulty. Not only is gear an issue but there are a LOT of mechanics to keep track of and no amount of gear will let you ignore that. Pugs will struggle with the current iteration until next tier if it is not adjusted. (I am saying pugs not organized groups who play with each other and know what they are doing)

Every boss can be outgeared. At some point you can nearly ignore mechanics EXCEPT insta death stuff like the DPS check on Sludgefist and Artificer.

They will clear it. 100%. Just missing gear. And it will not happen this week.

If someone only want to get through the raid without any effort LFR is there for them.

[Darkke]

Every boss can be outgeared. At some point you can nearly ignore mechanics EXCEPT insta death stuff like the DPS check on Sludgefist and Artificer.

They will clear it. 100%. Just missing gear. And it will not happen this week.

If someone only want to get through the raid without any effort LFR is there for them.

Obviously PUG will be able to clear it at some point. But their point was that PUG will not be able to clear it when it's relevant content, and I 100% agree with that. There's no way your standard PUG will clear the normal raid with <200ilvl gear if it stays as it is now. Even organized guild groups with full 184+ gear are struggling with it.