Rescue Jaina from Torghast??

[Trollokdamus]

Who cares about this "threat", just another fodder for 30 mouthbreathers in LFR.

Imagine being on a story forum and saying "Who cares about the story?".

[Lolites]

Genn was punished "in advance" by his Kingdom being a blighted ruin, people homeless refugees and his son dead. He only became a thing because of what horde did to him. Those dwarves are all dead, since Cata. Jaina was sent to Hell by her mother and only survives because Alliance Hero rescued her. For a dozen elfs who resisted arrest? Fitting enough.

dozen elfs? sure repeat that lie often enough and maybe at least you will believe it... as a player you killed more doing q there, so lorewise its surely hundreds... but that was punishment for betraying her father (sure she had good reason for that) and had nothing to do with dalaran, so yeah, worst impact dalaran had for her was Varian telling her "bad Jaina" like if she just took a piss on his carpet...

genns punishment for stormheim was literaly nothing, despite the fact it was technicaly war crime (atacking in time of truce), and against direct order from his king...
sure he had reason, but so did bombing theramore or atacking teldrasil, so i guess those are fine too?

and yeah, those tauren are dead since cataclysm, and STILL nobody was punished, nobody even seems to care... btw i didnt know genocide (or mass murder given that you prefer to hide reality behind better sounding words) have limitation period... but then, genn had no reason to atack in stormheim, as siege of gilneas ALSO happened in cataclysm...
see how your bias is showing? kiling tauren is moot as it happened in cata, atacking horde in time of truce is fine bcs of something that happened in cata...

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This is never communicated to Horde characters though. Jaina never apologises, makes amends, or even comments on any of her actions during her Horde-hating phase.
Constantly saving her as a Blood Elf player when she literally launched a pogrom against your people and hasn't even mentioned it since is far worse than saving Thrall as Alliance: if the worst you can say about him is what he threatened to do while in a mad rage as opposed to what he has actually done, you got off easy.

pretty much this, this always made me laugh how biased people are to defend alliance
Jaina did ethnic cleansing? well thats fine, she was mildly scolded... but did you hear what Thrall SAID?! BURNH HIM AT STAKE!!!

[leggomydairy]

Save Jaina? I thought she got eaten by a frog

[VladlTutushkin]

dozen elfs? sure repeat that lie often enough and maybe at least you will believe it... as a player you killed more doing q there, so lorewise its surely hundreds... but that was punishment for betraying her father (sure she had good reason for that) and had nothing to do with dalaran, so yeah, worst impact dalaran had for her was Varian telling her "bad Jaina" like if she just took a piss on his carpet...

genns punishment for stormheim was literaly nothing, despite the fact it was technicaly war crime (atacking in time of truce), and against direct order from his king...
sure he had reason, but so did bombing theramore or atacking teldrasil, so i guess those are fine too?

and yeah, those tauren are dead since cataclysm, and STILL nobody was punished, nobody even seems to care... btw i didnt know genocide (or mass murder given that you prefer to hide reality behind better sounding words) have limitation period... but then, genn had no reason to atack in stormheim, as siege of gilneas ALSO happened in cataclysm...
see how your bias is showing? kiling tauren is moot as it happened in cata, atacking horde in time of truce is fine bcs of something that happened in cata...

General and the army who did Taurajo (which btw wasnt a "massacre", most of massacring was done by quillboars and the plant monsters in the Overgrowth) are gone. General dead and his corpse hanging from the tree near the road and army either killed or entirely routed and fled.
And no, Genn and Gilneas are not equal to Theramore or Teldrassil. Horde had zero reason to quarrel with him other then a bare faced land grab but they also managed to turn that into a gruesome warcrime fiesta and created their own worst nemesis in Genn who previously was a King of Staying Inside and Not Going Anywhere.
And Purge of Dalaran was retconned into "a few died while most were put in Violet Hold and released some time after SoO".

[Verdugo]

Imagine being on a story forum and saying "Who cares about the story?".

Maybe if the big bad didnt always turn out to be boring.

Or if the game had good story in general.

[Tharivor]

She literally came to conclusion that her Dad was wrong and basically killed himself by "bigotry" and spat on all her previous motivation. She went through "mindfuck hell" and saw her entire life as one huge line of mistakes. Thats about as much as Saurfang did.

Are you referring to the cinematic with no mention of Dalaran where the main point is Jaina forgiving herself for her personal failure with Arthas and her father?
Not sure that is in any way comparable with Saurfang openly stating that what he did was wrong and then launching a war against the rest of the Horde to make amends.

Not that I really want to be defending Saurfang's about-turn: I'm well aware its quite unsatisfying from an Alliance POV given the lack of long-term consequences for the Horde and the fact everyone seems ready to forgive him just because he feels sad. But I'm just saying at least the narrative is explicit that the War of Thorns was "bad" and that the Horde was "bad" for going along with it, and that the Saurfang feels sorry for participating.
Jaina's actions on the other hand never get addressed. She returns to her peace-loving inertia but the main thrust of her story is that her dad was wrong and she needs to stop blaming herself for stuff that happens; not that the Purge was wrong and not that she should feel sorry for doing it (in fact its the opposite- she supposed to stop feeling bad about anything she has done).

[VladlTutushkin]

Are you referring to the cinematic with no mention of Dalaran where the main point is Jaina forgiving herself for her personal failure with Arthas and her father?
Not sure that is in any way comparable with Saurfang openly stating that what he did was wrong and then launching a war against the rest of the Horde to make amends.

Not that I really want to be defending Saurfang's about-turn: I'm well aware its quite unsatisfying from an Alliance POV given the lack of long-term consequences for the Horde and the fact everyone seems ready to forgive him just because he feels sad. But I'm just saying at least the narrative is explicit that the War of Thorns was "bad" and that the Horde was "bad" for going along with it, and that the Saurfang feels sorry for participating.
Jaina's actions on the other hand never get addressed. She returns to her peace-loving inertia but the main thrust of her story is that her dad was wrong and she needs to stop blaming herself for stuff that happens; not that the Purge was wrong and not that she should feel sorry for doing it (in fact its the opposite- she supposed to stop feeling bad about anything she has done).

And Alliance supposed to stop feeling bad about it being repeatedly brutalized by the horde and left bloody and broken only to forgive and forget and wait for another backstab or a crushing blow for which they will not be ready (because plot reasons). As i said - you either let go of Dalaran or Alliance should start picking up their grievances and they will have far more of them and those will be far worse then a beatdown on Sunreavers.

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Maybe if the big bad didnt always turn out to be boring.

Or if the game had good story in general.

You seemed to enjoyed it until the genocide part ended. It looks so, at least.

[Lolites]

General and the army who did Taurajo

and i do not talk about taurajo at all...
Bael Modan or whats the excavation in barrens called is on a place stonespire tribe used to live until dwarves came and almost wiped them (we know about 4 survivors from a whole tribe)
but even the taurajo, your argument was it hapened in cata so did gilneas so thats moot, and hence Genn had no reason to go agains DIRECT ORDER and COMMIT WARCRIME - breaking truce (not like theres any reason excusing warcrimes even if we consider why he did it)

and things like burning vulperas or zandalari shopkeepers is fine i gues, but god forbid horde using plague.... bcs fire is better somehow...
both alliance and horde did horrible things, thing is horde at least try to punish those who did it, alliance dont even mention it and if someone brings it up "well horde did worse"...

whatever, had enough of your biased bullshit... ill just ignore you, not like i will miss your fairy tales about "good alliance", i prefer to see them for what they are - hypocrites

[Tharivor]

Genn was punished "in advance" by his Kingdom being a blighted ruin, people homeless refugees and his son dead. He only became a thing because of what horde did to him. Those dwarves are all dead, since Cata. Jaina was sent to Hell by her mother and only survives because Alliance Hero rescued her. For a dozen elfs who resisted arrest? Fitting enough.

Did you play during MoP? The Purge was literally a pogrom- with the entire largely civilian Blood Elf population of the city being either imprisoned or killed (and we know civilians were killed because you get literal quests to kill shopkeepers and a guy trying to get his money out of the bank lol). She didn't even just exile them, she actively ordered that their escape routes be cut off so that their possessions could be siezed and the whole populace imprisoned.

And she doesn't even get sent to hell for that- she gets sent to hell because her mother is angry she killed her father. When she feels bad about Dalaran (not that she killed civilians mind you- that she failed the Kirin Tor) she is even assured that its ok because "reason alone cannot dictate all of your choices".

[huth]

If we're Night Fae, we have to help Bwonsamdi who is still the high loa of a Horde-allied country and deals with evil people like Hakkar for power. Even if we're not Night Fae, we have to help him save all his troll souls in De Other Side if we want the lootz.

At least he makes it clear he's aware you might not be terribly happy about his actions. But treat it as casting down Mueh'zala with the rest just being collateral. Can't have a servant of the Jailer run(well, float) around freely.

[VladlTutushkin]

Did you play during MoP? The Purge was literally a pogrom- with the entire largely civilian Blood Elf population of the city being either imprisoned or killed (and we know civilians were killed because you get literal quests to kill shopkeepers and a guy trying to get his money out of the bank lol). She didn't even just exile them, she actively ordered that their escape routes be cut off so that their possessions could be siezed and the whole populace imprisoned.

And she doesn't even get sent to hell for that- she gets sent to hell because her mother is angry she killed her father. When she feels bad about Dalaran (not that she killed civilians mind you- that she failed the Kirin Tor) she is even assured that its ok because "reason alone cannot dictate all of your choices".

As i said - get over it or Alliance will not get over genocide.

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and i do not talk about taurajo at all...
Bael Modan or whats the excavation in barrens called is on a place stonespire tribe used to live until dwarves came and almost wiped them (we know about 4 survivors from a whole tribe)
but even the taurajo, your argument was it hapened in cata so did gilneas so thats moot, and hence Genn had no reason to go agains DIRECT ORDER and COMMIT WARCRIME - breaking truce (not like theres any reason excusing warcrimes even if we consider why he did it)

and things like burning vulperas or zandalari shopkeepers is fine i gues, but god forbid horde using plague.... bcs fire is better...
both alliance and horde did horrible things, thing is horde at least try to punish those who did it, alliance dont even mention it and if someone brings it up "well horde did worse"...

whatever, had enough of your biased bullshit... ill just ignore you, not like i will miss your fairy tales about "good alliance", i prefer to see them for what they are - hypocrites

Lol. Another horde clown pretending that he is a victim while calling Alliance "hypocrites". If we were that bad, your hides would be tanned with a whip, as proper. But they are not like that, so forgiveness and friendship it is. Oh and Bael Modan? All dead now. Fortress? Blown up.
And Horde broke post-MoP peace treaty at Ashran when they initiated hostilities and yet Alliance didnt started a world war over it.

[Lolites]

Did you play during MoP? The Purge was literally a pogrom- with the entire largely civilian Blood Elf population of the city being either imprisoned or killed (and we know civilians were killed because you get literal quests to kill shopkeepers and a guy trying to get his money out of the bank lol). She didn't even just exile them, she actively ordered that their escape routes be cut off so that their possessions could be siezed and the whole populace imprisoned.

And she doesn't even get sent to hell for that- she gets sent to hell because her mother is angry she killed her father. When she feels bad about Dalaran (not that she killed civilians mind you- that she failed the Kirin Tor) she is even assured that its ok because "reason alone cannot dictate all of your choices".

give up, you cant get through his alliance bias, believe me i tried...
Thrall said something bad (actualy not even thrall, part of his severed spirit) nad thats horrible thing, alliance can literaly commit pogrom and its all fine bcs they felt bad about it for two seconds

[VladlTutushkin]

give up, you cant get through his alliance bias, believe me i tried...

"Uwaaaah! Why dont he just give up and admit that horde is so good and Alliance is bad!"
Piss of, you are the useless one here.

[Florena]

We are back in "we have to work together to save the world" territory. That place we go to every expansion after a brief "the war totally matters for realz this time" interlude.

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IKR. Sylvanas covers the entire city in plague but that is probably something the Sylvanas apologists don't want to be confronted with.

It would have been hilarious if she'd won the battle outright, broken the alliance siege and then just awkwardly had the city rigged to explode with plague but no need to set it off. Which to be fair she almost did because apparantly the Alliance stormed in with zero plan to counter the plague at all and had to have the tide turned by Jaina showing up unexpectedly.

[Tharivor]

And Alliance supposed to stop feeling bad about it being repeatedly brutalized by the horde and left bloody and broken only to forgive and forget and wait for another backstab or a crushing blow for which they will not be ready (because plot reasons). As i said - you either let go of Dalaran or Alliance should start picking up their grievances and they will have far more of them and those will be far worse then a beatdown on Sunreavers.

Honestly, when Alliance players have to help Garrosh or Sylvanas out of the Maw then I'll see the equivalence. Thrall wasn't even an active part of the Horde during any of the Alliance' grievances, and I don't think even you can argue that Baine of all people is a pro-Horde warmonger. Meanwhile Blood Elf players get to save the very women who unrepentently ordered ethnic cleansing against them.

[VladlTutushkin]

It would have been hilarious if she'd won the battle outright, broken the alliance siege and then just awkwardly had the city rigged to explode with plague but no need to set it off. Which to be fair she almost did because apparantly the Alliance stormed in with zero plan to counter the plague at all and had to have the tide turned by Jaina showing up unexpectedly.

Another dumbing down of an entire faction to glorify sylvanas - coming to Plaguetown without any plan, countermeasure or defense against plague.

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Honestly, when Alliance players have to help Garrosh or Sylvanas out of the Maw then I'll see the equivalence. Thrall wasn't even an active part of the Horde during any of the Alliance' grievances, and I don't think even you can argue that Baine of all people is a pro-Horde warmonger. Meanwhile Blood Elf players get to save the very women who unrepentently ordered ethnic cleansing against them.

When Alliance commits a genocide against the horde and inflicts equally gruesome casulaties on them, then gets away with that and all the blame is placed on one person then we talk. And no, Alliance wasnt even close to mangling horde as brutally as horde does when fighting Alliance.

[Tharivor]

When Alliance commits a genocide against the horde and inflicts equally gruesome casulaties on them, then gets away with that and all the blame is placed on one person then we talk. And no, Alliance wasnt even close to mangling horde as brutally as horde does when fighting Alliance.

I must have missed the post where I argued that the Alliance "mangled the horde as brutally as horde does when fighting Alliance"...

If you have trouble reading I was making a point that having a Blood Elf player constantly save Jaina when she still hasn't apologised for punitively killing and driving Blood Elf civilians out of Dalaran is rather jarring.

Saying "B-but Horde genocide!" isn't really relevant, unless Alliance players are being asked to save Horde genocidists from the Maw as well, which afaik is not the case since of the Horde characters they save one wasn't even part of the Horde at the time and the other is a known peacenik.

[Depakote]

What about us saving Baine? Or Thrall? Makes 0 sense either as Alliance players.
It's just cause of gameplay.

Why does it make no sense?

[Raisei]

Lore-wise only Alliance players get Jaina out right?

I mean we Horde players Orcs, Trolls and Blood Elves saving her from that place is pretty wierd.
Zandalari players that serve Talanji makes really 0 sense. And for Blood Elves you can also question them getting her out after her Dalaran bloodbath.
Forsaken lost their home and city large part was her doing, and Orcs trusted her with Theramore being neutral and they attacked again in Cata.

Maybe it is just me but as a Horde player if one Alliance character deserves hell its Jaina.

Consider it a small part of your penance for supporting the undead abomination that is now trying to destroy reality. If it wasn't for Jaina you would have already been fed to the Maw. Jaina deserves hell? Only if it is a hell-worthy offense to believe that the Horde will ever change.

[VladlTutushkin]

I must have missed the post where I argued that the Alliance "mangled the horde as brutally as horde does when fighting Alliance"...

If you have trouble reading I was making a point that having a Blood Elf player constantly save Jaina when she still hasn't apologised for punitively killing and driving Blood Elf civilians out of Dalaran is rather jarring.

Saying "B-but Horde genocide!" isn't really relevant, unless Alliance players are being asked to save Horde genocidists from the Maw as well, which afaik is not the case since of the Horde characters they save one wasn't even part of the Horde at the time and the other is a known peacenik.

And Jaina didnt inflicted enough harm on you to warrant any compensation further then she already went with her being a key figure in ending Fourth War and returning to her peacemonger state. Neither Garrosh nor Sylvanas ever had a shred of peace-making in them and always antagonised and hated Alliance in all situations they encountered them. Aside from Broken Shore... BUT as we know now she was in cahoots with Jailer already so she was merely "lying low".
And yes, genocide matters. Get over Dalaran or there will be reckoning for War of Thorns and you dont want that comparison.