Naxxramas progression thread

[Kralljin]

Yeah pugs clearing wotlk naxx week 1 is a bit of an exaggeration but vanilla naxx and wotlk naxx are practically different instances.

Naxx 10 was an absolute joke and was most certainly clearable by an average pug at that point in time.

Naxx 25 was a bit harder but there the real challenge was more like getting 25 people at Maxlevel which also have a modicum of Heroic Dungeon gear.

[Akka]

Is it fair to say that this current version is easier than Naxx when WOTLK launched? At this that lasted a bit longer.

Is this a joke or the usual hyperbole ?

Naxx in WotLK was massively easier.
My casual guild in WotLK, where maybe a third of the raiders actually understood what was theorycrafting, went in with 18 people the first night we had enough people at 80, most of them in quest green, and we cleared two entire wings. Remember : the very first night we could, with people who never, ever set foot in Naxx, with questing gear.

[Ten15]

Is this a joke or the usual hyperbole ?

Naxx in WotLK was massively easier.
My casual guild in WotLK, where maybe a third of the raiders actually understood what was theorycrafting, went in with 18 people the first night we had enough people at 80, most of them in quest green, and we cleared two entire wings. Remember : the very first night we could, with people who never, ever set foot in Naxx, with questing gear.

The best guild in the world cleared classic WoW in how long exactly from entering?

Did it not take much longer for the best guilds to clear WOTLK Naxx?

[WaltherLeopold]

The best guild in the world cleared classic WoW in how long exactly from entering?

Did it not take much longer for the best guilds to clear WOTLK Naxx?

The best guilds in classic are several tiers better than the best guild from x expansion, until you reach like wod/legion

Just like how the best guilds in retail are several tiers better than their older selves from past expansions.

[Nemyhlol]

As a player with the Immortal and Undying titles and having now cleared 15/15 in the first week, WotLK naxx was no where near as difficult as it is on classic. Consumables aren't a suggestion on classic, the raid basically demands it. Frost resist gear AND/OR forming raid comps specifically around Saph is a requirement where it wasn't in WotLK. Other than looking the same and the bosses having the same abilities the tuning couldn't be further apart.

[Skandulous]

As a player with the Immortal and Undying titles and having now cleared 15/15 in the first week, WotLK naxx was no where near as difficult as it is on classic. Consumables aren't a suggestion on classic, the raid basically demands it. Frost resist gear AND/OR forming raid comps specifically around Saph is a requirement where it wasn't in WotLK. Other than looking the same and the bosses having the same abilities the tuning couldn't be further apart.

Of course one was tuned for 40 players and the other for 25

[Akka]

The best guild in the world cleared classic WoW in how long exactly from entering?

And ?

Did it not take much longer for the best guilds to clear WOTLK Naxx?

Are you daft or what ?

People in Classic were prepared well beyond people in WotLK (because obviously people in WotLK had to, you know, LEVEL UP FIRST once the race started, while people in Classic had all their time to farm whatever they needed and started the race with already BiS and full consummables), they trained much more (because private server and PTR) and they benefit from Blizzard being too much of a dumbfuck to remove WB in raids (leading to their characters being able to stack gazillions buffs which amount to overgearing the raid by two to four tiers).

Did you even try to think or did you just grasp the first straw you saw to hang from it with both hands ?

[Nerobit]

And ?

Are you daft or what ?

People in Classic were prepared well beyond people in WotLK (because obviously people in WotLK had to, you know, LEVEL UP FIRST once the race started, while people in Classic had all their time to farm whatever they needed and started the race with already BiS and full consummables), they trained much more (because private server and PTR) and they benefit from Blizzard being too much of a dumbfuck to remove WB in raids (leading to their characters being able to stack gazillions buffs which amount to overgearing the raid by two to four tiers).

Did you even try to think or did you just grasp the first straw you saw to hang from it with both hands ?

Does it make you feel like a big boy insulting others on the web?

All of this is just a big pile of crap. People from both sides are missing a huge pc of the puzzle. Can Classic be as hard as vanilla...sure, play it on dial up, be new at mmo's, use an old pc with a 13" monitor don't use any of the new add ons, dc in mid fights and just play it like it was back then. It doesn't matter if some ppl find it hard now or not. There are different skill levels and different likes. Grow the hell up and let ppl enjoy what they want.

Retail for some is easy, for some it is maybe even fun...Is it harder for others, sure but who cares. It is a childish argument to try an prove OPINIONS. That is all this is because there will always be different skill levels, different opinions and you will always butt hurt someone who thinks their fucking opinion means more then yours.

Let me clear something up real quick here....NO ONE GIVES A FUCK ABOUT YOU AND YOUR OPINION.

Play what you want at what level you want and have fun.

[Akka]

Does it make you feel like a big boy insulting others on the web?

All of this is just a big pile of crap.
Let me clear something up real quick here....NO ONE GIVES A FUCK ABOUT YOU AND YOUR OPINION.

Pot, meet kettle.
And irony, because your post is (accidentally) full of it.

[arkanon]

Does it make you feel like a big boy insulting others on the web?

...

NO ONE GIVES A FUCK ABOUT YOU AND YOUR OPINION.

Oh sweet, sweet irony. Surely you understand this is not a great look, right?

[mmocfd1b0ab5a3]

To all people who said "Naxx was hard even at lvl 70 in TBC" whats your opinion now?

[Heathy]

the same, being level 70 doesn't automatically prevent you from failing at dancing on hiegan, or moving to the correct polarity side on thaddius, or not chaining frozen tomb into multiple ppl on kelthuzad. at 70 you still can't soak endless amounts of marks on 4h and will have to move from add to add to let them drop off still. being a higher level isn't going to let you ignore parts of the fight that will simply either 1 shot you, or one shot multiple other ppl in the raid.

[TJ]

To all people who said "Naxx was hard even at lvl 70 in TBC" whats your opinion now?

"was" It WAS hard at level 70 because the players weren't as good and had nowhere near the same knowledge as today. I don't recall people preparing for 15 years at the time of first Naxx release.

Naxx is definitely a massive step up from MC/BWL/AQ, but anyone that thought it was going to last more than a few hours was living in a dream world.

[mmocfd1b0ab5a3]

"was" It WAS hard at level 70 because the players weren't as good and had nowhere near the same knowledge as today. I don't recall people preparing for 15 years at the time of first Naxx release.

Naxx is definitely a massive step up from MC/BWL/AQ, but anyone that thought it was going to last more than a few hours was living in a dream world.

Not really, I did many pugs back then and warriors were even tanking Razuvious while bosses just melted. DPS was 2-3x amount what players do in Classic.

[Echo of Soul]

Meanwhile only 3 guilds in the entire world has cleared heroic Castle Nathria. I wonder how many (if any) Classic guilds would manage that. Mythic is definitely out of our reach that's for sure. That shit is proper difficult, too difficult I'd say. Hundreds of guilds clearing Naxx week 1 is sadly way too easy in my book, it was a huge let down.

[Kralljin]

Meanwhile only 3 guilds in the entire world has cleared heroic Castle Nathria.

It seems to me that Blizzard royally fucked up their tuning.

No Heroic raid within the past 6 years did not fall within the first day and now Blizzard magically changes their formula?
I think that they fucked up the tuning when they nerfed all the covenant shenanigans.

Unless there comes any confirmation that this the intended difficulty for heroic, i think more people are now simply being subject to what the World first raiders call "live beta testing".

[TJ]

Meanwhile only 3 guilds in the entire world has cleared heroic Castle Nathria. I wonder how many (if any) Classic guilds would manage that. Mythic is definitely out of our reach that's for sure. That shit is proper difficult, too difficult I'd say. Hundreds of guilds clearing Naxx week 1 is sadly way too easy in my book, it was a huge let down.

It's 15 years old, what did you expect? They couldn't add any extra difficulty to it because it is what it is with no changes.

[arkanon]

It seems to me that Blizzard royally fucked up their tuning.

No Heroic raid within the past 6 years did not fall within the first day and now Blizzard magically changes their formula?
I think that they fucked up the tuning when they nerfed all the covenant shenanigans.

Unless there comes any confirmation that this the intended difficulty for heroic, i think more people are now simply being subject to what the World first raiders call "live beta testing".

From what I have seen and experienced normal is even worse than heroic. Yes, obviously heroic is harder and yes, obviously more guilds have cleared normal than heroic. However, when we take into account the intended audience of Normal......I mean some mythic guilds literally threw their hands up and bailed on normal because it was putting up way too much resistance, and instead decided to trudge away in heroic.

Heroic is typically down in a few hours on day one by multiple guilds, and many dont even bother touching normal (depending on ilvls etc, some will on the first raid of the xpac).

[Echo of Soul]

It's 15 years old, what did you expect? They couldn't add any extra difficulty to it because it is what it is with no changes.

True, but considering that less than 1% of the playerbase did it 15 years ago it's brand new content for a large portion of the playerbase. Yes the tactics are known ahead of time but that's true of any raid that has been released in the last 10 years so for most people it's the exact same prerequisites going in to Naxx as it is going in to castle nathria.

[Relapses]

True, but considering that less than 1% of the playerbase did it 15 years ago it's brand new content for a large portion of the playerbase. Yes the tactics are known ahead of time but that's true of any raid that has been released in the last 10 years so for most people it's the exact same prerequisites going in to Naxx as it is going in to castle nathria.

Did you forget about level 80 Naxx? I'd wager a fair portion of the people playing Classic likely also played WotLK so even though Naxx-60 is different it's not really fair to call it "brand new content."

That said, I don't think comparisons between retail and Classic are particularly fruitful. They existed before Classic was even a thing. And the conversation always goes like this, "Classic raiding was hard because {x reason}" followed by an immediate change of tune once it's plainly clear that isn't the case, "well wait until {next raid/expansion} because it's actually hard" then, once that is proven not to be the case, "well obviously people have been practicing this content for decades on private servers, nobody actually expected this to be challenging," at which point they go right back to the first excuse.