Night Fae now definitively the best for MM now?

[Happychild]

Just reading the wowhead MM guide:

https://www.wowhead.com/guides/marks...nt-shadowlands

and about a week ago Night Fae and Kyrian were essentially tied for best. I check the guide today, and Night Fae is definitively the best now? Any idea what changed exactly? I've been running Kyrian, and am now wondering if it would be worth to switch to Night Fae.

[aceperson]

probably that 25% buff blizz gave to nf when they fixed the double mastery scaling?

[Happychild]

probably that 25% buff blizz gave to nf when they fixed the double mastery scaling?

Hunter
Marksmanship
- Fixed an issue where Wild Spirits (Night Fae ability) was benefitting from the damage increase of the mastery stat twice.
- Damage of Wild Spirits has been increased by 25% for Marksmanship Hunters.

This I guess?

[Nythiz]

Just reading the wowhead MM guide:

https://www.wowhead.com/guides/marks...nt-shadowlands

and about a week ago Night Fae and Kyrian were essentially tied for best. I check the guide today, and Night Fae is definitively the best now? Any idea what changed exactly? I've been running Kyrian, and am now wondering if it would be worth to switch to Night Fae.

Not much changed on that front. They are still quite equal.

I think Moofzy just altered the guide to be a bit more black and white, because saying: "They are roughly even" always gets people asking: "Yeah, but which is better?"

NF slightly edges out Kyrian in 90% of the situations. Especially in any kind of AOE situation.
Kyrian can be equal or slightly better in pure single target and another few niche situations.
Either is completely fine, it will have less impact than wrong gearing choices or messing up the rotation will have on your dps.

probably that 25% buff blizz gave to nf when they fixed the double mastery scaling?

No that was actually a tiny nerf. The 25% buff was to offset the damage lost by the mastery fix, but it fell slightly short.

[Rine]

This topic drives me up the wall.

They have NEVER been close, it was never a competition. Night far wipes the floor with kyrian by an embarrassing margins.

The only way one is closer to the other is if you remove the nightfaes niya soulbind. That mastery buff is what makes wildspirts top tier.

You may argue that they are close because of the above statement, but they are not because if kyrian had a soulbind that leveled the playing field that would have been considered.

Let's put this to bed please.

[Nythiz]

This topic drives me up the wall.

They have NEVER been close, it was never a competition. Night far wipes the floor with kyrian by an embarrassing margins.

Euu, but they are ?
That's why there is a whole pro's and con's section dedicated to it on Icy Veins.
Kyrian is actually still slightly ahead in pure single target fights, but since nearly everything is AoE and since most things benefit more from a stronger CD every 2 min than a slightly less stong one every minute, the choice for Night Fae is edging out.

The only way one is closer to the other is if you remove the nightfaes niya soulbind. That mastery buff is what makes wildspirts top tier.

Pelegos is nearly as good, if not better in some situations.
Kyrians get a 350 mastery buff too from their soul bind.
Plus their soul bind gets 2 potency conduits in the best situation, where Niya gets 1 (as the last tier you have to pick Niya's Burrs and that gives endurance conduit.

You may argue that they are close because of the above statement, but they are not because if kyrian had a soulbind that leveled the playing field that would have been considered.

Let's put this to bed please.

Not sure what you're on about, they are quite close and you can go either way if you have a strong preference.
Kyrian is better in a few situations (PvP, pure single target fights) and night fae is better in 90% of the other situations, but not by a ton.

[Rine]

Euu, but they are ?
That's why there is a whole pro's and con's section dedicated to it on Icy Veins.
Kyrian is actually still slightly ahead in pure single target fights, but since nearly everything is AoE and since most things benefit more from a stronger CD every 2 min than a slightly less stong one every minute, the choice for Night Fae is edging out.



Pelegos is nearly as good, if not better in some situations.
Kyrians get a 350 mastery buff too from their soul bind.
Plus their soul bind gets 2 potency conduits in the best situation, where Niya gets 1 (as the last tier you have to pick Niya's Burrs and that gives endurance conduit.



Not sure what you're on about, they are quite close and you can go either way if you have a strong preference.
Kyrian is better in a few situations (PvP, pure single target fights) and NF is better in 90% of the other situations, but not by a ton.

This is why I hate this discussion. to begin Ive been theory crafting hunter data since few years before female dwarf is was a thing. Im not saying that to brag but as a point of reference.

I know icyveins has come a long way but even hearing them used as a point of argument in a theory crafting debate... lets just say they are unreliable on the finer points of everything.

While the gap is closer in single target as stated above this is not a contest, NF wins period.

Look for yourself
https://imgur.com/a/LNuetrI

There's a single target breakdown

[Huanak]

kyrian was far better than Night Fae before their nerf soundbind on release, this result both are equal for single target and similar for aoe in term of simc dps.

then after release blizzard fixed double mastery bug result 1-3% nerfed to Night Fae depend on your mastery.

now there is another major bug make Night Fae much stronger atm, this bug cause by aim shot + legendary dot trigger double damage from Night Fae ability.

this should be bug because blizzard already fixed similar bug in beta so expect fix soon.

overall Night Fae is very stong now with aim shot legendary, once it fixed then kyrian will 1-3% stronger again, plus kyrian's 25% crit scale better with future gear while Night Fae is raw damage which will scale slower.

[Eapoe]

All these discussion about NF vs Kyrian happening and I’m just laughing at the fact that Blizzard will probably do something to Venthyr to make it OP on the last raid tier.

[KrayZ33]

All these discussion about NF vs Kyrian happening and I’m just laughing at the fact that Blizzard will probably do something to Venthyr to make it OP on the last raid tier.

Or people will laugh/cry because they will do nothing.
Since this is hunter specific and not something everyone has to deal with, I wouldn't dare to bet even a dime on a proper adjustment in any direction.
It's not like underperforming specs get the attention they need, even more unlikely that underperforming soulbinds or covenants will get it, which is probably affecting even fewer players.

That being said, and slightly off-topic but still relevant to the Night Fae ability

How does SVs Legendary that drops additional small cluster bombs interact with it?
Do they each trigger an additional attack?

[Eapoe]

Or people will laugh/cry because they will do nothing.
Since this is hunter specific and not something everyone has to deal with, I wouldn't dare to bet even a dime on a proper adjustment in any direction.
It's not like underperforming specs get the attention they need, even more unlikely that underperforming soulbinds or covenants will get it, which is probably affecting even fewer players.

Even as a Hunter specific covenant issue, there will be changes/adjustments at some point. A big enough nerf to NF or Kyrian has a chance to put one of the others in the lead.
Also, wasn’t there a post that Blizzard put out about Venthyr that they are looking into it to either find a way to buff it or rework it to make it more appealing? I personally haven’t seen it; but if a post like that does exist, and knowing Blizzard, it will probably get a rework or big buff at some point in the final raid tier.

[KrayZ33]

Even as a Hunter specific covenant issue, there will be changes/adjustments at some point. A big enough nerf to NF or Kyrian has a chance to put one of the others in the lead.
Also, wasn’t there a post that Blizzard put out about Venthyr that they are looking into it to either find a way to buff it or rework it to make it more appealing? I personally haven’t seen it; but if a post like that does exist, and knowing Blizzard, it will probably get a rework or big buff at some point in the final raid tier.

Dunno,

it was pretty appealing before they nerfed the ability itself by like 66% or something.

But whatever Blizzard says, it's as reliable as a candle against the wind tbh.

edit: and another thing, there is basically nothing to laugh at because if Venthyr gets OP, everyone will just switch to Venthyr if they care for performance.
Transmog-fans are the guys who will suffer the most from OP/undertuned covenants.
Changing covenants by itself is a joke and not a problem at all, you can easily top 2-3 covenants at the same time.
Renown is farmed up to the current cap very quickly. But you lose all your transmogs (not really "lose", but you can't use them until you rejoin your covenant).

[Jackstraw]

I feel Resonating Arrow allows for more creative gameplay, especially in a M+ environment. Fae gives damage, Kyrian gives less damage but more flexibility.

I guess it comes down to the type of content you play and how much of the available content you tackle in your playtime.

[Teucer]

I feel Resonating Arrow allows for more creative gameplay, especially in a M+ environment. Fae gives damage, Kyrian gives less damage but more flexibility.

I guess it comes down to the type of content you play and how much of the available content you tackle in your playtime.

Like you said, progression raiding, NF will win out almost every single time due to how much burst it can put out on demand. There may be some fight timings that favor Kyrian but I don't think thats the case currently in Castle, and you can rely on other class CDs to burst down those instances anyway.

Very high keys in M+ may win out with Kyrian due to its shorter CD and LOS ability. A lot of dungeons don't let you plan your route around CDs. Sanguine depths for example, you fight the same strong pack multiple times in a row.

[Eapoe]

Like you said, progression raiding, NF will win out almost every single time due to how much burst it can put out on demand. There may be some fight timings that favor Kyrian but I don't think thats the case currently in Castle, and you can rely on other class CDs to burst down those instances anyway.

Very high keys in M+ may win out with Kyrian due to its shorter CD and LOS ability. A lot of dungeons don't let you plan your route around CDs. Sanguine depths for example, you fight the same strong pack multiple times in a row.

There is only 1 fight I know of where Kyrian lines up with a good damage phase, and that’s on Sludgefist who breaks a pillar and takes increased damage every time minute. The issue is that NF still lines up for 2 pillars and possibly still breaks even, if not pulls ahead.

The issue in m+ is there are very few times you need to LoS something, or that it even is able to be used. The only time I can really think of is the robots in DoS where you need to LoS their Haywire ability. Other than that, I suppose if you can find spots to run and hide behind during some casts it could be beneficial, but the problem with that is a player has to be smart as (for example) a week or Grievous where you might have the bleed on you and you LoS the healer as well as the mobs and die from it. There’s just too few points in PvE where the ability to ignore LoS is present, or even a benefit, where it can truly shine.

[Sondrelk]

The NF ability will definitely be nerfed first thing come next patch. Even if it works as intended no ability should be dominant in all cases like that ability is.

Though even with that I suspect that over time the Kyrian one will likely end up being the best, mostly because of the short cooldown and that straightforward damage buffs tend to scale well over time unlike ones that do a set amount of damage, even if that damage scales with attack power.

I doubt Necrolord will ever be that good though. The simple fact that it restores Focus will make balancing it on its own damage near impossible

[sunxsera]

The NF ability will definitely be nerfed first thing come next patch. Even if it works as intended no ability should be dominant in all cases like that ability is.

I think the same - right now the dmg is just insane in m+ / big aoe enviroment and it needs to be addressed.

[tru]

The NF ability will definitely be nerfed first thing come next patch. Even if it works as intended no ability should be dominant in all cases like that ability is.

Though even with that I suspect that over time the Kyrian one will likely end up being the best, mostly because of the short cooldown and that straightforward damage buffs tend to scale well over time unlike ones that do a set amount of damage, even if that damage scales with attack power.

I doubt Necrolord will ever be that good though. The simple fact that it restores Focus will make balancing it on its own damage near impossible

Why should it be nerfed vs the other covenants buffed?

Don't get me wrong they have a lot more shit to focus on vs hunters with NF esp when there is more op stuff live. Give options not just make everything suck. If NF is nerfed necro and venth are still horrible options