Why is everyone in such a freaking hurry?

[Greyvax]

what's the opposite of rushing? taking snack and bio breaks every 5 minutes? then stopping in between pulls to share memes and sit around a campfire chatting?

people do dungeons to complete them, not for a prolonged social experience.

[rrayy]

My point is that going smarter and under control is always most effiecent. However its super boring.

Going faster and under control is more efficient. Getting the run done in 10 minutes is far more efficient than getting it done in 15-20 minutes.

[anoneemous]

As much as I get what you're saying, taking out the timer will mean groups will just use invis pots to skip trash and reach the end, probably even skipping bosses that don't block the pass to the rest of the dungeon. Back in MoP days challenge mode didn't require killing trash and so everyone had to use invis pots to skip them

I'm not following...% will still be required for completion and loot. Youre just not locking the key because groups can't do it in time.

[PrimiOne]

I'm not following...% will still be required for completion and loot. Youre just not locking the key because groups can't do it in time.

In the scenario you describe groups will use Hero/huge cooldowns on every trash pack to ensure no one dies wicj will lead to "Trash pack cleared...see you in 9 minutes: go watch Netflix".

M+ can reward you the best gear in the game: people will do ABSOLUTELY anything needed to achieve that even if it is 2.5 hours Necrotic Wake.

[Avengerx]

Imho the "problem" is multi layered. As many have said previously, people just don't have the same tive available as they did 10-15 years ago, myself included. If we can do an instance X minutes faster then sure, go for it. Also, they might either be leveling up an alt and hurry to get geared or have already done that instance tens of times and just want to get through with it. And also because of m+ mentality.

[anoneemous]

Again, I dont see a problem. If you want to spend hours in a dungeon to stay under a death threshold because you otherwise wouldn't be able to do it...you are becoming super inefficient. Your argument makes no sense.

By your description, you're saying its broken if a group spends 2.5 hours completing an 8 they normally wouldn't be able to plus?

My opinion on fixing myth+ hurts no one and benefits the players that normally cannot time a myth +. Who cares if the casual gamer who normally can't do myth+ has a chance at completing a myth 10 which is enjoyable for them?

The elite still have achievements, gear at the +14 level. Remember, by my method you cannot plus and myth 10 unless you do it in time. This goal is to only help those who are unable to get to the +10 level under current restrictions.

Again -

Torghast like death count with no timer that can be triggered when entering myth+ key.

If you choose to forgo the timer, you need to stay under a harsh death option. (Let's say 5 deaths) so 1 group wipe. To get a +1, much easier 20 or 25 deaths.

You cannot plus a key above a 10 without doing the timer, you also don't have the option to forgo the timer at 10 or higher.

You also cannot gain the second piece of loot unless you succeed in keeping death count below one group wipe.

All this does is let the casual less skilled players have a chance at getting into the 8s 9s 10s of the myth+ world.

Torghast is a perfect example, some players cannot solo it regardless of class, they form groups and take an excess amount of time to finish. They enjoy this, it grants them completion in content they normally would not ever see.

Personally on my arms warrior, I've yet to see any trouble at all in torghast, I thought this week was 3x easier then last week.

We personally have social guildies that would love to try a higher key and not feel rushed. I think this provides that for them without affecting the game in any negative way.

[PrimiOne]

Again, I dont see a problem. If you want to spend hours in a dungeon to stay under a death threshold because you otherwise wouldn't be able to do it...you are becoming super inefficient. Your argument makes no sense.

Inefficient? In a few weeks people will do M+ just for the Great Vault. Period. So you need just one run to access the best gear in the game.

It is inefficient to spend 3 hours to get a piece that you could not dream to get in any other way? Not at all...this is not about spamming M+ to get titanforges...this is about a situation where your skill/gear/dedication leaves you no other option but spend 3 hours in a dungeon to get that gear.

But anyway the main thing here is that you understand this is not my argument (not a fan of timers): it's Blizzard's and the vast majority of M+ players. Feel free to make a poll and you'll see how popular your solution is.

[Mr. Smith]

what's the opposite of rushing? [...] stopping in between pulls to share memes and sit around a campfire chatting?

You say this jokingly, and I'll preface this by saying that I'm aware that I'm no longer part of WoW's target audience, but what you're describing here was basically the ideal dungeon running experience for me. I much prefer overcoming a slow, methodical challenge with downtime between pulls to talk about the next pulls, strategize, or yes, joke around.

Consider that (Non-M+) dungeons are static content. Beat them once, you've beat them a dozen times. And once you actually have beaten them a dozen times, the only way that content changes is because of the different people you'll run the content with. IMO, the interactions you have with people are the most important parts of a dungeon, because they're the only things that can make your brain spark after running it for the umpteenth time, and I think it's a failure on the part of the game designers that most dungeons don't encourage communication any more. Without that element of socialization, you're just endlessly replaying a level you've memorized front to back with a bunch of glorified bots, which is boring at best, and maddening at worst.

Granted, none of this is a problem if you exclusively run with friends/guildies, I just think it's a shame that rushing through dungeons tends to discourage interacting with your party members and making new friends.

[vitor210]

I'm not following...% will still be required for completion and loot. Youre just not locking the key because groups can't do it in time.

thats even worse!! Now you're saying people HAVE to kill trash, with no timer, which means you want people to kill 1 pack, drink/eat, kill the next pack, drink, etc?? With no timer? what would be the incentive in that? No one wants to do that, that sounds way too much "Classic" for retail. People would figure out the fastest way to clear it in the most efficient way possible, thus ruining the entire purpose of your sugestion to not includde a timer

[Sughs]

Join a RP server and guild, OP. Lul.

Seriously, you can look around the dungeon after it ends. I also like to explore when a new expansion hits but you gonna do those dungeons dozens of times, you will see it all. You can even solo normals easily at the end of a tier.

[Malania]

Gear also plays a part. When you over gear content as a tank it's pretty dull since there's no challenge in it. Adding another pack can up your interest. Same for healers and dps. More to hit, more to heal. Makes you feel like the content isn't pointless to you. But that's just me.

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This is why I haven't run as a healer in dungeons since WoTLK. Not worth the stress.

You were one of the Cataclysm crowd crying about the heroics being too difficult weren't you

[TheFirstOnes]

Telling others how to play a video game is what is really more creepy tbh... (also 'creepy'? Really?)

Who gives a shit how somebody prefers to play their video games. The point, if you all can recall, is to have fun. Some people have fun going through stuff quickly in order to 'get it done'. Who are you to give a shit how somebody else plays, never mind actually thinking your opinion should hold weight for them.

What I say isn't supposed to hold weight on it? I just find it weird how people rush shit. There's no fun in rushing the game, imo. Yet you, somehow, assume I'm telling people how to play? Yeah, I said people should take their time, but that's not me telling them how to play. I just find it creepy how you rush a game, yet complain about it soon after cause "OH NO, I LOST ALL MY CONTENT" (even though PVE and PVP are still a factor, but still).

And yes. I find it creepy. Is there an issue? Want me to put it in caps so you can understand what I say better? I don't get why you're whining to me about some minimalistic thing I said, and are acting like I'm so god damn dictator. Stop it.

"Who are you to give a shit how somebody else plays" Because actually playing the game and not rushing through the content to get the best shit in the game is, actually, something a lot of players take seriously. Especially when STREAMERS do it. Why do you think people hated it when Asmongold rushed through the leveling to get some "realm first" achievement he didn't even get, instead of, ya know, actually play the game and enjoy the leveling content, etc?

Idc about your small minded view of things. The fact remains that people get pissed when people complain about having no content to play, and how "OH WOW, SL IS GOING TO PROVIDE SO MUCH CONTENT", only to then rush the shit and complain again for "SuM goD ForSAKen ReASOn". Shit's hypocritical. And it's funny how they do this 2 WEEKS BEFORE SEASON FUCKING 1!!!!

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Join a RP server and guild, OP. Lul.

Seriously, you can look around the dungeon after it ends. I also like to explore when a new expansion hits but you gonna do those dungeons dozens of times, you will see it all. You can even solo normals easily at the end of a tier.

Ok, I know you were joking about the guild, but that is actually true. Trust me, I'm in this really great guild in fucking MoonGuard. And I've never had more fun playing the game. On god.

[TheFirstOnes]

That's almost sig worthy tbh

I'm not telling them "Hey, you must play slower!" though? I'm saying "Players should take their time", but they don't have to...

What are you not getting?

[arkanon]

That's almost sig worthy tbh

To be fair, if I tell someone that imo, they should play what they enjoy rather than whats the top of the charts, thats not me telling them they HAVE to do that - just what i think they should do. Opinions are opinions though, everyone has them.

I guess its the difference between a recommendation, and a requirement.

[Tesshin83]

Speak for yourself.
Some of us prefer to have a good game experience for a few weeks and then stop to do something else, rather than a mediocre time wasting experience spread over two years.

Then please dont play this game in that process by screwing other people over.

[Powerogue]

Probably because wow is 16 years old so we're all old AF and probably have jobs. I had to give up raiding because my wrists were cramping too badly from all those years of gaming.

[Phobetor]

What do you want the tank to do, RP walk around so people can look at the trees?

For a change

[arkanon]

...or it's creepy no yeah I gotcha

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I was more playing onto the fact that he said people that don't play how he sees fit (aka "not taking their time" as he put it) are creepy. It's a weird word to go to when describing a different playstyle than your own. There are contextual clues in that specific word usage wouldn't you say that would lead somebody to believe it's more than just 'friendly advice' as you would suggest?

Do you go around telling people they are creepy for playing what is topping the charts? Idk was just weird.

Hey yeah dude, to be fair i wasnt trying to start a whole thing, so if i missed some contextual clues thats entirely on me for not reading further back. As a rule, if i have an opinion on something i feel like sharing, ill click back 2-3 replies to try and avoid these situations, sometimes i miss something. Yeah calling someone "creepy" or any other insult for wanting to either go slow/fast is kinda...........creepy.

I guess as the law says, speed is relative, so whats REALLY fast for one person is a boring slog for someone else. And thats kinda been my point from the start - i dont focus on "speed" and i CERTAINLY dont focus on "chain pulling" in SL with the aoe caps, but when tanking (90% of the time) i do a couple of modest pulls with small break between the first two packs (few seconds), and if all is well i increase the speed and in some cases pull size until i have to use cooldowns, and then tone it back a bit.

As a rule, i also do NOT do any range skips early in the expac, because there is a 99.9999999% chance one dps hasnt done it / isnt aware of it and will pull, and that usually results in multiple packs getting pulled, so typically, i try to keep things pretty vanilla (classic?) and boring, and just focus on efficiency and playing well, allowing the healer to dps if they choose.

Now, high lvl M+ is an entirely different beast, where expectations change. You might get some slack in LFR as a tank not knowing the fights, but you try even a heroic run without knowing and you are gonna have a bad time. Same goes for routs / skips / strats in M+. Once you start reaching the higher ends of your skill / gear, you are expected to know what to do. Sometimes thats a +10, sometimes its a +27, it just depends. But i was coming at this from a normal / heroic / m0 PoV as when this thread was created, thats all that was out.

Creepy............what a strange choice of words..........

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What do you want the tank to do, RP walk around so people can look at the trees?

Sure, because my car can only go 1km/h or 200km/h, thats the rules. And i change straight from 1st to 5th, nothing in between. Terrible logic.

[OMGTwitchTV]

Speak for yourself.
Some of us prefer to have a good game experience for a few weeks and then stop to do something else, rather than a mediocre time wasting experience spread over two years.

You are laboring under the misconception that I was speaking for everyone. I am a part of the casual playerbase, and every casual I know is of the same opinion. As for "stopping to do something else", you should thank the rest of us for staying subbed and helping fund your new content

[TheFirstOnes]

...or it's creepy no yeah I gotcha

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I was more playing onto the fact that he said people that don't play how he sees fit (aka "not taking their time" as he put it) are creepy. It's a weird word to go to when describing a different playstyle than your own. There are contextual clues in that specific word usage wouldn't you say that would lead somebody to believe it's more than just 'friendly advice' as you would suggest?

Do you go around telling people they are creepy for playing what is topping the charts? Idk was just weird.

If you're not going to actually refute my points, then quit quoting me.

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Also, I find it creepy because people do this, despite the fact that, prior to that, they were complaining about wanting to "play the game for the content! FOR THE EXPERIENCE!" etc, etc.

It's creepy because this is the fanbase that plagues our game, and this portion of the fanbase is very vocal on shit, and therefore Blizzard is more likely to listen to their hypocritical needs, That's why it's creepy.

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Wanna keep whining over what I say on a fan forum? Or?