Is Classic too easy?

[Mosha]

I think you don't know what the word objectively means. Success in PvP is getting the gear. Everyone can do that. The fact that terrible players that you can farm makes PvP a joke. You can't do that in pve. You actually have to kill bosses. PvP is spamable, raiding isn't.

Wait, you can't get gear in pve by doing nothing? I'm sorry? World quests, lfr, mythic dungeons? None of these ring a bell for you?

Also, success in pvp is not getting gear lol it hasne't been like that in a very very long time. If you want gear, you pve, that's how it is. Pvp's success is your rating, and getting titles and mounts. Everyone who knows pvp knows this, this sounds like the words of a 1500 hero.

[arkanon]

The best pvper and a random 2200 player will not achieve the same thing in pvp. The top success in pvp is being at the top certain % of players in order to get rank one and get your title. The top success in pve is clearing the raid.

Completely wrong in every possible way. The top success in pve is getting a world first, not clearing a raid. Are there degrees of success below that? Absolutely - And PvP is the same - the success scales from "best in the world" to "cleared the raid" to "got the best gear available" to "achieved what I wanted" etc etc.

[anon5123]

The lack of addons telling you what to do

Anyone who claims that addons weren't a thing in 2005 is just outing themselves as someone who never actually played in 2005.

[arkanon]

Anyone who claims that addons weren't a thing in 2005 is just outing themselves as someone who never actually played in 2005.

Yeah im always so confused by these statements. I didnt run any addons day one, but had plenty installed long before I hit 60, and it was the same for the people i know and whom I played with. Maybe there was an element of the community who were completely oblivious to the existence of these addons, but some of them were so strong they had to be nerfed over the coming years.

[Heathy]

there wasn't much in the way of healing assist addons, and dbm didnt really exist, you have CT_raid that could spam white text raid warning on the screen. like 'deep breath!!' or some other warning.

I didn't start using healbot until fathom-lord karathess in tbc I just manually targeted ppl and pressed the keybind, there was an addon for healing that put buttons next to ppls party frames so it was kinda like healbot or a healing assist addon, but an extremely alpha version of the idea. iirc it was called benecast.

but there was no weak auras and actual timers afaik. I don't really use many weak auras, if I play a druid I like to have a hot tracker, and my warrior has an average mana of healers weak aura but thats mostly it. there is a lot more robust addons today than there were.

when it came to addons there were quite a few that changed things action bar mods, unit frame mods like xperl, CT_Raid was kinda mandatory at the time the raid frames were extremely popular because the game didn't have any? I remember they patched some raid frames in but they weren't exactly better than CT_raids raid frames, but I remember getting compilations of addons, the one I used was called insomniax. it was just easier to use these compilations rather than try to download individual mods that probably had severe compatibility issues back then. trying to keep them upto date was awkward before there was a curse updater so it was better to get a compilation you knew would work all the mods playing nice with each other ie tested to some degree. every time the game got updated it would break all your addons and that TOC tool that would just change the version numbers of your addons so they wouldn't show as out of date, lol.

[Echocho]

there wasn't much in the way of healing assist addons, and dbm didnt really exist, you have CT_raid that could spam white text raid warning on the screen. like 'deep breath!!' or some other warning.

I didn't start using healbot until fathom-lord karathess in tbc I just manually targeted ppl and pressed the keybind, there was an addon for healing that put buttons next to ppls party frames so it was kinda like healbot or a healing assist addon, but an extremely alpha version of the idea. iirc it was called benecast.

but there was no weak auras and actual timers afaik. I don't really use many weak auras, if I play a druid I like to have a hot tracker, and my warrior has an average mana of healers weak aura but thats mostly it. there is a lot more robust addons today than there were.

when it came to addons there were quite a few that changed things action bar mods, unit frame mods like xperl, CT_Raid was kinda mandatory at the time the raid frames were extremely popular because the game didn't have any? I remember they patched some raid frames in but they weren't exactly better than CT_raids raid frames, but I remember getting compilations of addons, the one I used was called insomniax. it was just easier to use these compilations rather than try to download individual mods that probably had severe compatibility issues back then. trying to keep them upto date was awkward before there was a curse updater so it was better to get a compilation you knew would work all the mods playing nice with each other ie tested to some degree. every time the game got updated it would break all your addons and that TOC tool that would just change the version numbers of your addons so they wouldn't show as out of date, lol.

There were way worse add-ons back in the day, add-ons that were literally bots.

[Heathy]

but they didn't stay functional for long as blizzard would alter their variables in patches and break them, decursive was broken this way at one point, it worked, then a patch happened and broke it. then it worked again some time later when it was rewritten or fixed.

didn't they also at one point, catch a lot of botters making calls to depreciated variables? they changed a variable, booted up the servers and the ppl botting were still trying to bot using commands that no longer did anything. I'm sure I remember reading a story about Blizzard catching ppl this way. might have even been the same patch that broke decursive or around that time.

either way it seems to me that you could write a bot with macros if you really wanted to or macros combined with a recorded routine. logic based stuff addons using logic gates was killed off a while ago afaik. but I guess when it came to addons that weren't bots the mod creators just worked around the limitations.

healbot changed the game a bit when it originally came in, you could target someone, like the tank, and heal ppl through the addon without changing target. so i can be targeting tank 1 and heal rogue 3 while still targeting tank 1. this was pretty massive when I first started using the addon in terms of reaction time boost. as a priest for example I could fire PoM at someone I wasn't directly targeting, or cast CoH on a group without de-targeting the tank. this made healing a lot easier. and was quite a game changer. you could be an average healer without a healing assist addon and then you get healbot or grid or whatever and instantly you're a god topping the healing metres without breaking a sweat.

[Sezh]

I am a mythic raider and playing Classic PvP for fun, and i will say dueling in classic is harder than beating a hard encounter in Raids, on Mythic difficullity.

Dude do you seriosly think watching a 5 min tutorial on tactics is hard, u can easily complete a mythic raid after an hour preparation while never have tried the raid before. (On mythic, without best gear).

PvP is another ballpark, its a bit more hardcore, u have to actually predict ur opponent. You and revenanthero are so delusional its insane

You can lie to me but you can't lie to yourself. You have never, ever cleared a mythic raid. I'm not even arguing about whichever is hardest btw, that's a way too nuanced discussion I'm not interested in having. I'm just here to call you out, because I can spot your bullshit from a mile away.

[Echocho]

Wait, you can't get gear in pve by doing nothing? I'm sorry? World quests, lfr, mythic dungeons? None of these ring a bell for you?

None of those are nothing though, they also award you with shit gear. It's like going out and farming green and blue items in Classic from dungeons and world mobs, sure you get gear but it's pretty useless unless you capped recently.

[Demithio]

I guess just wait for TBC. It upped the raid difficulty level quite considerably. However, its true, its not 15 years ago.

[arkanon]

I guess just wait for TBC. It upped the raid difficulty level quite considerably. However, its true, its not 15 years ago.

I think TBC will feel like a step in the right direction, however I genuinely believe people will still feel let down by it. I would play TBC a lot more than classic, but it will still feel disappointing compared to when I first played it, and retail. The higher diversity in viable specs will be nice, and I just prefered TBC over Vanilla.

[Heathy]

t4 will probably be disappointing going from 40 man raids to a guild doing 2-3, 10mans. I don't remember doing many magtheridons he was quite hard in the beginning but you could get 4pt t4 without doing him. the chest pieces were nice but I don't think you had to farm them not having lots of t4 chest pieces wouldn't prevent you starting ssc or tk. its gunna take a while to get 25 ppl geared and attuned to start t5, so you're stuck with like 3 25man bosses for x amount of months. farming heroics and getting saved to karazhan. this could be pretty dull. at least the scale and atmosphere isn't going to be anywhere close.

t5 was fun I think, some what challenging bosses, few requiring good self awarness, I too farmed this and although I think it was better than classic, I don't know if i'm super hyped to do it again. I just didn't get to do much sunwell. I remember using the 4 pieces of t6 I had in naxx 25, that is what sunwell would amount to, in the same way that t3 amounts to blitzing tbc normal dungeons and being geared faster for karazhan. getting to sunwell would just be gearing up for a head start in wrath. there was decent loot in sunwell but you didn't need it for anything? bit like t3 really. I don't remember the instance really lasting that long before wrath released, that island opened with magisters terrace, some dailies, 6 months later it was wrath. sunwell kinda felt tacked on you could get 3 more pieces of t6 but t6 didn't gain any new set bonuses. by that point i'm pretty sure ppl knew wrath was going to be a thing. they'd already announced it was coming.

its not even sure how this is going to get handled, I'd prefer it if the communities that have been established simply carry on to tbc at some point. but we'll see what happens when or if they finally decide to announce something concrete. pretty obviously at some point these current servers are going to be saturated in t3 and the only real logical option is to move it on to tbc.

classic has been fun even if it was only to get a feel for what naxx was like at 60, that unique experience. tbc should hopefully be playable in a more casual way which i think ill enjoy more, not having to get world buff (combined with all the other try harding) is going to be great because doing this every raid is a pain in the ass.

[Akka]

the difficulty was always in the logistics and preparation, getting 40 ppl that aren't shit to show up on the same day, with enough consumables to wipe for 4hrs.

its noticeable more in naxx where if you don't just kill the boss, then each wipe where everyone pots is costing 1000s of gold.

To me it sounds more like it's adequately challenging, but the design flaw of being able to stack consumables trivializes the content.

Anyone who claims that addons weren't a thing in 2005 is just outing themselves as someone who never actually played in 2005.

Anyone comparing the addons in 2005 to addons of today is just outing themselves as being completely out of touch with reality.

[anon5123]

Anyone comparing the addons in 2005 to addons of today is just outing themselves as being completely out of touch with reality.

You're right. Addons in 2005 were way more broken-OP than they were now, things like quickheal and decursive where you could literally just mash 1 button and the addon would play the game for you. The macro system was also insanely thorough to the point where you could make conditional macros. You can still do it on private servers since they use the 1.12 client, literally making long macros that can make decisions based on what buffs you have, what debuffs the target has, which spells are on cooldown, etc.

But to claim that addons weren't a thing in 2005 is just completely wrong. Almost everyone who set foot in a raid used them since there was no reason not to.

[TJ]

I think TBC will feel like a step in the right direction, however I genuinely believe people will still feel let down by it. I would play TBC a lot more than classic, but it will still feel disappointing compared to when I first played it, and retail. The higher diversity in viable specs will be nice, and I just prefered TBC over Vanilla.

In terms of difficulty, for sure it will be a step up and a step in the right direction, but I'd guess TBC will be steamrolled like Classic. Maybe on an even more competitive level as I think it will be more popular.

I love Classic, but compared to TBC it looks like garbage xD Nearly everything is an improvement and the game is more balanced because of it. Providing it's implemented in a way that suits me, I can't wait.

[Beet]

You're right. Addons in 2005 were way more broken-OP than they were now, things like quickheal and decursive where you could literally just mash 1 button and the addon would play the game for you. The macro system was also insanely thorough to the point where you could make conditional macros. You can still do it on private servers since they use the 1.12 client, literally making long macros that can make decisions based on what buffs you have, what debuffs the target has, which spells are on cooldown, etc.

But to claim that addons weren't a thing in 2005 is just completely wrong. Almost everyone who set foot in a raid used them since there was no reason not to.

You are so off lol. Decursive was killed well before raids got difficult. DBM wasn’t even 1/10th this advanced. Macros? Most people didn’t even get how they worked. Very few people used addons compared to now. For most of vanillas time Cosmos, Damage Meters, CTRaidAssist, Decursive, and DBM was all there was. Decursive got nuked quickly too.

Also half the raiders didn’t use more addons than DBM. We’d struggle to get them all to just use it and god help us when there was an update before raid time.

[Wysmark]

Yeah im always so confused by these statements. I didnt run any addons day one, but had plenty installed long before I hit 60, and it was the same for the people i know and whom I played with. Maybe there was an element of the community who were completely oblivious to the existence of these addons, but some of them were so strong they had to be nerfed over the coming years.

I dont Seem to remember DBM, healing addons etc. Omen Threatmeter is about the most significant I Can remember

[arkanon]

I dont Seem to remember DBM, healing addons etc. Omen Threatmeter is about the most significant I Can remember

You are remembering wrong - the healing addons were so powerful they had to be nerfed.

[ifrah]

Healing addons indeed allowed 100% bot-like gameplay until Blizz overhauled the whole macro system. Before that, with CT raid assist you could literally spam a macro which selected the lowest hp raid member and casts a heal. Addon came also with features automatically interrupting the cast at <insert value here> seconds before finish if the target was <insert another value here> close to full HP. And this "mana conserve" feature worked with absolutely zero input from the user other than to start the cast. Similar feature with priorities was available for decursing, but that got stomped as well before Naxx was out.

Boss mods themselves were more primitive when it comes to the way they presented information, but so were the encounters. Thaddius arrows was probably the most advanced stuff I remember, and it was at least to some degree debated whether it was a cheat or not. Obviously a ton of guilds used that, but I faintly remember our guild discouraging its usage as the leaders treated it as borderline cheat.

[GreenJesus]

This thread: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...our-Horsement)

proves that classic wow is too easy. A tank died 20% into the fight, didn't get rezzed and they still managed to kill the boss.