How is i possible!?! Subrogues???

[Alanar]

Not sure if you're saying sub rogue and marks hunter are broken because they're powerful or too squishy because on my holy priest in PvP I have no issue fighting either of those two classes but they are not pushovers for me to win against but I do win against them. And in PvP gear I'm only sitting at around 167 ilvl.

You are a healer...?? Not sure if you are serious.

[Segus1992]

Sub will still be very strong with the new pve trinkets scaling well with their damage modifiers. I can see outlaw becoming a dark horse in arena though since its nightstalker hasn't been nerfed and can burst hard.

It's a bit laughable that you have "pvpers" here essentially saying that they shouldn't have to trinket against a class using every single offensive cooldown. What on earth are you saving your trinket for against a sub rogue? They are impotent after that opener. I'm sorry but posts like this are just ignorant and should be called out. When a sub rogue opens on me I deny his opener, bleed him, and then win the game. Of all the OP specs at the moment sub is probably the weakest since they die in a global to many classes. Moonkin, hunter, ret, all much bigger issues. UH damage in pvp is also problematic.

I haven't read the entire thread, but it definitely isn't about "not having to trinket against every possible CD" but rather "having to trinket Cheap Shot and using a heavy defensive instantly to not die" - which the Rogue can then follow up with a full Kidney Shot, if you do.

[Nerovar]

Mfw people top the arena ladder by playing double/triple rogue in 2v2 and 3v3 and rogues still somehow manage to pull off the mental gymnastics that are required to convince yourself this is good balancing.

[intenz]

a sub rogue do almost 30k damage in 2 global, meanwhile my agony hit (if not cloacked) for 32

balanced.

This abomination will be nerfed so hard

in what universe should sub rogue burst (almost 100% of the spec's damage) be equal to an affliction dot? Have you ever been above 1000 rating?

Hardly any rogues at the top in 3v3, this nerf is guided by official forum baddies. 3v3 is dominated by arms, ret, priests and boomkins right now even pre-nerf rogues.

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Mfw people top the arena ladder by playing double/triple rogue in 2v2 and 3v3 and rogues still somehow manage to pull off the mental gymnastics that are required to convince yourself this is good balancing.

rogues are underrepresented at the top in 3v3, what drugs are you taking? I feel like it's a waste of time discussing pvp here because we are talking about people who can't even trinket a cheap shot and it's a shame blizzard balance around these pve baddies while certain specs like arms are out of control in 3v3.

[Nerovar]

rogues are underrepresented at the top in 3v3, what drugs are you taking? I feel like it's a waste of time discussing pvp here because we are talking about people who can't even trinket a cheap shot and it's a shame blizzard balance around these pve baddies while certain specs like arms are out of control in 3v3.

Apparently, you do not know what words mean. Rogues make up roughly 8% of the WoW population yet sub rogue alone makes up 8.2% of the arena ladder 2k+ with an increasing percentage the higher you go (8.7% at 2.3k+ and 9% at 2.4k+). So no, they are not "underrepresented" at the top by any stretch of the imagination. It's even more ridiculous if you look at 2v2.

You are completely out of your depth.

[Molov]

so we're not gonna talk about this clip despite it being mentioned or...?

https://clips.twitch.tv/VastCourageousMagpieFailFish

[Varaben]

For anyone wondering what's in here.

Rogue opens on player recording, kills them from full HP in 2 seconds flat (not exaggerating in the slightest), Eviscerate alone did 13,847 damage, Echoing Reprimand did another 9,388 (that's 24,540 damage in 2 GCDs), the rest was auto attack damage/poisons and a little bit of damage from a Demonhunter who did nothing but get one tick of damage from Sinful Brand (1,305) on the Player.

Total damage done by just the Rogue in those 2 seconds? 26,847.

No one needs to be able to do 26,847 damage in 2 seconds, let alone when opening from stealth.

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They didn't do nearly enough, sadly... The changes they made will not do much, they will still be eviscerating for over half your health bar... Their nerf was unfortunately aimed at the wrong thing, the worst offender went unscathed.

This nerf would only reduce the Rogue in the abovementioned clip's damage done in those 2 seconds to 22,153... Is it better than it was? Of course, is it enough? Fuck no... No one needs to be able to do 22k damage in 2 GCDs... An ability that gets cast as often as Eviscerate has no business doing 13.8k damage... Rogues cast Eviscerate more often than Ret casts Templar's Verdict and I'm lucky if my TV crits for half of that in PvP at 182 Ilvl. This video was uploaded on the 9th, so I doubt the Rogue had much higher Ilvl than that, if at all.

I honestly dont think doing ~28k in 2 globals in necessarily a problem, but when it's from stealth it's definitely scary. I'm all for lining up CDs and being able to burst someone down in a few seconds given perfect scenarios, but also remember this isn't a 1v1 situation. So not only are you taking 28k from the rogue, you're probably taking Spriest or mage hits too. It's pretty brutal, but ret paladin can do something similar, albeit not from stealth. I am a little biased here, but I think the nerfs seem reasonable. Curious how it will play out and how rogues see these. Are they fair?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I did 2s as a holy pally with a ww monk and we had 15 wins out of 18 games up to around 1700-1750 CR. Then we had a 10 game losing streak and called it quits for the night. Felt like we just hit a wall.

We pretty much had a back and fourth in wins and losses all the way up to 1600 but neither my partner nor i are really arena players. I’ve also heard from my partner that warrior seem to kinda suck when compared to other Melee but can’t really speak to it past just his option as I’ve only played holy in pvp since launch.

But back onto the topic of rouges past the first few games we really didn’t lose to any no matter what the comp was the only time I can think of past 1000 was when I forgot to set my focus like a dunce.

[Dreadlack]

so we're not gonna talk about this clip despite it being mentioned or...?

https://clips.twitch.tv/VastCourageousMagpieFailFish

Every fucking dev should watch this clip and see the shit they created.

[Schattenlied]

I honestly dont think doing ~28k in 2 globals in necessarily a problem

I do, entirely, that should be impossible regardless of "lining up CDs", because "lining up CDs" is as simple as writing a macro with all the CDs in it.


Also Sub has no CDs that increase the damage of Eviscerate, it just does that as long as the target has find weakness on them (which is going to be basically always)

[fear]

Also Sub has no CDs that increase the damage of Eviscerate, it just does that as long as the target has find weakness on them (which is going to be basically always)

Baseline no, but 2 of the coven abilities do night fae and kyrian soulbinds give massive mastery buffs which does.

[ArenaDk]

And I was happy that my obliterate finally reached the 4k crits, then a rogue hits me for 18k.......and kills me in a 3 globals.....

As plate wearer, can I request to atleast survive 3 seconds?

[Steelangel]

I’ve found that as long as you can get past there openers they don’t really do much and as a holy pally doing 2’s with a warrior it’s not to hard to get past the opener and then just beat them to death.

But I can’t speak for any rating above 1600 as that’s about where we stopped for the week after unlocking two vault choices.

Quoted for truth. If you can survive the initial burst, especially with these nerfs, it’s gg for the rogue.

Pallies are my bane anyway, if they survive my burst, it’s bubble heal to full and I cloak and run like a bitch

[AlmightyGerkin]

Its a little bit of the kyrian cov/conduit ability but most of it comes from the Legendary Mark of the Master Assassin. Blizzard keeps fucking with kyrian ability thinking it will balance them out but avoiding the problem causing it. Thought they would have learned from Legion but I guess not.