As I feared a few minutes after Covenants were announced....it will get worse

[Sunslayer]

Doesnt matter unless you are doing world first.

So, if you arent doing World First you make no effort to be better or to be best you can be? So, if you arent a chef dont worry about trying to cook food well?

Your logic is absurd.

[kaminaris]

I USED to be at that level. What Limit Echo etc are doing now is not a one to two week event. It's 5 plus weeks of 10 hours or more a day on expansion launch. To give you some idea their main tanks got to 2100 and the full honor cap in rated events along with 10 14s they also this week did 4 full splits and 1 rat splits that didn't kill final boss. They also level more than just the characters they use for those splits in case of changes. They did something like 50 M0s each in the first two weeks. Then you have the maw farm where thd will be able to buy sockets in a day or two which was another several hours a day.

When I was playing at a competitive level it was nowhere near this insane in terms of prep I'll take getting my ce done in the first few months and then just chilling now thanks. I can deal with playing 14 plus hours a day during prog but the weeks leading up to prog just nah. Also I flat am not at the level of skill that people have reached now it's legit insane how good the players in echo and limit are even without stuff like snapshotting to differentiate them there is such a huge skill gap it's not even funny.

Thats cool and shit but, you do realize what happens before the race is just preparations? You realize that other guilds 100+ don't kill last boss on hardest difficulty for two weeks after it has been released? You do realize it's what really matters?

That means on last boss, method has minus 10 item level vs reward item level while other guilds have at worst minus 5 or even equal to reward. That is the point.
And those people can't compare themselves to method/limit. Their problem is not gear or raw outputs, their "problem" is lack of time on actual progression and lack of skills.

[arkanon]

lol

thats why i hate raiders and hardcore no-lifers

Lets not for a moment pretend all or even a majority of raiders think this way.

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So, if you arent doing World First you make no effort to be better or to be best you can be? So, if you arent a chef dont worry about trying to cook food well?

Your logic is absurd.

I think both sides of this discussion (and many on this forum) fall into the same category: each side just presents extreme scenarios trying to prove the other wrong, when reality is usually something in between. There is a gaping chasm of quality raiders who are not after world first but are still fiercely competitive and min/ max their toons heavily.
People present it as casual, open invitation fun run or Olympic 100m sprint, ignoring everything in between. "Unless you are trying to break the 100m world record, why even train?".

[Echocho]

It's like Ion said in his Sloot interview, it's okay to make a decision based on power.

What's important isn't why you make a choice, but that you make a choice in the first place.

You decide what's important to you and use that to inform your decision.

[Xath]

Thats cool and shit but, you do realize what happens before the race is just preparations? You realize that other guilds 100+ don't kill last boss on hardest difficulty for two weeks after it has been released? You do realize it's what really matters?

That means on last boss, method has minus 10 item level vs reward item level while other guilds have at worst minus 5 or even equal to reward. That is the point.
And those people can't compare themselves to method/limit. Their problem is not gear or raw outputs, their "problem" is lack of time on actual progression and lack of skills.

I literally said I used to raid at that level I'm very aware of the difference in ilvl in a prog guild vs a video guild. Seriously dude just stop also ever think that the difference might actually be more important in non wf guilds because they are going to do do a worse percentage of their maximum damage which means increasing that maximum is arguably more important if you do 70% vs 98% of your theoretical. The difference between covenants right now from worst to best across a raid is essentially a full extra dps maybe even 2 they are a big deal and they shouldn't be.

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It's like Ion said in his Sloot interview, it's okay to make a decision based on power.

What's important isn't why you make a choice, but that you make a choice in the first place.

You decide what's important to you and use that to inform your decision.

Thing is it's not it would be if cosmetics and story weren't tied to it and it was just a talent set like it should have been but it's not and that leads to players wanting to make aesthetic choices but feeling bad if they do because of loss of power.

[mbrodie0]

Pretty sure the numbers for most specs in WoW prove people who called out this problem were right. The idea that casuals do not min/max has been a fundamental misunderstanding of how casuals are forced to operate in a world of Raider IO where to get the best use of your time which is far more limited then hardcore players they are forced to min/max to even play the same game.

I am 100% confident in my prediction that after trash mobs and bosses starting hitting far harder in Mythic plus and raids any idea of choice in Shadowlands will be eliminated in the face of stark realities. The idea of picking a Covenant for looks was cute maybe in BFA world where you could obtain gear through multiple sources but those days are done in favor of a more Classic approach of less gear drops behind dungeon/raiding content with far more minimal drop rates.



A lot of people like me are sitting on the sidelines waiting to see if predetermined views of this feature turn out to be exactly what we expected. This is all before the nerfs come to try and even out these numbers and people have invested an inordinate amount of time into these Covenants to find out all their work/time has been wasted.

This statement shows how out of touch with the reality of the game you are....

Covenants takes a whole 20 minutes a week to keep upto date not “some inordinate amount of time” even catching up on an alt is super fast if you’re doing literally anything else the game throws catch up renown at you.

[Krakan]

Overall it wasn't a terrible outcome. Sure some specs have pvp and pve covenants but for the most part it balances out so long as you look up what one to pick.