The Blood Elves discussion thread

[Combatbutler]

Isn't the Reliquary part of that ideal, of the old "Convocation of Silvermoon."

The convocation has not been reformed , otherwise Lor'themar would not hold absolute authority, the reliquary was restored by the order of some council

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

There isn't really a difference between his regency and Monarchy to be honest, heck he holds more power than the kings of the past, he should just reinstate the convocation of Silvermoon, that way monarchy/regency doesn't hold absolute authority any longer.

We don't know if that's true, we don't know how much power is advisors hold -as far as Halduron letting Vereesa and the SC into the Ghostlands against his wishes, I'd say A LOT- So we can't even claim he holds more power than the "Kings of the past".

And how much unchecked power her wields as a dictator is kinda irrelevant to the lack of an hereditary system.

[Thalassian Bob]

I mean I am pretty much biased against any hereditary form of government, so I hope it doesn't go that way; but Blood Elves and Lor'themar specifically would seem to agree with that. I really don't think why Blood Elves would return to an hereditary ruling system after they have done far better not being that, specially when all their major leaders now occupy their offices because their skills in certain fields.

For Blood Elves specifically? I don't think they would have political parties -I mean they are pretty strict about their ideologies and kinda just exile those who disagree- but it's pretty evident there is ideological differences between the major organizations of Quel'thalas. So while a new convocation would be the way to go in the future, maybe they would like to keep the "Regent-Lord" thing going on, but with candidates from each major organization -Magisters, Farstriders, Blood Knights- and let the people decide.

I'm not a fan of hereditary power in the real world either. But, I don't think Azeroth's nations are at the stage of developing universal suffrage in their civilisations. Most are either theocracies, absolute monarchies or oligarchies. Even if the regency was kept non-hereditary, it would still be a tiny proportion of the Thalassian populace who had any sway over the choice of Lor'themar's successor. Arguably a Convocation could be one of the most emancipating systems on Azeroth, because it could be argued to be meritocratic, but we don't know how much sway class/birth would have too. There could well be hereditary peerages in the Convocation for the noble families like there used to be in the House of Lords in the UK.

While it would be cool for Quel'Thalas to be Azeroth's first democracy, I can't see it happening for a people so concerned with good breeding!

think of the Commonwealth of England and since oliver cromwell was not king he was lord protector, but he was basically a king by another name and his son richard inherited the position. The name king would not be used, nor would it be called a kingdom, they could have a parliament but the position of lord protector would be hereditary

Yeah, I immediately thought of Cromwell when we were discussing the potential for hereditary succession for Lor'themar (whether he wants it or not). But, I thought going with the Gondor analogy would have more reach ^^'

[Combatbutler]

We don't know if that's true, we don't know how much power is advisors hold -as far as Halduron letting Vereesa and the SC into the Ghostlands against his wishes, I'd say A LOT- So we can't even claim he holds more power than the "Kings of the past".

And how much unchecked power her wields as a dictator is kinda irrelevant to the lack of an hereditary system.

Depends though I'd say Halduron overstepped his authority and Lor'themar simply let him, after all he can and has overruled the Grand magister. The hereditary system would be the same as it was in the past, decoration, the Sunstriders "ruled" Quel'thalas but never really held the reigns until Kael that is.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I'm not a fan of hereditary power in the real world either. But, I don't think Azeroth's nations are at the stage of developing universal suffrage in their civilisations. Most are either theocracies, absolute monarchies or oligarchies. Even if the regency was kept non-hereditary, it would still be a tiny proportion of the Thalassian populace who had any sway over the choice of Lor'themar's successor. Arguably a Convocation could be one of the most emancipating systems on Azeroth, because it could be argued to be meritocratic, but we don't know how much sway class/birth would have too. There could well be hereditary peerages in the Convocation for the noble families like there used to be in the House of Lords in the UK.'

TBH I don't see universal suffrage being a thing, nor is what I'm truly getting at; which is that I just don't see the role of head of state being hereditary, regardless if the rest of the heriarchies within Quel'thalas have hereditary aspects.

Be it either a convocation based on nobility or on branches of the state, regardless of hereditary rules within, would chose a leader for the state based on how well they are liked by the people -and serve their own interests-

But yeah, I am not thinking full blown democracy really.

- - - Updated - - -

Depends though I'd say Halduron overstepped his authority and Lor'themar simply let him, after all he can and has overruled the Grand magister. The hereditary system would be the same as it was in the past decoration, the Sunstriders "ruled" Quel'thalas but never really held the reigns until Kael that is.

That's the thing, we don't really know. AFAIK Lor'themar's position might be very weak actually and the only reason he is there isn't any bylaws and just because everyone just agrees, and supports, him.

It might as well be the moment he makes a decision that's just too unpopular, the rest of his council might just ask him to step down. We really don't know how the whole thing works, so it's really all assumption on either case.

And that's mostly my thing, we have no reason to believe why his role is hereditary in any way, all we know is that he fills it out of obligation, so if it's up to him, I think it's a good assumption to say he isn't interested in being an hereditary position. Beyond that, the rest of the council -Rommath, Halduron and Liadrin- have said little about wanting an hereditary form of government, let alone go against Lor'theamar's feelings on the matter.

All this with the caveat, that it might end up as such anyway; it's just easier to have something close to an hereditary monarchy in fantasy fiction let's be honest. I just really feel it kinda goes against Lor'themar as a character and what he would want, and I'd rather see him, you know, happy.

[Combatbutler]

]And that's mostly my thing, we have no reason to believe why his role is hereditary in any way, all we know is that he fills it out of obligation, so if it's up to him, I think it's a good assumption to say he isn't interested in being an hereditary position. Beyond that, the rest of the council -Rommath, Halduron and Liadrin- have said little about wanting an hereditary form of government, let alone go against Lor'theamar's feelings on the matter.

I am arguing for the restoration of the convocation here, meaning the great noble houses rule again, which his family would be part of nowadays , just grant them the title of king/queen for their service so that the elves can still call their home a kingdom and call it a day.

All this with the caveat, that it might end up as such anyway; it's just easier to have something close to an hereditary monarchy in fantasy fiction let's be honest. I just really feel it kinda goes against Lor'themar as a character and what he would want, and I'd rather see him, you know, happy.

I'd rather see him adapt to the situation, he can never return to being a simple rangerlord again. With the council restored, it wouldn't matter whether he would carry the title king or not, he would be on it anyway.

[Ardenaso]

I'd reckon the triumvirate is pretty much the direct descent of the Convocation or at least the important figures

Belo'vir - Rommath
Vandellor - Liadrin
Sylvanas - Halduron

I kinda hope Rommath and Lor'themar also go to Shadowlands and perhaps Kael'thas blesses Lor'themar to be the new line for Quel'thalas

[Rhlor]

I'd reckon the triumvirate is pretty much the direct descent of the Convocation or at least the important figures

Belo'vir - Rommath
Vandellor - Liadrin
Sylvanas - Halduron

I kinda hope Rommath and Lor'themar also go to Shadowlands and perhaps Kael'thas blesses Lor'themar to be the new line for Quel'thalas

for a new king I want to see eldin sunstrider

[Tanaria]

I would love to see some Sin'dorei involvement in the Shadowlands and around Revendreth.

I suspect we will, as the first patch of every expansion is about the players meeting the new folks (or some old faces in this case) and exploring the new lands, then we start seeing the old favorite faces appearing.

[Alanar]

for a new king I want to see eldin sunstrider

Seems silly to give a random name generator mob the king title.

I am also interested in the confrontation with lortemar and kael.

[Vaedan]

I would love to see some Sin'dorei involvement in the Shadowlands and around Revendreth.

I suspect we will, as the first patch of every expansion is about the players meeting the new folks (or some old faces in this case) and exploring the new lands, then we start seeing the old favorite faces appearing.

I definitely expect some special interactions of blood elves and void elves with Kael. So far, we have only special dialogue with Zul'jin's soul.

[Tanaria]

I definitely expect some special interactions of blood elves and void elves with Kael. So far, we have only special dialogue with Zul'jin's soul.

Extremely possible.

Lets not forget that, the first Elves who truly went into deep study of the Void were Kael'thas' Sunfury.
It's possible that some of those returned Sunfury eventually either became Void Elves or were part of the exiled Silvermoon Scholars.

For Blood Elves - well, as a Blood Elf Mage/Warlock fan, I'd love to see more from the Sin'dorei Magisters. We've had a lot of Farstrider and Blood Knight lore of recent expansions and it would be nice to see something from the Quel'Thalas Magisters.

[Vaedan]

Extremely possible.

Lets not forget that, the first Elves who truly went into deep study of the Void were Kael'thas' Sunfury.
It's possible that some of those returned Sunfury eventually either became Void Elves or were part of the exiled Silvermoon Scholars.

I have very similar vision, I agree it is really possible some former Sunfury who delved into the Void could be part of Umbric's group. These elves were not part of the society which decided to join the Horde, so they missed the hardship elves on Azeroth had to come through in order to reach the Outland, so their ties to the Horde might not be that strong. Backstory of my void elf priest is that he is former Sunfury who realized Kael's madness and decided to leave him, but he was not able to stomach Horde (because of bad memories of orcish and troll attacks on Quel'thalas during Second War).

For Blood Elves - well, as a Blood Elf Mage/Warlock fan, I'd love to see more from the Sin'dorei Magisters. We've had a lot of Farstrider and Blood Knight lore of recent expansions and it would be nice to see something from the Quel'Thalas Magisters.

Blood knights are indeed prominent in representation, but what I don't like is that they changed into thalassian version of standard paladins, plus Liadrin is extremely boring character lately... they just lost their appeal. Magisters changed into random portal NPCs or no-name caster mobs, which is also a shame... I fear that with Nightborne on the Horde, blood elves will have even less spotlight, but let's see.

Back to Kael - I like his portrayal so far. He is passionate and seems to regret choices he made. I hope Blizz will not screw him this time and restore him as a protagonist he should be since TBC.

[Tanaria]

I have very similar vision, I agree it is really possible some former Sunfury who delved into the Void could be part of Umbric's group. These elves were not part of the society which decided to join the Horde, so they missed the hardship elves on Azeroth had to come through in order to reach the Outland, so their ties to the Horde might not be that strong. Backstory of my void elf priest is that he is former Sunfury who realized Kael's madness and decided to leave him, but he was not able to stomach Horde (because of bad memories of orcish and troll attacks on Quel'thalas during Second War).



Blood knights are indeed prominent in representation, but what I don't like is that they changed into thalassian version of standard paladins, plus Liadrin is extremely boring character lately... they just lost their appeal. Magisters changed into random portal NPCs or no-name caster mobs, which is also a shame... I fear that with Nightborne on the Horde, blood elves will have even less spotlight, but let's see.

Back to Kael - I like his portrayal so far. He is passionate and seems to regret choices he made. I hope Blizz will not screw him this time and restore him as a protagonist he should be since TBC.

I don't see how one cancels out of the other.

Let's look at Void Elf Mages - they haven't reduced the significance of nelf or human magi. Hell, the 7th Legion Arcanists were all Void Elves, Night Elves or Humans (with a few Gnomes.)

It's more about what fits with what. Nightborne Mages in Suramar, during 7.1 didn't make the Blood Elf Mages look any less inept. Also, during 8.1 - Blood Elven Magi have got their unique thing with Blood Magic and that has been a big thing since Mists of Pandaria and their new Constructs that they can make.

[Vaedan]

I don't see how one cancels out of the other.

Let's look at Void Elf Mages - they haven't reduced the significance of nelf or human magi. Hell, the 7th Legion Arcanists were all Void Elves, Night Elves or Humans (with a few Gnomes.)

It's more about what fits with what. Nightborne Mages in Suramar, during 7.1 didn't make the Blood Elf Mages look any less inept. Also, during 8.1 - Blood Elven Magi have got their unique thing with Blood Magic and that has been a big thing since Mists of Pandaria and their new Constructs that they can make.

I wouldn't say one cancel the other out or one group is better in magic then the other. I see it more that both occupy same spot, which seems to be limited. Traditionally, blood elves were the race which was responsible for most magical affairs of the Horde. Now, they have to share this focus with Nightborne. It might not be entirely bad, since it can open up space for new portrayals of sin'dorei magics, but on the other hand, the result is likely to be that we will see less blood elf mages overall. On the contraty to blood elves, nightborne have little to offer besides magic, their whole race is build upon arcane magic. Blood elves can fill in other niches, like paladins and hunters, so I assume that's the reason why this portrayal was dominant through BfA.

[Tanaria]

I wouldn't say one cancel the other out or one group is better in magic then the other. I see it more that both occupy same spot, which seems to be limited. Traditionally, blood elves were the race which was responsible for most magical affairs of the Horde. Now, they have to share this focus with Nightborne. It might not be entirely bad, since it can open up space for new portrayals of sin'dorei magics, but on the other hand, the result is likely to be that we will see less blood elf mages overall. On the contraty to blood elves, nightborne have little to offer besides magic, their whole race is build upon arcane magic. Blood elves can fill in other niches, like paladins and hunters, so I assume that's the reason why this portrayal was dominant through BfA.

I don't think it will be as bad.

Blood Elf Magi still have their advanced skills in the arcane, fire and blood magic.
They also still have organisations such as the Sunreavers, plus they along with the Nightborne, were the primary Honorbound Arcanists during the 8.1 faction assaults.

They also have their Sanctums and the Ley-Keeper Magi as well as various Arcanists and Archmagi scattered throughout Quel'Thalas.

Also, we got to see how many of them were, when they were High Elven Magi, during the Blood Elf heritage armor questline.

[Rhlor]

I don't think it will be as bad.

Blood Elf Magi still have their advanced skills in the arcane, fire and blood magic.
They also still have organisations such as the Sunreavers, plus they along with the Nightborne, were the primary Honorbound Arcanists during the 8.1 faction assaults.

They also have their Sanctums and the Ley-Keeper Magi as well as various Arcanists and Archmagi scattered throughout Quel'Thalas.

Also, we got to see how many of them were, when they were High Elven Magi, during the Blood Elf heritage armor questline.

Personally, I would like to see that the blood elf warlocks have more development

[Tanaria]

Personally, I would like to see that the blood elf warlocks have more development

More Blood Elf Warlocks in the lore is always welcome. The Female Blood Elf who leads the Archaeology practices for the Sin'dorei is a Warlock, but we've got to remember that this was just a small part of Silvermoon society. The Blood Elves that truly took to fel magic were the Illidari and Sunfury Blood Elves.

Silvermoon's populace mainly took to draining the magic out of living things - it was more of...questionable arcane practice, but it wasn't quite at the point where it was considered "fel magic" or anything of that completely destructive nature. Yes, Fel Crystals around Quel'Thalas were a thing and the Magisters were monitoring them, but it was still a niche teaching practice and not everybody took to it.

[Rhlor]

More Blood Elf Warlocks in the lore is always welcome. The Female Blood Elf who leads the Archaeology practices for the Sin'dorei is a Warlock, but we've got to remember that this was just a small part of Silvermoon society. The Blood Elves that truly took to fel magic were the Illidari and Sunfury Blood Elves.

Silvermoon's populace mainly took to draining the magic out of living things - it was more of...questionable arcane practice, but it wasn't quite at the point where it was considered "fel magic" or anything of that completely destructive nature. Yes, Fel Crystals around Quel'Thalas were a thing and the Magisters were monitoring them, but it was still a niche teaching practice and not everybody took to it.

blood mage are so close to be a warlock

[Tanaria]

blood mage are so close to be a warlock

But they aren't quite at the "Warlock" point.

Blood Mages deal in Blood Magic, combined with arcane and perhaps, fire magical practices, which the Blood Elves have mastery over.

Warlock is more about using Fel Magic and binding Demons to one's will. We can see the differences between the two when we see those two Blood Mages in the Blasted Lands, before Cataclysm and what the Sunfury Warlocks at Karabor were doing with that Pit Lord.

One could easily say that Blood Elven "Summoners" could be either Magi or Warlocks, as the Sunfury Summoners were both summoning demons, so the Demon Hunter initiates could train, but they were also binding the demons so they couldn't go completely rambo.