How Much Student Debt Should be Canceled?

[Milchshake]

Given the chart, I would say about $40k relief would be appropriate - $40k-60k and below. Just cancel it. No income restrictions or anything.
@PresidentElectMilchschake - Are we seeing serious indications that Biden might actually do this?

I'd say it means there's a strong chance for 10-50k amounts of debt forgiveness.
Schumer isnt exactly the the most progressive senator. yet he never gets the shit that Pelosi or Warren gets. So if Schumer is pushing for a number like 50k it means;

• Schumer feels he has good support from the Dem caucus in the senate to push it.
• Schumer has been pushing this idea since October. Giving it a 3 month head start to normalize in the national conversation.
• If this is the median Democrat position, historically Biden has always drifted to that spot.

I like 50k because it helps virtually of the people that went for associates, technical schools, and state colleges.

[Ivanstone]

Second, it's a bad precedent. Why just student loans? Why not any debt? What if instead of going to college someone wants to take over a family business, or start one?

A business loan or house loan is just a means of transforming money into wealth. A student loan is just a penalty for trying to participate in the economy.

[cubby]

I'd say it means there's a strong chance for 10-50k amounts of debt forgiveness.
Schumer isnt exactly the the most progressive senator. yet he never gets the shit that Pelosi or Warren gets. So if Schumer is pushing for a number like 50k it means;

• Schumer feels he has good support from the Dem caucus in the senate to push it.
• Schumer has been pushing this idea since October. Giving it a 3 month head start to normalize in the national conversation.
• If this is the median Democrat position, historically Biden has always drifted to that spot.

I like 50k because it helps virtually of the people that went for associates, technical schools, and state colleges.

Interesting. I agree that Schumer seems to be stirring up national discussion around that number. And yeah, $50k seems like a solid choice.

I'm hearing talk that Biden is getting advice/counsel saying he doesn't need Congress to do this - an EO would suffice.

[Jonnusthegreat]

People comparing car/house/etc loans to the cost of education are missing the mark entirely.

Why? They are all investments. Education just happens to be the best one.

[Shadowferal]

You forgive all of it once...then where will students get loans later? The banking industry isn't going to be forgiving regardless of uncle Sam paying things off the first time around. And universities need to get paid somehow.

[cubby]

A business loan or house loan is just a means of transforming money into wealth. A student loan is just a penalty for trying to participate in the economy.

Well said. I haven't seen a better summary, ever.

For everyone fighting this idea: keep in mind most every other country provides education for free, or mostly free, including college.

[jonnysensible]

You forgive all of it once...then where will students get loans later? The banking industry isn't going to be forgiving regardless of uncle Sam paying things off the first time around. And universities need to get paid somehow.

make it free, raise taxes on ultra wealthy. phew that was tough

[GreenGoldSharpie]

make it free, raise taxes on ultra wealthy. phew that was tough

That actually is something to consider. I'd love to have my loans forgiven, but if drastically reduced cost isn't part of the equation going forward banks will exit the whole house of cards and we'd have a problem on our hands.

Both need to happen for this to work.

[cubby]

You forgive all of it once...then where will students get loans later? The banking industry isn't going to be forgiving regardless of uncle Sam paying things off the first time around. And universities need to get paid somehow.

It would only be Government backed loans, not private. But there are certainly issues with this entire endeavor.

[Saltysquidoon]

It doesn't matter whether or not they should have known - they signed a contract and contracts are binding. If loans are cancelled, then faith in lending practices is diminished. I would be OK with a significant interest-only reduction, but loan cancellations are literally stupid.

Which contracts? All contracts? Have you ever actually read a contract? Go look at a contract by some megacorp and you find 10,00 clauses/riders and sub-agreements that render them slipperier than a greased eel.

Also, lol faith in lending practices. Unless you are or own a bank faith in lending practices should neither worry nor affect you.

Additionally, cancelling student debt is regressive. It favors the rich. The rich don't need more support. I read an article on NPR that stated that there are families making $200,000 per year and can barely make ends meet and I nearly spit out my drink. There are lots of stupid people out there!

Is this going to be some mental gymnastics argument about how 'real' poor people don't actually go to uni?

[Jonnusthegreat]

Which contracts? All contracts? Have you ever actually read a contract? Go look at a contract by some megacorp and you find 10,00 clauses/riders and sub-agreements that render them slipperier than a greased eel.

Also, lol faith in lending practices. Unless you are or own a bank faith in lending practices should neither worry nor affect you.


Is this going to be some mental gymnastics argument about how 'real' poor people don't actually go to uni?

I am fully aware that the losers in forgiving loans would be megacorp bankers. It still doesn't make cancelling debt reasonable from a moral standpoint. Fix the system, not the symptom.

No, it is fact that the people that go to college are wealthier than those that don't. I thought everyone knew this.

[Theodarzna]

I'd say all of it.

[Cthulhu 2020]

None but if I had to pay for other people's debt i'd make it universal and not exclusive to college graduates. I'm not exactly sure why a college graduate would need $10k taken off of their student loan but a person who only has a high school diploma wouldn't need $10k taken off of their car loan or mortgage.

"I had it rough so everyone should have it just as rough as me!"

If every single generation expected subsequent generations to have to pay just as much as they did for services or goods, or have it just as hard as they had it, you'd be lucky to have a job emptying a lord's chamber pot. A long time ago, primary education was only affordable by the elite. Regardless of how you view the public school system these days, the world is better off for it. Nearly all people have a basic level of education, and humanity's recent explosion in the advancement of technology can be in part made thanks to such basic levels of education. Providing further education would raise that base level even higher.

[Saltysquidoon]

I am fully aware that the losers in forgiving loans would be megacorp bankers. It still doesn't make cancelling debt reasonable from a moral standpoint. Fix the system, not the symptom.

No, it is fact that the people that go to college are wealthier than those that don't. I thought everyone knew this.

1. What are the moral concerns around debt forgiveness? Are you imputing that a statutory body voiding a contract somehow counts as unconscionable conduct that would provide the bank with a remedy in equity? Because no court on earth has ever upheld contract superseding statute.

2. It seems 'what everybody knows' and reality aren't matching up

3. A partial solution is better than no solution, it is an all too easy rhetorical device to claim you aren't against a solution you just want a better one, to avoid having to interact with the topic at hand.
Beyond 'won't someone think of the banks' I'm not seeing a lot of reason why cancelling the debt would be a poor move.

[Krastyn]

A business loan or house loan is just a means of transforming money into wealth. A student loan is just a penalty for trying to participate in the economy.

One could argue they both are.

Going to university is spending money to increase future earnings. Those earnings will then turn to wealth unless squandered.

Starting a business does not guarantee wealth. They also provide a place for those looking to participate in the economy, actually enter.

Or maybe bring in UBI, so people don't feel forced to go to college to not live paycheck to paycheck. (even though they should be able to without).

Making college free is not a pancea. It's also been repeatedly proven that people don't value / respect free.

[Jonnusthegreat]

1. What are the moral concerns around debt forgiveness? Are you imputing that a statutory body voiding a contract somehow counts as unconscionable conduct that would provide the bank with a remedy in equity? Because no court on earth has ever upheld contract superseding statute.

2. It seems 'what everybody knows' and reality aren't matching up

3. A partial solution is better than no solution, it is an all too easy rhetorical device to claim you aren't against a solution you just want a better one, to avoid having to interact with the topic at hand.
Beyond 'won't someone think of the banks' I'm not seeing a lot of reason why cancelling the debt would be a poor move.

The moment you enter a contract, you are essentially promising something. Breaking promises is morally wrong.

Interesting that you linked only a partial representation of the data and claim it to be the entire set of the data. I'm sure you strive to be accurate in other endeavors, this one just missed the mark.

A solution would be fixing the issue for future college goers - giving a literal free education (read: enhanced paycheck for life) to a generation paid for by others is not equitable in any sense of the word. A partial solution that is unjust is worse than no solution. College should only be free if the incentives to receiving a college degree aren't financial in nature. If a janitor made the same money as a doctor, then yes, college should be free. Since education in its current form is an investment (literally every ad says 'investments involve risk') then it should not be free.

[cubby]

The moment you enter a contract, you are essentially promising something. Breaking promises is morally wrong.

Interesting that you linked only a partial representation of the data and claim it to be the entire set of the data. I'm sure you strive to be accurate in other endeavors, this one just missed the mark.

A solution would be fixing the issue for future college goers - giving a literal free education (read: enhanced paycheck for life) to a generation paid for by others is not equitable in any sense of the word. A partial solution that is unjust is worse than no solution. College should only be free if the incentives to receiving a college degree aren't financial in nature. If a janitor made the same money as a doctor, then yes, college should be free. Since education in its current form is an investment (literally every ad says 'investments involve risk') then it should not be free.

I love that you ignore the bankruptcy issue. Cracks me up you can't address the real problems and continue to repeat tired arguments that fail in the face of other countries education program.

College should be free. Or are you suggesting that every other country has it wrong and the greedy 100% capitalist nature of the United States somehow has it right?

- - - Updated - - -

I am fully aware that the losers in forgiving loans would be megacorp bankers. It still doesn't make cancelling debt reasonable from a moral standpoint. Fix the system, not the symptom.

No, it is fact that the people that go to college are wealthier than those that don't. I thought everyone knew this.

You mean how all other debt is "cancelable" except student loans? That system? Holy fuck you're so naive.

[Theodarzna]

The moment you enter a contract, you are essentially promising something. Breaking promises is morally wrong.

The love of usury in this country is profound.

A loan is given out that the banks lending it didn't even have the money to lend out in the first place. No bank actually makes sure they have the cash to even give a person. Almost all debts are owed of fictional thin air cash as it stands right now.

[Rasulis]

Depends.

I have no issue forgiving student loans for teachers.

However, medical doctors' student loan is another story completely.

Modoc County Medical Center has been looking for a full time family practitioner for the last two years.

MMC is offering comprehensive benefits packages. Physician benefits include:

• Base Salary of $280,000 + Dependent on Experience
• Sign-on Bonus/Relocation Assistance
• Four 10-hour Work Days/Week
• Four Weeks Vacation/Year
• $50,000 Loan Repayment (After two years)
• No On-Call Responsibilities

I don't think most MDs need any student loan forgiveness.

[BeepBoo]

None. People should have to take a risk on their future as a means of proving they're worth the additional time and effort and as a means to ensure they're going into fields that society actually wants employed as opposed to getting yet another underwater basket weaver.

Success after college means what you did was worth it.
Failure or lack of ability to manage the debt somehow means you should have done something different or worked harder.

A CS degree costs the same as a liberal arts degree, but one is actually in-demand. If you KNOW this type of stuff and still pursue a liberal arts degree, you're knowingly making a bad choice and wasting money. Fuck you if you have that type of mindset and want other people to shoulder the responsibility.

We shouldn't ever prevent people from suffering the consequences of failure or bad choices. I certainly don't want to shoulder that burden (in part or in whole).