PSA: Don't try Torghast as a solo healer anymore.

[Voidwielder]

And I am glad to see healers and tanks having issues, they have it too easy for the rest of the game anyway.

what the fguck

[kail]

Did the 7 and 8 as prot pally, the only issue I hit was an early pack of Colossus elites that seem a little tank buster. Even with getting every interrupt and stun CD on point and all offensive/defensive cooldowns, my dps wasn't enough to stop both of them hitting 8+ stacks which lead to being two shot.

I had only 1 shitty anima power so just skipped them, got a few good ones in that floor, and revisited that pack to then kill them in better time. After that the rest of layer 7 and then 8 were a breeze. Get lucky with anima powers I guess as my build consisted of 100% wings uptime.

Also, I am sad to see that Torghast for healers is a similar encounter for dps/tanks. They should come accompanied by some ally or two to actually...heal.

[Yarathir]

Good to see someone who actually understands the design instead of going "T_T I can't faceroll this! Grr! Blizzard bad! Fix! I unsub!"

Neither of you understand it.

Sure gear and knowing your class helps. But it's like comparing a cupcake with a massive pie where the massive pie is the anima power RNG.

[Nevcairiel]

I tried Tier 7 today as a 190 Guardian Druid and got fucking wrecked, had to quit on second floor...

On second floor you dont even have that many powers yet for it to be have such a huge impact. Guardian myself, never had a run I couldnt finish, or even consider not easy, including up to Layer 8.

[Bloodyleech]

Neither of you understand it.

Sure gear and knowing your class helps. But it's like comparing a cupcake with a massive pie where the massive pie is the anima power RNG.

The one who doesnt want to understand is, is you.
The powers are a bonus. Something to feel good if you get lucky.
You do not go into mythic raids with 180 gear, right.. right? Why should you be able to clear stuff that is balanced for actually having gear?
Ofc you can spam layers till you get good powers, but that's not the intended design. You are supposed to do higher layers with higher gear, not "just being lucky gettin 1 or 2 completely overpowered powers". Roguelike games are ALWAYS full of rng. The difficult part is just that blizz didn't design it with the ability to dodge all incoming attacks (wildstar / binding of isaac style), which would make it way more of a test of skill instead of gear or luck.

[Kehego]

The one who doesnt want to understand is, is you.
The powers are a bonus. Something to feel good if you get lucky.
You do not go into mythic raids with 180 gear, right.. right? Why should you be able to clear stuff that is balanced for actually having gear?
Ofc you can spam layers till you get good powers, but that's not the intended design. You are supposed to do higher layers with higher gear, not "just being lucky gettin 1 or 2 completely overpowered powers". Roguelike games are ALWAYS full of rng. The difficult part is just that blizz didn't design it with the ability to dodge all incoming attacks (wildstar / binding of isaac style), which would make it way more of a test of skill instead of gear or luck.

remember how mage tower wasn't completed by most people until antorus? You'd get that kinda scenario with endless tears on the forum.
it will be the worst content until they can overpower it and feel rewarded and then it becomes the best content


Anyway back on topic, did both 8's with 1 death to traps on my druid, didn't get any good powers but it was still manageable through a shitton of kiting. the jumpy float power makes everything great, though.

[Nerevar]

then get good, get gear, cus 8's are very doable at 200 il. Which is normal itemlevel.

Bruh, even Blizzard nerfed some of the things mentioned in this thread. They were obviously overtuned.

[T-34]

The one who doesnt want to understand is, is you.
The powers are a bonus. Something to feel good if you get lucky.
You do not go into mythic raids with 180 gear, right.. right? Why should you be able to clear stuff that is balanced for actually having gear?
Ofc you can spam layers till you get good powers, but that's not the intended design. You are supposed to do higher layers with higher gear, not "just being lucky gettin 1 or 2 completely overpowered powers". Roguelike games are ALWAYS full of rng. The difficult part is just that blizz didn't design it with the ability to dodge all incoming attacks (wildstar / binding of isaac style), which would make it way more of a test of skill instead of gear or luck.

Blizzard intentionally did not make it a test of skill.
If Torghast was a test of skill then the tears here, on reddit and on the official forums would flow 100 times stronger.
Just remember the outcry from the baddies when Blizzard "gated" heroic dungeons in MoP behind silver, silver not gold, proving grounds.

You are greatly underestimating how many bad players there are and how bad they are.
The only thing bad players are good at is at whining. And there they have no peers.

[Bloodyleech]

remember how mage tower wasn't completed by most people until antorus? You'd get that kinda scenario with endless tears on the forum.
it will be the worst content until they can overpower it and feel rewarded and then it becomes the best content


Anyway back on topic, did both 8's with 1 death to traps on my druid, didn't get any good powers but it was still manageable through a shitton of kiting. the jumpy float power makes everything great, though.

Yeah. I remember mage tower - I really like it. Did it when it was kinda fresh on a non-raid equiped bdk (tank was one of the hardest one at the start /shrug).
"I can't do it, so it's bad content" is kinda normal these days, sadly.

[Asrialol]

Because if there's one thing we've all wanted Torghast to be then it's bigger HP sponges that just meleehit / random shit spam cast you to death.

Grats Blizzard, you've outdone yourselves again. You've clearly captured the essence of all the great roguelikes out there and came up with something even better - as is tradition.

Can't wait for Torghast to finally be somewhat enjoyable 2 years from now when it's finally gotten the required development time. It's a fucking farce atm - who in their right fucking mind wants to spend fucking 2 hours per layer on this boring ass pathetic horseshit?

You seem upset and immature. I quite enjoy Torghast myself. 2 hours per layer? Cleared 7 and 8 in roughly 20/35 min each.

[Bloodyleech]

Blizzard intentionally did not make it a test of skill.
If Torghast was a test of skill then the tears here, on reddit and on the official forums would flow 100 times stronger.
Just remember the outcry from the baddies when Blizzard "gated" heroic dungeons in MoP behind silver, silver not gold, proving grounds.

You are greatly underestimating how many bad players there are and how bad they are.
The only thing bad players are good at is at whining. And there they have no peers.

Yep, Wod times were funny. So many people to bad to even do a silver PG, which was.... very easy. I remember going in for infinity runs with fresh characters, just because you just needed some basic knowledge about the game /shrug.

I don't underestimate it, trust me. I see so many bad players each day (dks with wrong runes - ice as unholy/blood ; boomkin not able to play around eclipse(??!) ....) and I HATE to do anything with randoms, as most of these are indeed not able to even think about how to play their class.

- - - Updated - - -

You seem upset and immature. I quite enjoy Torghast myself. 2 hours per layer? Cleared 7 and 8 in roughly 20/35 min each.

He either didnt go in there or he's someone that doesn't know his class just a tiny bit if he claims that it takes 2 hours for one single layer. Probably the latter.

[salate]

Which is fine and dandy, but not when you spend over an hour doing it and come out with literally nothing. It is why a lot of them have progression outside of each run so even if you do a shit job you get -something-. Right now, Torghast is a waste of time.

I understand that you feel that way. Gameplay wise its a good system and place to have fun (it's just a genre, you just play to have fun, if you dont have fun there its not for you). But I agree with you, It doesnt feel rewarding at all outside the soul ash cap, thats a minus, I second that.
But waste of time? Depends really on a player. I like it, really like it, but vague rewards is a minus for me, zero secret rooms is a minus, perharps there are more than "find a fae or venthyr bro" or "find a bro for your mission table", we dont know, I really hope there are some kind of secret inside the tower, but we dont know.

It's a good thing for expanding the genre, but they have to rethink the reward system to make it more replayable.

Like Islands. Where you had a slight chance to loot. but u knew u had it

[Queendom]

Just did L7 Upper Reaches as 188 ilvl Mistweaver Monk

Killed 2nd floor boss (125k) at about 10 stacks, got no useful talents before level 4, though it was over since 4th floor boss had 175k HP. Decided to take a chance and try to get the OMEGA IMBA talent that translates your Mast/Vers into Crit/Haste, and got it off rare mob on 4th floor so I had alsmot 50% crit and haste on top of 80% mastery, killed last boss with Fallen Order in 30 secs without contest. This talent is basically a free win and if you don't get it then there is now way you're killing 364k HP end boss.

I'm getting this talent 3 runs 2 days in a row so either I'm very lucky or they increased it's chance, because I never saw it before this week.

[Yarathir]

The one who doesnt want to understand is, is you.
The powers are a bonus. Something to feel good if you get lucky.
You do not go into mythic raids with 180 gear, right.. right? Why should you be able to clear stuff that is balanced for actually having gear?
Ofc you can spam layers till you get good powers, but that's not the intended design. You are supposed to do higher layers with higher gear, not "just being lucky gettin 1 or 2 completely overpowered powers". Roguelike games are ALWAYS full of rng. The difficult part is just that blizz didn't design it with the ability to dodge all incoming attacks (wildstar / binding of isaac style), which would make it way more of a test of skill instead of gear or luck.

Stopped there. It most definitely is not lmao. If you think it is, you've either just had great RNG with Anima Powers or not played at all.

The powers are integral to the success of your run unless you are a tank.

[Moralgy]

i was able to finish 8 as a bear, but the last bosses had so much hp i ended up just having to kite a lot to heal up. all i kept thinking was "there are no mechanics, just too much hp" for both layer 8s

The slime had almost 700k hp and spawned 2 100k hp adds, and i think 4 50k hp adds. Like who enjoys this?

[-Zo-]

I just did both 8's at 185 as mistweaver (using flask/food/weapon buffs). It can be slow to ramp up, and you have to watch the skeletal guys explosions when you start to get strong, and not make dumb mistakes but other than that, not bad.

I went without the vivify buff till late on the first one, but even then you get enough other stuff to make you pretty strong. It's frustrating to get garbage powers in the start, hoping for some of the ones that build up over the floors (mawrat health buff mostly), but even still, maybe it's because I kill literally everything on every floor and max out on powers, but the main challenge was having patience.

Overall it was pretty enjoyable for me to see my character build up strength. Also I'm proud to say I didn't let a single mawsworn guy spawn due to being out of combat too. I might have to head back in as WW next time, as that was a big issue for me last time I tried.

[Bloodyleech]

Stopped there. It most definitely is not lmao. If you think it is, you've either just had great RNG with Anima Powers or not played at all.

The powers are integral to the success of your run unless you are a tank.

They aren't needed to clear, if you have fitting gear (and ofc dont have some weird op enemies). If you are so much into this opinion, then.. sry bud, but this content is not made for you. Come back later when you have good/better gear.
Doing those runs as boomkin or as tree - boomkin can do one layer lower than heal, if both get equally good or bad powers. Highest done is L7 with 180, just because I can't be bothered to go higher just for 40 soul ash - not worth the stress. Maybe you should turn down to your level of layers that you can do comfortably, too - just a friendly advice, as it is very obvious that you don't play anywhere near the top 1000, so you are not required to have a tiny statincrease via higher legendary (effect is the same as a legendary with ilvl 190) - you'll get it over time anyway, as people that push L8 are just getting 80 more ash weekly than people that clear L7.

[Yarathir]

They aren't needed to clear, if you have fitting gear (and ofc dont have some weird op enemies). If you are so much into this opinion, then.. sry bud, but this content is not made for you. Come back later when you have good/better gear.
Doing those runs as boomkin or as tree - boomkin can do one layer lower than heal, if both get equally good or bad powers. Highest done is L7 with 180, just because I can't be bothered to go higher just for 40 soul ash - not worth the stress. Maybe you should turn down to your level of layers that you can do comfortably, too - just a friendly advice, as it is very obvious that you don't play anywhere near the top 1000, so you are not required to have a tiny statincrease via higher legendary (effect is the same as a legendary with ilvl 190) - you'll get it over time anyway, as people that push L8 are just getting 80 more ash weekly than people that clear L7.

All I'm saying is that you either acknowledge how much of a role rolling the dice right on anima powers plays or you can be wilfully ignorant. Sorry if that sounds aggressive, but I'm not really eager to deal with denialists.

Nice of you to try and give advice, but it's still framed by a faulty view of how the system works.

[Bloodyleech]

All I'm saying is that you either acknowledge how much of a role rolling the dice right on anima powers plays or you can be wilfully ignorant. Sorry if that sounds aggressive, but I'm not really eager to deal with denialists.

Nice of you to try and give advice, but it's still framed by a faulty view of how the system works.

I know how strong anima powers are and how easy good rolls make those runs. I'm fully aware of it. I had runs where I completely ignored everything because I just had to look at stuff and it died - on others I had to stealth from floor-boss to floor-boss, because I couldn't even kill a trashgroup if there were more than 2 enemies in it.

I'm just saying that better gear CAN(!) negate bad anima powers - while bad gear is double-dipping the issue of getting bad anima powers, as you get less increase if you have lower stats. (doing 2k dps + 15% is less than 3,5k + 15%, obviously)

[Asrialol]

Yep, Wod times were funny. So many people to bad to even do a silver PG, which was.... very easy. I remember going in for infinity runs with fresh characters, just because you just needed some basic knowledge about the game /shrug.

I don't underestimate it, trust me. I see so many bad players each day (dks with wrong runes - ice as unholy/blood ; boomkin not able to play around eclipse(??!) ....) and I HATE to do anything with randoms, as most of these are indeed not able to even think about how to play their class.

- - - Updated - - -



He either didnt go in there or he's someone that doesn't know his class just a tiny bit if he claims that it takes 2 hours for one single layer. Probably the latter.

Checked his post history. Actually bookmarked it, such a fun read.

In the first page of his post history the word "fuck" is written 73 times in various ways.

Sometimes I wish I could teleport to where people sit and write this stuff and see their thought process and everything. Must be fascinating.