Upcoming Torghast Changes

[Kumorii]

You're new to Roguelikes arent you?

if that's you believe I don't think I will change your mind... not sure exactly how you got to that conclusion, but you do you...

[cateran100]

You could not be more wrong. The entire point of torghast is RNG. It's a rogue-like. Bad run? Do it again.

I think they should remove some of the absolutely useless powers, but everything needs to be RNG.

Sorry to disappoint you but in roguelike dungeons the LAYOUT and enemies are random not the abilities ....ohh and santa does not exist either...(btw...in roguelike dungeons have "permadeath" I hope you missing that too....You die and all your anima powers down to the drain....Not to mention the turn base..)

FYI: http://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?...rce_management

[Aretak]

Totally unnecessary nerfs IMO. Torghast was already on the easy side. I soloed layer 8 at ilvl 179 as a DPS and it was easier than several of the Mage Tower scenarios.

[Yarathir]

Totally unnecessary nerfs IMO. Torghast was already on the easy side. I soloed layer 8 at ilvl 179 as a DPS and it was easier than several of the Mage Tower scenarios.

Are you sure you didn't just happen to roll good anima powers?

[cateran100]

That's too many nerfs... Blizzard, no one asked for all this. The knee jerk reactions are wild.

Mobs had too much health. That's all. It was unfun because it didn't matter what powers you had, shit took forever to kill. You didn't need to Nerf the whole thing into the ground. Let it be hard. Hard is good. Time does not equal hard. That's all we've been saying about pretty much the entire game for 16 years.

Layer 7, Floor 5, endboss...Casting a 7-10k dmg spell....4-5 times in a row, then 2 other, then the row again....But hey..nothing wrong with that, right? Easy to interrupt, hmm?

[Kumorii]

Sorry to disappoint you but in roguelike dungeons the LAYOUT and enemies are random not the abilities ....ohh and santa does not exist either...(btw...in roguelike dungeons have "permadeath" I hope you missing that too....You die and all your anima powers down to the drain....Not to mention the turn base..)

FYI: http://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?...rce_management

Roguelikes absolutely have random abilities / powers.

[Toppy]

if that's you believe I don't think I will change your mind... not sure exactly how you got to that conclusion, but you do you...

Because thats more or less how Roguelikes often work. You have super difficult runs because RNG and super face roll runs becasue RNG. You know how many Rogue likes have class or character selection that further mess around difficulty in major ways? Kinda same here.

You want a good middle ground? Pick a class that is that middle ground. Some classes are just going to be better at Torghast, ussually due to some design that makes them excel in such an environment that nerfs or buffs cant change without effecting them outside Torghast.

Sorry to disappoint you but in roguelike dungeons the LAYOUT and enemies are random not the abilities ....ohh and santa does not exist either...(btw...in roguelike dungeons have "permadeath" I hope you missing that too....You die and all your anima powers down to the drain....Not to mention the turn base..)

FYI: http://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?...rce_management

No, in roguelikes the abilities are ussually random. Have you not played Binding Of Isaac (I mention since its thee most popular roguelike)? The fun is the random abilities and how they synergise.

the random abilities is pretty much thee most known part about them. Spelunky, Dead Cells, even more traditional ones like dungeon crawler stone soup have severe RNG based on what you can find on each floor which is randomized.

[Mehrunes]

I've so far run into more shitty epic anima powers than uncommon and rare ones. Sure that's also RNG what with generally just seeing fewer epics but it's funny to me that you can have dogshit epics to begin with.

I haven't really checked other classes since I have yet to level an alt (since I skipped most of BfA, my alts are yet to level through that and I just unlocked BfA flying yesterday to make that prospect more bearable) but yeah, this is definitely the case for Warlocks. The only one that's great is Pact of Infernal Intimacy (and even then, only if you get it on an early floor) and I guess Soul Platter for Demonology. But the rares are still likely superior.

In some cases, quite directly. Take the Tainted Vial. It makes it so you can cast more Malefic Raptures. At the cost of kinda killing yourself. Except there's a rare power that gives each Malefic Rapture a 15% chance to restore all five Soul Shards for more Malefic Raptures. And it stacks. And if it doesn't proc there's still another 15% chance to get at least one Shard from Soul Conduit talent (and even if you don't start a run with it, there's also a rare power that grants you this one).

[Kumorii]

Because thats more or less how Roguelikes often work. You have super difficult runs because RNG and super face roll runs becasue RNG. You know how many Rogue likes have class or character selection that further mess around difficulty in major ways? Kinda same here.

You want a good middle ground? Pick a class that is that middle ground. Some classes are just going to be better at Torghast, ussually due to some design that makes them excel in such an environment that nerfs or buffs cant change without effecting them outside Torghast.

Yes... you are correct, nor did I ever contest that fundamental part of roguelikes... But ALL roguelikes go through balance phases to make sure the balance between highs and lows is in a good spot so you get overall a good experience for people who enjoy roguelikes... which is why most games alter dmg numbers, health points and abilities etc etc...

Just because it's a roguelike doesn't mean you should nerf so everything is a joke because then the random part of roguelike is irrelevant and not satisfactory. Most GOOD roguelikes tests the players ability and knowledge of the randomness to tilt the odds in your favor... in which your require a middle ground OVERALL and not a complete joke or faceroll.

Due to randomness you can absolutely get these low and high points, which I never contested.

[cateran100]

Roguelikes absolutely have random abilities / powers.

Could you please read the OFFICIAL link of what is roguelike and point out the random skills?
"Random environment generation
The game world is randomly generated in a way that increases replayability. Appearance and placement of items is random. Appearance of monsters is fixed, their placement is random. Fixed content (plots or puzzles or vaults) removes randomness."

[Jastall]

This IS the change. Upper Reaches didn't have this garbage as first choice when it was last up. And I checked Fracture Chambers and it also has a worse selection than it did yesterday when I was doing layer 7. By "stronger selection" Blizzard just meant "lel let's make it one epic and one rare and call it a day" without sparing any thought to whether the epic powers for a given class are actually good (they really aren't for Warlocks) or if the rare alternative even works for a given spec.

That's indeed another problem. For Warrior, one of our Epic powers is gamebreakingly good (+10 000% damage on your first Shattering Throw on a floor and generates an Anima cell). Another makes you basically unkillable as Fury by reducing Enraged Regen's cooldown by 80%. The rest are pretty much trash. The balance between powers just isn't there, especially considering you should build towards survivability and single target damage given that the greatest challenges in there are always the floor and endrun bosses. And you have even Epic powers boosting movement speed which is useless.

[Kiivar86]

Sorry to disappoint you but in roguelike dungeons the LAYOUT and enemies are random not the abilities ....ohh and santa does not exist either...(btw...in roguelike dungeons have "permadeath" I hope you missing that too....You die and all your anima powers down to the drain....Not to mention the turn base..)

FYI: http://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?...rce_management

What on earth are you talking about?

Powers and abilities in Roguelikes are random. Hades and Binding of Isaac both are like that. Both are roguelikes.

[cateran100]

Because thats more or less how Roguelikes often work. You have super difficult runs because RNG and super face roll runs becasue RNG. You know how many Rogue likes have class or character selection that further mess around difficulty in major ways? Kinda same here.

You want a good middle ground? Pick a class that is that middle ground. Some classes are just going to be better at Torghast, ussually due to some design that makes them excel in such an environment that nerfs or buffs cant change without effecting them outside Torghast.



No, in roguelikes the abilities are ussually random. Have you not played Binding Of Isaac (I mention since its thee most popular roguelike)? The fun is the random abilities and how they synergise.

the random abilities is pretty much thee most known part about them. Spelunky, Dead Cells, even more traditional ones like dungeon crawler stone soup have severe RNG based on what you can find on each floor which is randomized.

Dead Cells is not Roguelike, Spelunky neither....Maybe check the definitions first (suggest rogueLITE fyi)

[Low Hanging Fruit]

I never really minded the challenge of Torghast. The problem was the health scale for me. I mean sometimes I would just be beating up a creature that is absolutely no threat for a long time just because it had a super fat health pool. That just isn't fun right?

[Lei]

Layer 7, Floor 5, endboss...Casting a 7-10k dmg spell....4-5 times in a row, then 2 other, then the row again....But hey..nothing wrong with that, right? Easy to interrupt, hmm?

Come on, you just need better gear! Come back in ilevel 400!

[Yarathir]

While you guys are on this argument about what and what isn't randomized in other games, try to remember that WoW is still an MMO and plenty of people who play it may not enjoy those games and may not be as open to having most of their success be decided by RNG.

If I wanted to play Binding of Isaac, I'd play that, not WoW.

[oldgeezer]

If you find the new Torghast too easy, or just want more of a challenge in general, run it in greens. Easy enough to remedy.

[McNeil]

The faster this is done the better. I'm surprised how fast Torghast has gotten so boring after a few runs, it should have been completely optional.

[bloodwulf]

Sorry to disappoint you but in roguelike dungeons the LAYOUT and enemies are random not the abilities ....ohh and santa does not exist either...(btw...in roguelike dungeons have "permadeath" I hope you missing that too....You die and all your anima powers down to the drain....Not to mention the turn base..)

FYI: http://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?...rce_management

Risk of Rain 2 and Hades would beg to differ. The Zones are moderately random but the powers are entirely random.

[Frolk]

Remove it or dont make it forced.

If u see it as forced, ima guess u dont do content that requires a legendary, like organized raiding or rated pvp, and u dont need legendary to farm transmog or pet battles