Cyberpunk 2077

[Cringefest]

Its when people just say "Objectively bad" which isn't the case. And in the case of car customization, they never really claimed it would be a thing. The AI doesn't really bother me outside of well kneeling down scared(If they ran it would be far better). Also people seem to love using absolute statements like "Its garbage" "Garbage game" etc etc.

TLDR: We're taking the game as is not what it could of been.

Whether it bothers you or not isn't the issue. The issue is that AI is dumb. That's an objective statement.

[Selastan]

Then it should not have been released on those consoles.
If a company releases a product and states it is compatible with your current hardware...it should be compatible.

No, its still not an excuse. And that's why CD Projekt Red is giving out refunds.

It is their fault for releasing a version of the game that is nearly unplayable without giving any indication that was the case. They understand this...hence the refunds.

Once again, Penny Arcade sums it up:

https://www.penny-arcade.com/news/po...14/cyberpunk-2

What would you have done in their place? How would you sell a game to the masses that runs well on upgraded consoles but not on the base versions? They had shown PS4 Pro and XBox One X footage, that wasn't false. But there is no way they could sell those versions without selling for the base PS4 and XBone. If I had a PS4 Pro, and I couldn't buy the game because the base PS4 couldn't run it well, despite the fact that my console could, I would be pretty pissed.

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@Zaktar yeah, that pretty much sums it up. I'm surprised fans of Microsoft Flight Simulator aren't complaining they didn't let you fly around space as well. They could always add more to a game, at some point they have to call it 'done' or else it would never get released.

[Cringefest]

What would you have done in their place? How would you sell a game to the masses that runs well on upgraded consoles but not on the base versions? They had shown PS4 Pro and XBox One X footage, that wasn't false. But there is no way they could sell those versions without selling for the base PS4 and XBone. If I had a PS4 Pro, and I couldn't buy the game because the base PS4 couldn't run it well, despite the fact that my console could, I would be pretty pissed.

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@Zaktar yeah, that pretty much sums it up. I'm surprised fans of Microsoft Flight Simulator aren't complaining they didn't let you fly around space as well. They could always add more to a game, at some point they have to call it 'done' or else it would never get released.

Are you trying to be sarcastic? Until now, CDProjekt was considered a serious enough company, able to release a quality product. They had a great subject with plenty of lore but enough artistic freedom to create an interesting aestethic environment. Nothing wrong in trusting them.

[Selastan]

As for the lack of customization it just doesn't make sense here. The game is set over a short period of time. V is on a mission. Sure, you can fuck around all you want and wait day after day, but that's not really 'canon'. In reality, the game's story takes place over a couple weeks at most. V might do some side missions for cash or rep to help him on his main quest, but that's it. He's not gonna be strolling to the barber or modifying his car to look cool when he's fighting for his life.

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Are you trying to be sarcastic? Until now, CDProjekt was considered a serious enough company, able to release a quality product. They had a great subject with plenty of lore but enough artistic freedom to create an interesting aestethic environment. Nothing wrong in trusting them.

At what point did I imply that I didn't trust them? I STILL trust them. That first patch actually improved PS4 stability quite a bit. I wouldn't be surprised if the game actually became half-decent over the next couple of patches.

[Edge-]

As for the lack of customization it just doesn't make sense here. The game is set over a short period of time. V is on a mission. Sure, you can fuck around all you want and wait day after day, but that's not really 'canon'. In reality, the game's story takes place over a couple weeks at most. V might do some side missions for cash or rep to help him on his main quest, but that's it. He's not gonna be strolling to the barber or modifying his car to look cool when he's fighting for his life.

What if V's trip to the barber ain't canon, either? What if V wants to change how they look for a specific job/mission? I mean, if we're gonna gloss over players wasting 5 hours clothes shopping because "it's not canon", then that opens the door huge numbers of other non-canon activities. To boot, it sure is odd that a game where character customization is a big factor, especially where it's set in a future where recustomizing yourself is apparently pretty commonplace.

I'm really hoping they eventually add it in, because I'm gonna be pretty bummed if I can't give my V a new trim or change out some robo-parts/add dicks because I'm playing "non-canon" stuff and wanna have more dicks.

[Tech614]

As for the lack of customization it just doesn't make sense here. The game is set over a short period of time.

The bulk of the main story is sure, but last I checked you customize your character and play part of the story that takes place months before the main story line starts rolling in so... This is a really lame excuse for lack of customization. Maybe you find an outfit you like and watch to change character look to go with it, not being able to customize your character past the creation point is stupid and wouldn't take any effort to add either. Just add the option at any mirror like Animal Crossing does and its the same menu from start of game how hard is that?

[Fencers]

The story isn't a home run by any means, but it's good enough to keep me interested in what comes next.

Haven't finished it yet, but I skip the vast majority of story in other games because by-in-large, video games have some of the worst storytelling I experience in any medium. Though I do think this is high-quality writing and would go so far as to say if the context of being a video game were not present the 'main story' of the game could be a dramatic series plot and narrative.

Not sure about the "cliche" thing either. Firstly, this is the cliche. The aesthetic and attitude of material here is affected by other media as a cliche. But this is the standard-bearer and creative originator of a lot of this style. Second, this is a satire. I would very much like to see alternate styling of this material because it is rather difficult to not write something similar to what is delivered without a lot of deviation from the original material's intentions.

How else would one write this in setting? The majority of games cannot even write consistently in tone for their own setting and fewer still have any account of modern naturalism- it is more common for video games to be written archly.

I'll have more to say when/if I finish this game.

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I'm really hoping they eventually add it in, because I'm gonna be pretty bummed if I can't give my V a new trim or change out some robo-parts/add dicks because I'm playing "non-canon" stuff and wanna have more dicks.

Well, I made myself beautiful. So I don't really need a faceplate adjustment.

But for the life me, why did they implement a clothes system where you have so little control over what are you wearing? For about 20 hours of this game, I was dressed like a fucking psycho. A trilby hat, kimono-looking jacket, a tank top, lime green reeboks, and gold hot pants. Who the fuck even?

[Selastan]

What if V's trip to the barber ain't canon, either? What if V wants to change how they look for a specific job/mission? I mean, if we're gonna gloss over players wasting 5 hours clothes shopping because "it's not canon", then that opens the door huge numbers of other non-canon activities. To boot, it sure is odd that a game where character customization is a big factor, especially where it's set in a future where recustomizing yourself is apparently pretty commonplace.

I'm really hoping they eventually add it in, because I'm gonna be pretty bummed if I can't give my V a new trim or change out some robo-parts/add dicks because I'm playing "non-canon" stuff and wanna have more dicks.

This might be me being too trusting an optimistic again, but I think they are certainly gonna add that as DLC. I think that after all the delays they had, they didn't want to throw in stuff like that and have it be half-assed. The trouble is thinking about how they would add it in with the story. Like I said before, the game isn't and open-ended sandbox to play sci-fi Sims in. I'm reminded of Fallout: New Vegas, in a way, and I think they will handle it like that. Player customization and visible cyberwear mods coming in a 'Gunrunner's Arsenal' type DLC. Again, I don't think that it shouldn't be included. I just think that with the story set up the way it is, if anything HAD to be cut, it makes sense it was the things that didn't contribute to the main story and core gameplay loop.

[Edge-]

Well, I made myself beautiful. So I don't really need a faceplate adjustment.

But for the life me, why did they implement a clothes system where you have so little control over what are you wearing? For about 20 hours of this game, I was dressed like a fucking psycho. A trilby hat, kimono-looking jacket, a tank top, lime green reeboks, and gold hot pants. Who the fuck even?

This is one of the reasons I'm glad the game is first person. As hilarious as being a murder-hobo is, I hate it when my character ends up waring a gross-ass mishmash of gear (especially if it approximates IRL clothing and not fantasy armor) that makes me look like my character has even less style sense than I do.

I just wanna look fuckin fab, man.

[Selastan]

The bulk of the main story is sure, but last I checked you customize your character and play part of the story that takes place months before the main story line starts rolling in so... This is a really lame excuse for lack of customization. Maybe you find an outfit you like and watch to change character look to go with it, not being able to customize your character past the creation point is stupid and wouldn't take any effort to add either. Just add the option at any mirror like Animal Crossing does and its the same menu from start of game how hard is that?

You do have me there. I get not having special fancy augments and stuff like that, as disappointing as it is. But the ability to just bring up the character creation screen again at the mirror really should have been there, I'll give you that. No reason why V can't style their hair or makeup in the mirror.

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Well, I made myself beautiful. So I don't really need a faceplate adjustment.

But for the life me, why did they implement a clothes system where you have so little control over what are you wearing? For about 20 hours of this game, I was dressed like a fucking psycho. A trilby hat, kimono-looking jacket, a tank top, lime green reeboks, and gold hot pants. Who the fuck even?

When I finished my first playthrough, my character was wearing a purple beanie, the Samurai jacket, a purple suit shirt with tie, shorts, and military boots. If it wasn't for the performance issues, I'm certain Cyberpunk clown suits would be the big meme.

[Saltysquidoon]

It's almost like it's a game. Could a more fleshed out system be more fun? Sure, absolutely, but the game is on the rails in many ways and this is one. You're ostensibly a police contractor so they don't really let you meaningfully violate the law. If you expected to have to hire a good lawyer, show up in court, and serve a prison sentence for your infractions, I guess I can see why the game is disappointing...

GTA (and all its clones) figured this shit out unironically almost 20 years ago. Genres develop, features become standard, if you want a seat at the table you have to be able to play by the rules.
This is like if an FPS game came out without mouse (or twin-stick) aiming and people were like it's just a game bro, turn your brain off, it doesn't even affect me, works on my machine, it's just an abstraction bro, just consoome.

Another thing, 'wow like it's just my opinion bro' is not a defense. When you post your opinion on a public forum you're opening your opinion up to criticism

No game does everything that the detractors of this one want it to do. All games have to make tradeoffs between abstraction and realism, between what the designers are trying to accomplish and what "nice to haves" the players want. Here's one I have that you didn't mention - I hate that when you stealthily take someone down mid-conversation, their buddy doesn't notice. It's not a perfect game, if someone doesn't like it that's totally fair, it just seems like a lot of the complaints for this game are stupid nitpicky bullshit. Comes across as an entitlement issue, but I realize at least some of it is caused by the developers promising that the game would give you a puppy and a kiss on the forehead every night before bed.

Entitlement, nitpick... You don't happen to work at IGN do you?

When I purchased this game all I knew was it was based on the PnP game I was vaguely aware of, that piece of concept art with the mantis blades hooker and that it was made by the witcher devs. In that respect, I have very few expectations.
My rig runs it well, I've luckily had very few performance issues, that doesn't make the console lying ok because it works on my machine.
I enjoyed the story, the shooting, and the hacking, that doesn't make the game's obvious flaws immune from criticism.
Most importantly the game was fun (I'd not have finished it if I didn't have fun), but that doesn't mean I can see where there is room for improvement or where features were pretty blatantly cut (such as the cybermod snoozevillie).

[Fencers]

I just wanna look fuckin fab, man.

This is the REAL ISSUE in CP2077 as far as I am concerned.

[Zaktar]

GTA (and all its clones) figured this shit out unironically almost 20 years ago. Genres develop, features become standard, if you want a seat at the table you have to be able to play by the rules.
This is like if an FPS game came out without mouse (or twin-stick) aiming and people were like it's just a game bro, turn your brain off, it doesn't even affect me, works on my machine, it's just an abstraction bro, just consoome.

Another thing, 'wow like it's just my opinion bro' is not a defense. When you post your opinion on a public forum you're opening your opinion up to criticism

No, it's not like that at all. Aiming is a core game feature for a shooter, this wanted system is a minor, mostly irrelevant feature. Clearly all it's there to do is to give you a slight incentive to not kill civilians. It's not GTA, it's not trying to be GTA, it just has some GTA-like systems. It shouldn't be a surprise that a game more focused on those systems fleshes them out more.

Yeah, developers have to make choices about which elements to make real and which to leave as abstract. I don't see you complaining about the fact that you can change your clothes in the middle of the street with no consequences. Where are the people who are mad that your character can stay awake for days at a time with no problems? For some reason I can't even leave the city and go visit other parts of the world, how am I supposed to believe any of this is real if I can't go to Paris? I could go to Paris in Deus Ex and that came out in 2000 FFS. WHY AREN'T I GETTING TICKETED FOR PUBIC INDECENCY!!111 This game is bullshit

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Entitlement, nitpick... You don't happen to work at IGN do you?

When I purchased this game all I knew was it was based on the PnP game I was vaguely aware of, that piece of concept art with the mantis blades hooker and that it was made by the witcher devs. In that respect, I have very few expectations.
My rig runs it well, I've luckily had very few performance issues, that doesn't make the console lying ok because it works on my machine.
I enjoyed the story, the shooting, and the hacking, that doesn't make the game's obvious flaws immune from criticism.
Most importantly the game was fun (I'd not have finished it if I didn't have fun), but that doesn't mean I can see where there is room for improvement or where features were pretty blatantly cut (such as the cybermod snoozevillie).

Nope, but I've made games and had to make some of these choices so I have sympathy for developers when people criticize their games for not being the impossible vision of perfection someone created in their mind.

In any case I agree with basically everything you said in that last paragraph.

[FrostyButt]

For me Cyberpunk is a good On-Rails RPG. If you only follow the main quests and side quests then it's not a terrible game. As soon as you dick around in the open world, you start to see how shitty their AI is. There is no excuse for this game to have such bad AI.

[Fencers]

For me Cyberpunk is a good On-Rails RPG. If you only follow the main quests and side quests then it's not a terrible game. As soon as you dick around in the open world, you start to see how shitty their AI is. There is no excuse for this game to have such bad AI.

The "open-world" portions of the game are definitely the weakest point. I think games like Crackdown 3 and Just Cause had more interesting and dynamic stuff to do in their respective open worlds than CP2077. And of course, GTA and RDR. Which is a real testament in my opinion to how good Rockstar is at design their open-world portions of the games versus so many others that fall flat or on their face.

[FrostyButt]

The "open-world" portions of the game are definitely the weakest point. I think games like Crackdown 3 and Just Cause had more interesting and dynamic stuff to do in their respective open worlds than CP2077. And of course, GTA and RDR. Which is a real testament in my opinion to how good Rockstar is at design their open-world portions of the games versus so many others that fall flat or on their face.

RDR and GTA AI are MILES MILES MILES better than Cyberpunks AI. If I remember right, didn't a dev from CDPR comment something along the lines of "Our AI is better than Rockstar" I don't remember the exact quote, but I do remember reading something like that. They should be embarrassed with what they released in terms of the AI/Open world

[RobertoCarlos]

No, it's not like that at all. Aiming is a core game feature for a shooter, this wanted system is a minor, mostly irrelevant feature. Clearly all it's there to do is to give you a slight incentive to not kill civilians. It's not GTA, it's not trying to be GTA, it just has some GTA-like systems. It shouldn't be a surprise that a game more focused on those systems fleshes them out more.

Yeah, developers have to make choices about which elements to make real and which to leave as abstract. I don't see you complaining about the fact that you can change your clothes in the middle of the street with no consequences. Where are the people who are mad that your character can stay awake for days at a time with no problems? For some reason I can't even leave the city and go visit other parts of the world, how am I supposed to believe any of this is real if I can't go to Paris? I could go to Paris in Deus Ex and that came out in 2000 FFS. WHY AREN'T I GETTING TICKETED FOR PUBIC INDECENCY!!111 This game is bullshit

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Nope, but I've made games and had to make some of these choices so I have sympathy for developers when people criticize their games for not being the impossible vision of perfection someone created in their mind.

In any case I agree with basically everything you said in that last paragraph.

You know you have to reach for examples when you use "why doesn't my character get tired" as a defence

[Cringefest]

For me Cyberpunk is a good On-Rails RPG. If you only follow the main quests and side quests then it's not a terrible game. As soon as you dick around in the open world, you start to see how shitty their AI is. There is no excuse for this game to have such bad AI.

That's really accurate.

[dope_danny]

https://twitter.com/AskPlayStation/s...37360184078336

They actually did it. Bad press so loud it made the immovable object give an inch.

edit: Its actually worse than it first appears. Not only is Sony giving no questions asked refunds they have removed the PS4 version from the PSN entirely.

-for comparison Anthem is in the PSN end of year sale right now.

[Tech614]

https://twitter.com/AskPlayStation/s...37360184078336

They actually did it. Bad press so loud it made the immovable object give an inch.

edit: Its actually worse than it first appears. Not only is Sony giving no questions asked refunds they have removed the PS4 version from the PSN entirely.

And Sony is one of the hardest companies to get a damn refund from, which shows how laughable this release was.