If they made a new class in the future, what would it be?

[Teriz]

Did you never play either storyline? Paladins show up in the priest order hall to help them fight a demon invasion.

No, I'm asking if there are any Priest members of the Paladin order, and if there are Paladin members of the Priest order, because Dark Rangers are members of the Hunter order (Unseen Path) led by the Hunter champion (player).

You do know that NPCs do not need abilities to be considered to belong to a certain class or group, right? That's like saying Master Tinker Trini is not a tinker because she has no abilities. Or that Stormwind Guards are not warriors because they have no warrior abilities.

See above.

And the warglaive set could we wielded by rogues and warriors. Does that mean demon hunters are just rogues and warriors?

ONLY by Rogues and Warriors? Because that Hood was ONLY available to Hunters.

Again, like I said: it could very well be explained as a game mechanic considering all those that help the order halls have to fit in one of the three class specs, by design.

Or they could simply be MM Hunters, since they're part of the Hunter order, and their leadership (Sylvanas and Nathanos) are also considered a derivative of the Hunter class.

[Ielenia]

No, I'm asking if there are any Priest members of the Paladin order, and if there are Paladin members of the Priest order, because Dark Rangers are members of the Hunter order (Unseen Path) led by the Hunter champion (player).

The Church of the Holy Light employs both paladins and priests.

See above.

I'll repeat, because your answer didn't address my question in the slightest:

You do know that NPCs do not need abilities to be considered to belong to a certain class or group, right? That's like saying Master Tinker Trini is not a tinker because she has no abilities. Or that Stormwind Guards are not warriors because they have no warrior abilities.

ONLY by Rogues and Warriors? Because that Hood was ONLY available to Hunters.

Yes. Couple that with that only rogues would wield the twin warglaives and wear the Cursed Vision of Sargeras headgear. Also: unlike Illidan's warglaives and blindfold, the dark ranger hood is literally just that: a hood. It has no stats, or even special abilities.

Or they could simply be MM Hunters, since they're part of the Hunter order,

Like tinkers could just be MM/Survival hunters too, considering we see inventors in the hunter order hall as well. Or they could just be vendors, like we see in the game?

and their leadership (Sylvanas and Nathanos) are also considered a derivative of the Hunter class.

They're not "considered a derivative". You're the one asserting that. Especially since HotS shows Sylvanas with a toolkit very much different from the WoW hunter class. And before you dismiss HotS, remember that you used the game to imply that the WoW DH class' design was "heavily inspired" by HotS Illidan.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

tinker is never happening

go ahead and make a poster of this sentence too and hang it on your wall, right above your monitor

now every blizzcon look up at the poster and remember that i was right

There's a very long list of things players have said that will never happen yet still happened so I'll just leave it at never say never.

[Teriz]

The Church of the Holy Light employs both paladins and priests.

We were talking about Order halls, please answer the question.

I'll repeat, because your answer didn't address my question in the slightest:

Actually it did, since being members of the class' order isn't about the abilities. The Hunter champion is the Huntsman, and actually leads the Dark Rangers of the Unseen Path.

Yes. Couple that with that only rogues would wield the twin warglaives and wear the Cursed Vision of Sargeras headgear. Also: unlike Illidan's warglaives and blindfold,

Except that's false. DKs and Monks could also equip the Warglaives before the DH class appeared. Again, the Hood was only obtainable for the Hunter class. Oh, and Monks and Druids could also wear the Cursed Vision of Sargeras. So you're wrong again, Monks can wear the wrap AND equip the Warglaives.

the dark ranger hood is literally just that: a hood. It has no stats, or even special abilities.

Which is irrelevant. What is relevant is that a Dark Ranger item was only available to the Hunter class.

Like tinkers could just be MM/Survival hunters too, considering we see inventors in the hunter order hall as well. Or they could just be vendors, like we see in the game?

Except on the follower tables Tinkers are not labeled as part of any existing class.

They're not "considered a derivative". You're the one asserting that. Especially since HotS shows Sylvanas with a toolkit very much different from the WoW hunter class. And before you dismiss HotS, remember that you used the game to imply that the WoW DH class' design was "heavily inspired" by HotS Illidan.

I'm not dismissing HotS, I'm dismissing Sylvanas since she has never been representative of the general Dark Ranger in WoW. Nathanos is more in line with what your standard Dark Ranger is than Sylvanas was, and he was a Hunter trainer. The interesting point is that once Sylvanas and Nathanos is gone, will the Dark Ranger concept fade into obscurity since there will be no prominent Dark Rangers left in lore?

My money is on "yes".

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There's a very long list of things players have said that will never happen yet still happened so I'll just leave it at never say never.

Agreed. While I think Necromancers and Dark Rangers have an extremely low chance of implementation, there's still a (small) chance of it occurring in the future.

[LemonDemonGirl]

I think there should just be a Megathread for new class ideas, much like the one for Elves. Would save time since all you'd have to do is look through it, instead of just making another thread

[prwraith]

I'd rather unsub than have tinkers as a class. Your move blizz.

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I think there should just be a Megathread for new class ideas, much like the one for Elves. Would save time since all you'd have to do is look through it, instead of just making another thread

Would certainly save the dozens of Teriz threads every year on dragonsworn and tinker. Or his other threads that somehow always allude to tinker.

[Teriz]

I'd rather unsub than have tinkers as a class. Your move blizz.

Then you're probably going to unsub (I don't know why you would, just don't play the class). Tinkers are looking very likely.

I recently found this in the game files;

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=276851...goblin-defense

Which means the entire ability set from HotS was translated into WoW in BFA.

Would certainly save the dozens of Teriz threads every year on dragonsworn and tinker. Or his other threads that somehow always allude to tinker.

Dozens? I've probably made about half a dozen threads this year, if that.

[draugril]

Then you're probably going to unsub (I don't know why you would, just don't play the class). Tinkers are looking very likely.

I recently found this in the game files;

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=276851...goblin-defense

Which means the entire ability set from HotS was translated into WoW in BFA.

Don't you think it within the realm of possibility that they tossed in Gazlowe with his HotS abilities as a reference to Gazlowe in HotS, and not as a precursor to any playable incarnation?

[Ielenia]

We were talking about Order halls, please answer the question.

This is hilariously dishonest of you, to "demand" others to answer your question, when you outright refuse to answer other people's questions or just dodge them. But, to answer your question: no, to my knowledge there are no paladins employed within the priest other hall or vice-versa. However, that does not really count against the dark ranger, because if the dark ranger were to be its own class before Legion, it would have its own order hall.

In other words: dark rangers showing up in the hunter order hall is not a strike against the class being made in the future.

Actually it did, since being members of the class' order isn't about the abilities. The Hunter champion is the Huntsman, and actually leads the Dark Rangers of the Unseen Path.

Mmm... no, they don't lead the dark rangers. Sylvanas does. Or did: "Dark rangers are undead archers in service of the Forsaken or Sylvanas Windrunner."

Except that's false. DKs and Monks could also equip the Warglaives before the DH class appeared. Again, the Hood was only obtainable for the Hunter class. Oh, and Monks and Druids could also wear the Cursed Vision of Sargeras. So you're wrong again, Monks can wear the wrap AND equip the Warglaives.

Monks did not exist during TBC. Monks did not come to be until almost half a decade later.

Which is irrelevant. What is relevant is that a Dark Ranger item was only available to the Hunter class.

The fact that it's just an item with no stats or abilities whatsoever tells us that it's literally just a common hood. Nothing special about it. It is, quite literally, just a name like any other. The only reason it's "hunter-only" is not because only hunters can equip it (because it lacks a "hunter only" tag) is because it's available in an area only hunters have access to.

Except on the follower tables Tinkers are not labeled as part of any existing class.

As I pointed out: we do have inventors within the hunter order hall. By your logic, "only tinkers can invent", therefore those tinkers are hunters.

I'm not dismissing HotS, I'm dismissing Sylvanas since she has never been representative of the general Dark Ranger in WoW. Nathanos is more in line with what your standard Dark Ranger is than Sylvanas was, and he was a Hunter trainer. The interesting point is that once Sylvanas and Nathanos is gone, will the Dark Ranger concept fade into obscurity since there will be no prominent Dark Rangers left in lore?

My money is on "yes".

You never considering her a representative does not mean she is. Since the beginning it was clear she was inspired in the "Dark Ranger" warcraft 3 hero unit (you know, the game you love as gospel?). Nathanos not showing any dark ranger ability is, again, not a problem because just like many demon hunters and death knights not having an ounce of "demon hunter" and "death knight" abilities whatsoever before their implementation, he would get dark ranger abilities if the class is added, maybe even retroactively.

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Then you're probably going to unsub (I don't know why you would, just don't play the class). Tinkers are looking very likely.

You've been saying that for over ten years.

[LemonDemonGirl]

Then you're probably going to unsub (I don't know why you would, just don't play the class). Tinkers are looking very likely.

So are Necromancers, and look what we got for SL. Just Allied Race DKs

[Traveler Voltin]

Teriz may bring up Tinkers but Ielenia is the one who refuses to let the topic move on.


anyway. currently dark rangers are just hunters and until more Dark rangers like Sylvanas appear we probably wont get them as a class unless Sylvanas gets redeemed.

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So are Necromancers, and look what we got for SL. Just Allied Race DKs

getting a Necromancer class requires reworking 2 classes.

[draugril]

Teriz may bring up Tinkers but Ielenia is the one who refuses to let the topic move on.


anyway. currently dark rangers are just hunters and until more Dark rangers like Sylvanas appear we probably wont get them as a class unless Sylvanas gets redeemed.

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getting a Necromancer class requires reworking 2 classes.

I think something we're overlooking is that the current roster of WoW developers seem to be very intent to subvert expectations, for good or for ill. All of these tinfoily pattern analyses are essentially meaningless when the current team wants to forge their own path and make their own mark on the modern game.

[Teriz]

Don't you think it within the realm of possibility that they tossed in Gazlowe with his HotS abilities as a reference to Gazlowe in HotS, and not as a precursor to any playable incarnation?

Well that's the thing; There's no reason to do that unless you're bringing in a Tinker class because HotS isn't canon in WoW.

[draugril]

Well that's the thing; There's no reason to do that unless you're bringing in a Tinker class because HotS isn't canon in WoW.

The reason is because you're giving a nod to the other game because it's fun. Like all of these:

https://wow.gamepedia.com/List_of_po...es_in_Warcraft

It could very well just be a reference (and those references are now "canon"). As they say, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

At the very least, is that possible?

[Teriz]

This is hilariously dishonest of you, to "demand" others to answer your question, when you outright refuse to answer other people's questions or just dodge them. But, to answer your question: no, to my knowledge there are no paladins employed within the priest other hall or vice-versa. However, that does not really count against the dark ranger, because if the dark ranger were to be its own class before Legion, it would have its own order hall.

In other words: dark rangers showing up in the hunter order hall is not a strike against the class being made in the future.

Thank you for admitting that the Priest and Paladin situation is nothing like the Hunter/Dark Ranger situation. You saying that this evidence doesn't matter is typical of you.

Mmm... no, they don't lead the dark rangers. Sylvanas does. Or did: "Dark rangers are undead archers in service of the Forsaken or Sylvanas Windrunner."

Yeah, she did. She doesn't anymore since she left them high and dry at the end of BFA.

Monks did not exist during TBC. Monks did not come to be until almost half a decade later.

But Monks still came out before Demon Hunters. In short, the Glaives and Blindfold were never exclusive to a single class, but the hood was.

The fact that it's just an item with no stats or abilities whatsoever tells us that it's literally just a common hood. Nothing special about it. It is, quite literally, just a name like any other. The only reason it's "hunter-only" is not because only hunters can equip it (because it lacks a "hunter only" tag) is because it's available in an area only hunters have access to.

The only reason it's Hunter only is because it's a Dark Ranger item, and Dark Rangers are Hunters.

BTW, what area are we talking about that only Hunters have access to?

Ah yes, their class order hall.

As I pointed out: we do have inventors within the hunter order hall. By your logic, "only tinkers can invent", therefore those tinkers are hunters.

We have Gnome Hunters who call themselves Hunters and talk about building robotic pets. This attempt at "whataboutism" is pathetic.

You never considering her a representative does not mean she is. Since the beginning it was clear she was inspired in the "Dark Ranger" warcraft 3 hero unit (you know, the game you love as gospel?). Nathanos not showing any dark ranger ability is, again, not a problem because just like many demon hunters and death knights not having an ounce of "demon hunter" and "death knight" abilities whatsoever before their implementation, he would get dark ranger abilities if the class is added, maybe even retroactively.

Except Nathanos is dead now too. With Sylvanas no longer a Dark Ranger and Nathanos in the realm of the dead licking Sylvanas' boots, there's no reason to bring Dark Rangers into the game after this expansion.

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The reason is because you're giving a nod to the other game because it's fun. Like all of these:

https://wow.gamepedia.com/List_of_po...es_in_Warcraft

It could very well just be a reference (and those references are now "canon"). As they say, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

At the very least, is that possible?

It's certainly possible, but it isn't likely, since HotS abilities are utilized in WoW as a source of abilities and concepts. The Demon Hunter class for example took quite a bit from the HotS version of Illidan.

[draugril]

It's certainly possible, but it isn't likely, since HotS abilities are utilized in WoW as a source of abilities and concepts. The Demon Hunter class for example took quite a bit from the HotS version of Illidan.

The Demon Hunter class was indeed heavily informed by Illidan's HotS implementation. But was there an implementation of those abilities in-game prior to the Demon Hunter itself being added? Are we going to be getting a Tiderunner class because we have Murky's abilities in a number of World Quests?

I'm just not seeing that the Expedition Tinker stuff is hinting directly at a playable iteration.

Tinker is more likely as the next class than I'd like to admit, but I don't think that a few borrowed abilities as a reference to HotS contributes to that probability.

[Ielenia]

Thank you for admitting that the Priest and Paladin situation is nothing like the Hunter/Dark Ranger situation. You saying that this evidence doesn't matter is typical of you.

It doesn't matter for the reasons I explained already. The reason I believe the dark rangers were added to the hunter order hall during Legion is because:
• They were not its own class back at the time;
• They share a similarity with the hunter class in the sense that both wield ranged weapons.

Yeah, she did. She doesn't anymore since she left them high and dry at the end of BFA.

And that happened after BfA. Meaning the dark rangers did not answer to the leader of the unseen path.

But Monks still came out before Demon Hunters. In short, the Glaives and Blindfold were never exclusive to a single class, but the hood was.

Again, doesn't matter. What matters is what happened during TBC, which was the time in which the warglaives were actual gear upgrades. Monks would not be using the warglaives during MoP because they'd be a massive downgrade to even the weakest grey dagger that dropped in MoP.

The only reason it's Hunter only is because it's a Dark Ranger item, and Dark Rangers are Hunters.

Actually, this is demonstrably false. I can transmog the Dark Ranger hood on my shaman.

We have Gnome Hunters who call themselves Hunters and talk about building robotic pets. This attempt at "whataboutism" is pathetic.

"Pathetic"? Because it weakens your argument? Also, they're talking about giving their creations free will. I'd say that ranks a wee bit above what you consider "hobbyist engineer".

Except Nathanos is dead now too. With Sylvanas no longer a Dark Ranger and Nathanos in the realm of the dead licking Sylvanas' boots, there's no reason to bring Dark Rangers into the game after this expansion.

Excuse me? When did Sylvanas stop being a Dark Ranger? Where's the official statement saying Sylvanas is no longer a dark ranger? Just because they took a boost from an outside source doesn't change their class. I don't recall Garrosh stopping being a warrior because he bathed in Old God juice.

[Aggressive]

It wouldn't have made any sense under metamorphosis either, since Warlock's version of meta was ranged. Spell casters don't get dodge abilities. That is strictly the realm of melee.



Souls of the dead=/= Undead minions. Warlocks strictly control demonic minions.



Professions aren't designed to take the place of classes. Thus class abilities would be completely out of place in a profession.

I think you are basing your decisions of what warlocks do based on this game but depending on what game you play, the warlocks do raise the dead and control it. basing your opinion on what warlocks can and cannot do is staying narrow minded. Anyways developers can do things with a class however they want. So getting all huffy over what others think and say in this thread is really not worth it.

[LemonDemonGirl]

I think you are basing your decisions of what warlocks do based on this game but depending on what game you play, the warlocks do raise the dead and control it. basing your opinion on what warlocks can and cannot do is staying narrow minded. Anyways developers can do things with a class however they want. So getting all huffy over what others think and say in this thread is really not worth it.

D&D Warlocks can, but not WoW ones. They just summon demons. I think they might've been the basic for WoW's Warlocks, and maybe because Everquest already had a Necromancer class too

[Teriz]

The Demon Hunter class was indeed heavily informed by Illidan's HotS implementation. But was there an implementation of those abilities in-game prior to the Demon Hunter itself being added? Are we going to be getting a Tiderunner class because we have Murky's abilities in a number of World Quests?

I'm just not seeing that the Expedition Tinker stuff is hinting directly at a playable iteration.

Tinker is more likely as the next class than I'd like to admit, but I don't think that a few borrowed abilities as a reference to HotS contributes to that probability.

No, Legion was when you started seeing HotS abilities begin to pop up in WoW. I also wouldn't compare Murky to Gazlowe, since we can play as Goblins. We can't play as Murlocs.

The reason Tinker abilities are important is because it shows a clear dividing line between engineering and the Tinker class, which is lore-based due to WC3. Also the abilities themselves are laid out like actual class abilities instead of your typical NPC abilities.

This video discusses it in greater detail;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c37qf7I5Rk

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It doesn't matter for the reasons I explained already. The reason I believe the dark rangers were added to the hunter order hall during Legion is because:
• They were not its own class back at the time;
• They share a similarity with the hunter class in the sense that both wield ranged weapons.

What reasons did you explain? All you tried to do was say that this situation is the same as Priests and Paladins, something that turned out to be completely untrue.

And yes, all of this matters because it explains why there's no new Dark Ranger class for Shadowlands despite Sylvanas being a main part of this expansion.

Also it does matter because Blizzard wouldn't attach a separate class to an existing class (like Paladins and Priests). Again, Sylvanas, Nathanos, and the various Dark Rangers are considered Hunters by the game itself.

And that happened after BfA. Meaning the dark rangers did not answer to the leader of the unseen path.

She does;

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Lenara

Again, doesn't matter. What matters is what happened during TBC, which was the time in which the warglaives were actual gear upgrades. Monks would not be using the warglaives during MoP because they'd be a massive downgrade to even the weakest grey dagger that dropped in MoP.

Again it does matter because the Warglaives were never restricted to one class. Anyone could loot them, and only certain classes used them due to their stats. Again you can't compare that to an item specifically made for one class that no other class can obtain.

Actually, this is demonstrably false. I can transmog the Dark Ranger hood on my shaman.

You can transmog it if you have a Hunter character that has already done the quest and obtained the look. However you MUST have a Hunter to obtain the hood on your account.

"Pathetic"? Because it weakens your argument? Also, they're talking about giving their creations free will. I'd say that ranks a wee bit above what you consider "hobbyist engineer".

Yes, because having a robotic pet doesn't make you a Tinker. As always there are a set of abilities and attributes that are required that Hunters simply don't possess.

Excuse me? When did Sylvanas stop being a Dark Ranger? Where's the official statement saying Sylvanas is no longer a dark ranger? Just because they took a boost from an outside source doesn't change their class. I don't recall Garrosh stopping being a warrior because he bathed in Old God juice.

She's been imbued with the Jailer's powers now, so no I wouldn't consider her a Dark Ranger anymore. Whenever we fight her, it is doubtful that she will be using any archer style abilities. Also yes, I would consider Garrosh with Old God powers to no longer be a Warrior, but something else entirely.

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I think you are basing your decisions of what warlocks do based on this game but depending on what game you play, the warlocks do raise the dead and control it. basing your opinion on what warlocks can and cannot do is staying narrow minded. Anyways developers can do things with a class however they want. So getting all huffy over what others think and say in this thread is really not worth it.

Yeah, I'm only talking about WoW here. What happens in other games I'm not really concerned with.

However, yes it can be argued that Blizzard purposely used the Warlock class to blunt the need for a traditional Necromancer class.