Should TBC come with a gold wipe? Why or why not?

[chrisnumbers]

Ya, like I said, don't think I can convince you.

Me neither. You can't convince me that taking the active action of deleting someone's time and effort is a good idea.
Which is why creating a new world and leaving the old one intact is the better option. I think more people agree on that than on any other choice.

[Relapses]

There is a huge flaw in your argument: The AH does not magically fill up with gear by itself. Someone has to go get it and then when it’s sold that gold goes to another player.

The issue is if gold carried over into TBC at its current inflation levels almost all services/gear would be trading between people who've already amassed fortunes. You can already see this happening in Classic when you look at the number of people selling power-level boosting for gold versus those who are leveling the old fashioned way. Because new players in Classic are almost non-existent at this point, the services are essentially changing hands between existing players who already have more gold than they know what to do with. (There's also the prevalence of GDKP runs which are only becoming increasingly more ridiculous with every passing raid lockout.)

The issue that I see going into TBC with inflation like this is that this market isn't going to suddenly disappear just because there's a whole bunch of new/returning players; those who already have gold are going to freely trade goods at the inflated prices they dictate. They will have all of the raid mats and pre-raid gear they could possibly ask for and will likely be the first to get raid spots. Meanwhile, new/returning players will become second-class-citizens while they spend months trying to get what those who carried their gold over from Classic got in days/weeks. My concern is that most of these new/returning players who do not already have gold will more likely quit than they will "pull themselves up by their bootstraps and just farm," as proponents of non gold-wipes often suggest. This then leads into a few hypotheticals: 1.) Does Blizzard actually care enough about new/returning players to address this concern? and 2.) if they do, then what's the solution if it isn't a gold wipe? (The only thing I can think would be a Classic WoW token but this is a deeply unpopular suggestion) or finally, 3.) if they don't, the only real solution to problem is for new/returning players to buy gold which is also not a very good scenario.

[NineSpine]

The issue is if gold carried over into TBC at its current inflation levels almost all services/gear would be trading between people who've already amassed fortunes. You can already see this happening in Classic when you look at the number of people selling power-level boosting for gold versus those who are leveling the old fashioned way. Because new players in Classic are almost non-existent at this point, the services are essentially changing hands between existing players who already have more gold than they know what to do with. (There's also the prevalence of GDKP runs which are only becoming increasingly more ridiculous with every passing raid lockout.)

The issue that I see going into TBC with inflation like this is that this market isn't going to suddenly disappear just because there's a whole bunch of new/returning players; those who already have gold are going to freely trade goods at the inflated prices they dictate. They will have all of the raid mats and pre-raid gear they could possibly ask for and will likely be the first to get raid spots. Meanwhile, new/returning players will become second-class-citizens while they spend months trying to get what those who carried their gold over from Classic got in days/weeks. My concern is that most of these new/returning players who do not already have gold will more likely quit than they will "pull themselves up by their bootstraps and just farm," as proponents of non gold-wipes often suggest. This then leads into a few hypotheticals: 1.) Does Blizzard actually care enough about new/returning players to address this concern? and 2.) if they do, then what's the solution if it isn't a gold wipe? (The only thing I can think would be a Classic WoW token but this is a deeply unpopular suggestion) or finally, 3.) if they don't, the only real solution to problem is for new/returning players to buy gold which is also not a very good scenario.

That’s not how markets work. If I have a billion gold and you have seven gold, our identical items will sell for the same amount. The fact that I have more gold only changes how much I can pay, not how much I can charge. You can collect sellable items and capitalize on the prices just as much as I can.

[Flarelaine]

Of course gold reset. Everything about Classic (including it's economy) is toxic and tainted and anything it touched/touches should never be allowed to be a part of anything else ever.

Contain the classic servers and let them live/die on their own.

Classic reminds me of the Standford prison experiment. A social experiment that evolved into something much darker and unrecognizable to what was expected to take place.

Really? I'm having a blast raiding with my guild.

[chrisnumbers]

That’s not how markets work. If I have a billion gold and you have seven gold, our identical items will sell for the same amount. The fact that I have more gold only changes how much I can pay, not how much I can charge. You can collect sellable items and capitalize on the prices just as much as I can.

I've tried arguing this point, but the goal post moves to mafias. Only the people with the most time get to farm mats. The players who play one hour a night will never get anything. (so they claim)

[Relapses]

That’s not how markets work. If I have a billion gold and you have seven gold, our identical items will sell for the same amount. The fact that I have more gold only changes how much I can pay, not how much I can charge. You can collect sellable items and capitalize on the prices just as much as I can.

If you don't think access to an epic flyer immediately on top of the almost-certain bot farming that will happen for high demand items will neither impact their cost nor constrain the farming abilities of those without this immediate convenience then there's little I can say that will change your mind. I think this is a bit of a cop-out as it's essentially pretending inflation doesn't exist.

[chrisnumbers]

If you don't think access to an epic flyer immediately on top of the almost-certain bot farming that will happen for high demand items will neither impact their cost nor constrain the farming abilities of those without this immediate convenience then there's little I can say that will change your mind. I think this is a bit of a cop-out as it's essentially pretending inflation doesn't exist.

What's the difference between immediate flyers and flyers delayed by a week or two? People with 20 hour wow days are still creating space between themselves and 1 hour players. Isn't it all the same, proportionally?

[Relapses]

What's the difference between immediate flyers and flyers delayed by a week or two? People with 20 hour wow days are still creating space between themselves and 1 hour players. Isn't it all the same, proportionally?

"Two weeks" is a bit of an arbitrary timeframe given there's no way to know how fast a new/returning player would be able to grind the requisite gold for Epic Flying. And even then, the crux of my argument isn't that it's impossible, just that by the time it is possible most players will have likely already decided to give up.

[chrisnumbers]

"Two weeks" is a bit of an arbitrary timeframe given there's no way to know how fast a new/returning player would be able to grind the requisite gold for Epic Flying.

True. Then you would also agree that there's no way to know how long it would take them if gold isn't deleted. When I say two weeks, what I really mean is, however long it actually takes.
edit--So again I ask you, isn't it all the same, proportionally?

And even then, the crux of my argument isn't that it's impossible, just that by the time it is possible most players will have likely already decided to give up.

How did you arrive at "most players will give up"? What are you basing this on?

[anon5123]

I wouldn't mind setting a gold cap of 10k or 20k for copying over your characters to a TBC realm. You really don't need more gold than that unless you're a massive altoholic and plan on getting epic flying for 5+ characters.

just that by the time it is possible most players will have likely already decided to give up.

"oh, other people got flying before me, I'm going to give up and not get flying now"

m8
what drugs are you on

[anveena]

It shouldn't come with a gold wipe because that's how it worked back in the day. #nochanges. Also I'd like to keep the 23k I have saved up for my epix flyers

[Relapses]

I wouldn't mind setting a gold cap of 10k or 20k for copying over your characters to a TBC realm. You really don't need more gold than that unless you're a massive altoholic and plan on getting epic flying for 5+ characters.



"oh, other people got flying before me, I'm going to give up and not get flying now"

m8
what drugs are you on

That's not at all what I said nor is it what I meant. The entire premise of this discussion topic is how inflation impacts the virtual economy of WoW. My assertion is that in the face of gross inflation which heavily favors players carrying over fortunes from Classic the average new/returning player will simply hit max level, realize they're entirely out of competition for raid spots due to their inability to quickly acquire goods off the AH and instead of grinding their way up, they'll either be forced to buy gold (illegally) or more likely quit.

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True. Then you would also agree that there's no way to know how long it would take them if gold isn't deleted. When I say two weeks, what I really mean is, however long it actually takes.
edit--So again I ask you, isn't it all the same, proportionally?



How did you arrive at "most players will give up"? What are you basing this on?

"Most" isn't the best word but I don't think it's unreasonable that a fair number of new/returning players would feel a certain kind of way if the only people able to afford raiding post-70 are the ones who amassed fortunes in Classic. Obviously I can't know what "most" people think nor can I even predict whether Blizzard would even consider this a problem; but it's worth at least addressing even if the most likely outcome is that Blizzard does nothing at all.

[Demithio]

This is a funny argument. I recall having to scrape together 100g to buy my first mount. Now gold is falling out of people's bags it seems.

[Laerez]

I never understood why people want gold wipes. It isn't going to do anything. Bot's will still exist, people who buy gold will still exist, people who are good at working the economies will still exist. Wiping gold doesn't make all of those issues magically disappear, in fact the only thing it's doing is just screwing everyone who's been playing the game and working on saving gold for TBC while slightly prolonging the inevitable.

Also plenty of gold making guides on youtube, so if you're someone bad at making gold maybe learn about how you can.

[Echocho]

Can someone link me to the TBC announcement from Blizzard? I've been googling but just can't find it, I'm bad at finding shit. It's amazing news that they'll be releasing TBC and I want to read about it

[Feanoro]

I never understood why people want gold wipes.

Because they couldn't be bothered to work on it, and rather than put in the effort, it's much easier to advocate everyone else being punished for their laziness.

[Kralljin]

because that's how it worked back in the day. #nochanges.

If they're going with that mentality, you will most likely rather have taken the goldwipe a few months into TBC.

TBC shouldn't repeat the same mistakes Classic has made and fanatically adhere to mechanical authenticity.

[swdan]

Literaly every mmo forum is the same. "wipe\goldwipe when?"
wont change a thing except pissing off people.

in two weeks rich will be rich, farmers will be farming, op will be poor and starting another thread.

[Monteverdi]

Here's what I want from TBC classic:

* New TBC servers announced, you can copy your character from Classic to a new TBC server should you wish, with a cap on the amount of gold you bring over.
* Existing classic servers merged into a number of high-population servers, to continue as long people want to play them (though the content cycle is now finished)
* New classic servers released, where you can relive the launch and play through the content cycle, each cycle being a new 'season' just like Diablo.

* Bonus Points (though this will never happen): at the end of a season, you earn titles and cosmetics (maybe even for previously unobtainable items) that unlock in retail based on your accomplishments in classic.

[Freeghost]

58 templates sound like a good idea. I don't see why not. Just don't delete gold or copy characters, and we're good to go!

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Interesting. Can you tell us why? I can't imagine why they would.

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Alliance shamans and horde paladins will have to level from 1, don't you think? There's also the problem of professions. Would they also get boosted under a 58 template?
What if shamans and paladins have to start at 1, and other players elect to start at 1, but low level profession mats are no where to be found because almost no one ever plays 1-58. What then?

Sry, i meant "can't" imagine.