Who's the genius at blizzard who...

[ldev]

It's easy to have a cynical outlook when you dilute everything down to its lowest common denominator so you can construct a math equation where you get the best reward for the lowest amount of effort. You asked why people would bother doing Heroic/Normal when they get equal rewards from their Vault for doing a M+ as if all players are viewing the game through the same ridiculous lens you do. Some people just raid because they enjoy raiding; the Vault is an extra perk not a checkmark in a box at the bottom of a list of chores to do every reset.

I mean "playing with friends is fun" is so obvious, that no one would bring this up. It's also shit game design, because even mundane activities are fun with friends.

[T-34]

People having fun don't take breaks. The game hasn't been fun for a while now.

Blizzard has used this "never ending grind system" since MoP and big time since Legion.
Blizzard exists only, just as any other company, to make money.
You can draw your own conclusions from that.

I can't prove it, but I am pretty sure that a lot of those that complain loudly about "not fun", "grind" etc. don't man up and unsub, they just keep being subbed while whining.
And I am quite sure that Blizzard has plenty of data that shows which systems are best of keeping people subbed for as long as possible.

Anyone here should remember once and for all that Blizzard does not exist to make your life fun, Blizzard exists only to make money for its stockholders, just as any other company.

P.S.
I find this "never ending grind system" annoying as hell, but I am mature enough to understand that Blizzard isn't my "friend". Blizzard only wants the money in my pockets.

[Yarathir]

also, it's either that or titanforge, they can't have both

Says who? Blizzard.
Because they sure could've gotten rid of Titanforging and had sensible loot drop rates at the same time.

[Relapses]

I mean "playing with friends is fun" is so obvious, that no one would bring this up. It's also shit game design, because even mundane activities are fun with friends.

Buddy if you think enjoying a fucking game is "shit game design" maybe it's time to consider maybe the game you're playing isn't for you?

[Yarathir]

There being an abundance of loot has been a major issue in WoW for a very long time. They're finally nerfing loot drop across the board, not just in raids, get used to it.

Without titanforging, you'd be walking around in full raid gear in 2-3 weeks and be done with progression, while none of the items you earned would feel any special. Might as well remove gear entirely then.

That being said though, m+ is still way too op right now and this has to be heavily nerfed as well.

You don't truly believe this, do you?

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Players: "Blizzard took my loot away! I'm quitting!"

The same fucking players: "I can't wait for TBC!"

"haha the classic players like classic even though it is stereotyped as giving little loot, yet dislike shadowlands for giving little loot? OWNED AM I RIGHT!?"

Meanwhile I avoided classic like the plague because of different reasons among which the fact that loot is whack yet now everyone is masturbating over loot being less available just because they can stick it to classic players and throw "gotchas" at them.

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Well clearly you never played before throne of thunder. We in fact did have no titanforging and more loot...oh and more players...

You madman! It can't be done. You can't have loot dropping at a sensible rate and ALSO not have Titanforging. I will not fall for these tricks!

(/s)

[LanToaster]

And I'm not the only one experiencing this. Personally, I think that at the very least the drop rate of items needs to be slightly increased. The best solution though, in my opinion, would be a form of bad luck protection that guarantees us an opportunity at an item after x amount of times of getting nothing from Mythic+ dungeons/raid bosses.

Uhm, you have that, its called the Great Vault, and you get depending on how much you do, the choice of one out of 3(And if you Mix content up to 9) Items.

[aeuhe4yxzhds]

It might shock you but some people simply enjoy playing the game.

But those are extremely few. Carrot on a stick is a very big reason why most people play the game.

[ldev]

Buddy if you think enjoying a fucking game is "shit game design" maybe it's time to consider maybe the game you're playing isn't for you?

Buddy, bye.

[Dawon]

Same for me, in yesterdays normal clear run I got ONE cloak during the whole evening and that was a downgrade so gave it away.
So far in our Heroic kills, I've gotten ONE item too in total, luckily I still use it.

I would want you get like 3-4 items for a full clear as first of all, they need to actually drop, secondly be on a slot you would benefit from them and thirdly actually come with stats that is an increase in power (as the secondary stats are so powerful that even a 15ilev up might not be better).

It's pretty stupid to get 1 item for a full clear, odds are you wont have use for it when you add all parameters required to find an upgrade!

[Yarathir]

I don't understand this mindset people have that this current system is okay. It's not.

Expansion recency. Expansion = new, therefore being critical of any facet of it is tantamount to heresy. Wait until 9.3 and then suddenly it'll be okay to dump on Shadowlands and in fact you'll be called dumb by some of the same people defending this here if you don't do that then.

But now is 9.0, so Shadowlands and all captured within is hallowed and not to be challenged.

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Jeez some of you kids really are spoiled for loot after the last few expansions. "Oh I killed 9 bosses and didn't get anything this game sucks wah wah".

Just be thankful it's not Vanilla > TBC days where bosses drop 2 items and you might not see anything for months on end.

I didn't play Vanilla and I'm not going to play TBC. Why should I care about muh Vanilla and muh TBC and how they handle it.

Also the jig is up on Vanilla considering you guys have been siphoning gear to random streamers' underleveled alts since at least phase 2 and sharing Thunderfuries with each other like they're candy. Nobody believes in "classic = meaningful gear" anymore.

[tomten]

Yea it's hilarious they reduced the loot drops without providing a badge system to compensate. They're playing with fire imo.

The great vault is the compensation and works pretty damn well if you ask me.

[Yarathir]

Yeah, it is entitlement to expect fun out of a leisure activity. /s

Doubly entitled to expect to get rewarded for going into a raid and taking down the bosses in it. We all know people kill bosses just for that sweet, sweat artifa-- azerit-- anima power.

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I don't know, how many other MMOs are out there with 5-10 million people playing the game?

Not WoW lol.

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Removing titanforge was biggest mistake they ever made. m+ is insanely hard with basically no reward at the end, raid drops absolutely no items

I donţ say there have to be 10 drops every raid but atm its little bit too low.

Removing Titanforge was a good thing. The monkey's paw where it also immediately had to result in fewer drops across the board because imagine not having a tight artificial MAU treadmill is the problem.

[Nayami]

I admit it takes some getting used to. Like a whole day of spamming M+ and raids and you barely get any drops (1-2 at best from my experience), and even when you get drops, they might not have your main stats on them so they are minor upgrades at best.

But at the same time, when that bis item you want is finally in your bag, you get a feeling of satisfaction that your item finally dropped and that you won't be replacing it for a while due to rarer drops. Whereas before you would farm the same dungeon and within 4-5 runs you would probably have gotten most if not all of the loot you wanted and you don't feel anything other than "Ah finally I can stop farming this dungeon".

I think they are headed in the right approach and I truly hope that they will not listen to complainers that will unsub from the game regardless since these are people that will always find other things to complain about and just want everything handed out to them (like they did with Torghast which has now become a mob farming simulator like Island expeditions by nerfing it so heavily :/).

[tomten]

Removing titanforge was biggest mistake they ever made. m+ is insanely hard with basically no reward at the end, raid drops absolutely no items

Removing of titanforging was one of the reasons I came back after a 5 year break.
SL overall feels amazing...
I miss a couple things to truly make it "perfect"

1. Let us equip 2 legendaries for some cool combo effects. I don't like having to choose between m+ and raiding.
2. Bring back reforging and every gear drop of good ilvl won't ever feel useless.

And I honestly would prefer badge gear over the vault because I like being able to work towards a specific goal but the great vault is decent for its purpose

[LanToaster]

But those are extremely few. Carrot on a stick is a very big reason why most people play the game.

Maybe, just maybe they should start to look for a hobby that provides fun while doing it, instead of the reward.
Because, in that case its just a Job.

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Not WoW lol.

https://mmo-population.com/r/wow

Unless you procure a source with more reliable data, I think you are wrong.

[LordVargK]

That sounds like argument about shitty sandbox games - "you just have to make your own adventure".

It might shock you, but that's not a great game design.

Yes, people play absolutely everything, good or not, 10/10 for your insights.

Why do you play WoW? Why do you want gear? for what?

Gear is a tool for raiding, not the other way around. Because you don't need gear, if you don't raid. Same applies to every other activity that rewards meaningful gear.

[rrayy]

They removed Titanforging, a system of loot that really shouldn't have been implemented in the first place and didn't really keep people playing longer so, you know... they were just forced to make loot stingy to compensate.

NO they weren't. Ion just has absolutely no clue what the term "happy medium" is/ He has shown that over and over again.

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Why do you play WoW? Why do you want gear? for what?

Gear is a tool for raiding, not the other way around. Because you don't need gear, if you don't raid. Same applies to every other activity that rewards meaningful gear.

Elitist BS. People want gear for progression regardless if they raid or not. Gear makes content easier. This "raid or die" nonense needs to end.

[Yarathir]

Why do you play WoW? Why do you want gear? for what?

Gear is a tool for raiding, not the other way around. Because you don't need gear, if you don't raid. Same applies to every other activity that rewards meaningful gear.

Gear is also a reward for raiding.

If people don't get any after clearing a raid, they don't feel rewarded.

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NO they weren't. Ion just has absolutely no clue what the term "happy medium" is/ He has shown that over and over again.

Ion knows very well what he's doing.

(Sustaining the MAU treadmill)

[bloodykiller86]

Suggested to greatly decrease loot in raids? I'm at this very moment on Sire and not a single drop I got, just anima and gold, anima and gold, anima and gold. Not sure how this equates to good raid design, I don't get it.

its a great decision, gear hasnt meant anything in years! you shouldnt be geared out in 2 weeks, it can take a while like it used to back in the day and you'll always get loot because of the great vault.

[MrKnubbles]

I've been getting loot from M+ but not the raid. Unfortunately, it's all stuff I don't need so I keep handing it off.