Shadowlands: Rapidly Climbing the Ladder in Popularity

[kaminaris]

Well my forum pal, seems like there are more with that kind of OCD.
Altough I hated the way BFA's time gated stuff worked, but I didn't had any bad feeling about how the Suramar gated story unveiled itself behind time gating.

BfA timegated? So grind or timegating? Sorry to break you but it wasn't either a grind nor timegating. It was just issues with people not understanding that BfA AP wasn't as significant as Legion AP. And that comes from not knowing math.

So at the same time I don't have bad feelings about the FIXED weekly renown cap, and the ease with you can cap it on your first hours in reset day. On the contrary, I do like the system very much.

So thats just your opinion, I don't like timegating more than anything. I don't want to have weekly shopping lists and do stuff at my own pace.

Keep in mind, I am a PvP only player,

Then you are far from blizzard target audience.

P.S. As for the Essences, well, you seem to have a short memory and nostalgia already distorts how things were in reality.

No, in fact i have extreme memory that most people would love to have. I know exactly how things worked. First of all if anything can be said about essences, they were timegated (but 2-3 weeks hardly can be called that). And all except pvp ones weren't even a grind. Not to mention you knew exactly which ones you want so you could work towards a goal. While in meantime using R2 or just substituting easy to get one. Difference wasn't so big as some people claim it to be - mostly because of inability to perform basic math.

Are you seriously complaining you had to do dungeon 3 times for 3 weeks and call that grind or timegating? Thats laughable when current "timegated grind" for leggos/stygia is worse.

I remember how some people didn't played MoP cause of the theme, cause they didn't liked Pandas or the asian aspect of the game. And now seeing how many people count MoP as a great expansion it is mindblowing. I personally loved it, it was a fresh continent, fresh race, freash evil (mists).

Thats cool and shit but theme was the last of MoP problems, biggest one was long content draughts, retarded upgrade systems, gigantic class imbalance, pvp had some serious issues with deleting people in 2 gcds. People complain about catchup for alts forgot that MoP cloak didn't have any catchup.

[Queen of Hamsters]

I can "stomach" opinions. Blatant shilling on the other hand...

Maybe learn the meaning of a word before you use it?

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/shill

His opinion is his, he's not "shilling" just because you disagree.

[rrayy]

As for the gear dependent story, well, I've leveled my Demon Hunter to 60 and in the same day I've cleared Layer 3 (max layer at that moment) wings with an ilvl of 133. So it was maybe bad tunning for some specs/classes, but not gear dependent from my point of view.
I went to Torghast just by curiosity, I wasn't expecting to clear more then maybe Layer 1 with a fresh dinged character, but hell, it went all nuts and I've cleared 1x Layer 1, 1x Layer 2, 1x Layer 3; I never clear bother portals at the same Layer since it was not rewarding to do another run for just a fraction of the Soul Ash the first Layers are rewarding. This is the same reason I have cleared 1x Layer 7 and 1x Layer 8 on my main.

Well yeah, you used a Demon Hunter. Those are massively OP. Try it with a mage or rogue once. You will see the difference.

[Kel_Sceptic]

BfA timegated? So grind or timegating? Sorry to break you but it wasn't either a grind nor timegating. It was just issues with people not understanding that BfA AP wasn't as significant as Legion AP. And that comes from not knowing math.

Yeah, the story/plot was so timegated without actual reward in it, FOR ME, it felt like one good episode from TWD or LOST or Breaking Bad, that was split in 10 more pieces.
At least in Shadowlands we get 1 renown for each part of the journey.

So thats just your opinion, I don't like timegating more than anything. I don't want to have weekly shopping lists and do stuff at my own pace.

Well, this is it, I don't like timegated stuff either, but I also don't like infinite grinding. I loved how old TBC/WOTLK xpac were made, where I would clean all quests from the map, and nothing left, quest-based, until the next BIG patch. I love to have shi7 DONE, to have a checklist checked. This is why I accept the acctual renown system more then Legion and BFA's artifact/azerite power infinite grinding systems.

Then you are far from blizzard target audience.

Well, seems like not, since Blizzard learned from their mistakes and really repaired all the damage they've done in the last 4 years.

No, in fact i have extreme memory that most people would love to have. I know exactly how things worked. First of all if anything can be said about essences, they were timegated (but 2-3 weeks hardly can be called that). And all except pvp ones weren't even a grind. Not to mention you knew exactly which ones you want so you could work towards a goal. While in meantime using R2 or just substituting easy to get one. Difference wasn't so big as some people claim it to be - mostly because of inability to perform basic math.

Well, in PvP, 2v2, each power upgrade counts. Seems you are reading only what you want, and twisting it to look like I didn't liked the Essences part of BFA.
I've allready stated that I loved to do it ONCE. Even if I had to do content that I would not want to do (Mythic dungeons+7), (Island expeditions x2 (ap grind + essence grind + adventure missions quests)).
You said that SL is bad for ALTs, I said Essences needed 3 weeks or more per every alt.

Are you seriously complaining you had to do dungeon 3 times for 3 weeks and call that grind or timegating? Thats laughable when current "timegated grind" for leggos/stygia is worse.

Again, 3 dungeons, for 3 weeks, multiply to the number of alts, when you don't like to do dungeons or island expeditions etc.
Torghast take 1h per week, and it is easy to do. You don't have to search for M+ parties, you don't have to depend on others.

Thats cool and shit but theme was the last of MoP problems, biggest one was long content draughts, retarded upgrade systems, gigantic class imbalance, pvp had some serious issues with deleting people in 2 gcds. People complain about catchup for alts forgot that MoP cloak didn't have any catchup.

Hell, if we keep it like these, we can conclude that you only liked the BFA expansion, and prob Legion and that all other expansions were shi7. ))))))))

[Marrilaife]

I'm not subbed, but I talk to my friends who are still playing. They don't encourage me to sub.
- Maw is annoying with no mounting and eye of the jailer basically forcing you out after a handful of dailies / rares
- New m+ dungeons and affixes very melee unfriendly
- Pvp gear being better and easier to obtain than pve gear (I hate pvp)
- Pvp is also very imbalanced and people die in 1 stun
- New raid is much harder than any other opening raid and drops less loot
- Mission table is back and depending which covenant you picked you can have it much easier or much harder than others (wtf)
- Few classes can "pick what you want" covenant wise but a lot of specs are pigeon holed into specific covenants if they don't want to suck
- Only people who are happy are levellers, altoholics and pet / mount / transmog collectors (there's a ton of content for them)
- Alliance is still dead for raiding / m+ community
- Half the servers are still low pop because Blizz didn't care to connect them

I played on the "free weekend" before pre-patch and damn, Blizzard did magnificent job with some of the new customizations, I'd love to play my Night Elves again, but guess what... Alliance is still dead. So what's the point?

[Queen of Hamsters]

I'm not subbed, but I talk to my friends who are still playing. They don't encourage me to sub.

As valuable as friends are, I wouldn't have started playing at all back in WOTLK if I'd listened to jaded friends and people online in regards to this game.

Just a thought.


On an unrelated note, the "BfA was better"-posts came later than the the same phenomenon during BfA and WoD this time around. Quite interesting.

[kaminaris]

Yeah, the story/plot was so timegated without actual reward in it, FOR ME, it felt like one good episode from TWD or LOST or Breaking Bad, that was split in 10 more pieces.
At least in Shadowlands we get 1 renown for each part of the journey.

"at least we are drip fed in SL so I don't have to worry about ocd" meanwhile people are already noticing its not as good as it sounded.

Well, this is it, I don't like timegated stuff either, but I also don't like infinite grinding. I loved how old TBC/WOTLK xpac were made, where I would clean all quests from the map, and nothing left, quest-based, until the next BIG patch. I love to have shi7 DONE, to have a checklist checked. This is why I accept the acctual renown system more then Legion and BFA's artifact/azerite power infinite grinding systems.

Thats good because BfA didnt have any infinite grind till 8.3. You are confusing Legion trully infinite grind with BfA finite grind that had both soft and hardcap.

Well, seems like not, since Blizzard learned from their mistakes and really repaired all the damage they've done in the last 4 years.

Seems like they are doing more damage as even people who used to complain about BfA are suddenly realizing past systems weren't so bad after all and SL gets boring super fast.

Well, in PvP, 2v2, each power upgrade counts. Seems you are reading only what you want, and twisting it to look like I didn't liked the Essences part of BFA.
I've allready stated that I loved to do it ONCE. Even if I had to do content that I would not want to do (Mythic dungeons+7), (Island expeditions x2 (ap grind + essence grind + adventure missions quests)).
You said that SL is bad for ALTs, I said Essences needed 3 weeks or more per every alt.

In PvP skill matters much more than gear. That could be true for pve when you do cutting edge content. As for pvp, skilled player with half of gear of normal dude can easily win. And in WoW you have to put work in alts if you wish for them to be as powerful as your main so no wonder. That is not an issue tho.

Again, 3 dungeons, for 3 weeks, multiply to the number of alts, when you don't like to do dungeons or island expeditions etc.
Torghast take 1h per week, and it is easy to do. You don't have to search for M+ parties, you don't have to depend on others.

Again, if you want to have alts then you have to put work in them as well.

Hell, if we keep it like these, we can conclude that you only liked the BFA expansion, and prob Legion and that all other expansions were shi7. ))))))))

Probably both of them will turn out to better than SL based on people perception.

[Rucati]

Why and when did you even start playing WoW? Because there wasn't a point in time where it was ok for you to play from what I gather

Been playing WoW since vanilla. This is probably the most boring the game has ever been other than maybe Cata, not sure since I quit for most of Cata due to focusing on real life.

[kaminaris]

- Few classes can "pick what you want" covenant wise but a lot of specs are pigeon holed into specific covenants if they don't want to suck

Actually this is false. The only classes with visible disparity in covenants are hunter, druid and paladin. But rest of what you said is fairly true.
And missions table is not that some covenants are easy etc. Its just that new missions are worst possible iteration of all auto chess games, trully a garbage.

[Kel_Sceptic]

- Pvp gear being better and easier to obtain than pve gear (I hate pvp)

Where did you get that information from ?


Lets clear this:

Normal Dungeons drops Item Level 158 gear at Level 60.
Heroic Dungeons drops Item Level 171 gear.
Mythic Dungeons drops Item Level 184 gear.

Keystone Level End of Dungeon
Mythic 2 187
Mythic 3 190
Mythic 4 194
Mythic 5 194
Mythic 6 197
Mythic 7 200
Mythic 8 200
Mythic 9 200
Mythic 10 207
Mythic 11 207
Mythic 12 207
Mythic 13 207
Mythic 14 207
Mythic 15 210


PvP Honor / Battlegrounds
Rank 1: 158ilvl
Rank 2: 164ilvl
Rank 3: 171ilvl
Rank 4: 177ilvl
Rank 5: 184ilvl

Rated PvP
Unranked (from vendor) Item level 200
Combatant (1400-1599) Item Level 207
Challenger (1600-1799) Item Level 213
Rival (1800-2099) Item Level 220
Duelist (2100+) Item level 226
Elite (2400+) Item level 233 *Weapon ONLY


After seeing this, please check what gear do people over at 2v2 Player vs. Player Leaderboards use since it is faster and easier to get.

You can farm Mythic+ dungeons forever, while the Conquest gear from PvP is gated, you can only have 1 item atm, or 2 if you decide to spend the first 550cp on a ring or whatever. But the majority of PvP high rating players are ilvl 193+, that means they are PVE Geared

This is one of my letdowns from blizzard, that PvP gear is still lower in ilvl and takes longer to get then the PvE M+ gear.

- Pvp is also very imbalanced and people die in 1 stun

So was Vanilla, TBC, and WotLK. And many more xpac at the start of the content. Remeber the literraly 1 shot paladin spell in TBC ?

- Only people who are happy are levellers, altoholics and pet / mount / transmog collectors (there's a ton of content for them)

This is funny, since you state one thing, while Yirel says he did that in BFA but there is none in SL.

[Ryonas]

I don't think anything will ever be able to overtake WOtLK for me. But SL is DEFINITELY second! I'm having more fun playing right now than I've had in YEARS.

[Icelin]

Even that map looks pretty unimpressive. (Honesty) That's a bit saddening, so disjointed. Just like how I heard how the zones are not connected. So transportation or zoning in looks a lot like the game TERA. You know Blizzard TERA and every other MMO has nice mogs going for the females. (Everything is not completely unisex and low effort) So it's easier to get immersed and have a fun experience playing. Blizzard has lower end graphics and keep trying to display a form of control over females. I am getting less and less intolerant of it overtime.

I heard multiple people mentioning PVP. People can only hope for this in the new expansion. (Which is a long ways off..small chance they might implement something different in Shadowlands, but I am just being realistic.) PVP has been neglected for quite sometimes. I did believe Warfronts in BFA might've been a neat opportunity to have some PVP but they didn't go this route... maybe they can make something more enjoyable in the future. As updates to old battlegrounds did nothing for me and never made me want to go back in. They need something fresh.

[keldarepewpew]

To be honest i didn't follow the beta much.
I thought Torghast would be more akin to roguelikes, with a more skill based than gear based difficulty and i expected to get some loot or cool stuff from there. I think it would be cool to have random generated solo dungeons that one could run for loot (rather than doing WQs or grinding Dungeons).
But obviously it isn't that.

And with them nerfing all the loot from WQs, if you don't raid or M+ you don't have much to do. I didn't have that problem that fast in BfA or Legion, i mean, it's not even a month after release. And it's funny that you list pet battles because there hasn't been anything new for that for ages. And i have done anything PB related there is to do.
For me a disappointing expansion.

You ignore 90% of the content raiding, pvp, mythic plus. SL was made to cater to these people which is imo a step in the right direction instead of trying to cater to litteraly every type of gamer out there. It just sounds like wow isnt for you. They tried to bring in really really solo casual players in bfa by making wq rewards meaningfull but they alienated their main playerbase by doing that.

[Yriel]

These are my gearing WQ offerings, I'd say 4 slots in one go it's pretty solid to me. Maybe you are just unlucky. But WQ always had ranges in the ilvl they are offering, depending on your actual ilvl.

Hell, this is what I got on my DH ilvl 144, that I haven't touched since I've realised there is enough stuff I want to do on main, I don't need an alt atm.

Don't know what to say, i only have 148 WQ loot, never seen anything else.
I guess you can up this level with reknown ranks but since you can't actively level your covenant outside of the one anima quest each week this doesn't get me anywhere.

So you practicaly are looking for a different game then WoW. Cause gearing in WoW comes from one of those paths, or all together.

Yeah but they could have done that with Torghast, it was practically screaming for it. But they didn't.
It's just another failed (for me) expansion feature like so many before.

You seem to only like BFA expansion features, that most think they were badly implemented, or poorly implemented, or they were forcing you to do them to gear up. (since pvp gear vendor wasn't a thing in BFA, .. so .. yeah)

You asked me what i did last expansion. That was it. I agree that not everything was great, IE could have been so much better and Warfronts would have benefitted from more maps.
But again it was just half baked and quickly forgotten, as usual with Blizzard.
But... big But, at least there was something. Here you only have 2-3 maw quests and once a week a reknown quest, thats it. So yeah, it's boring compared to the two previous expansions.

GL HF my friend, if not in this expansion, then maybe next one. But if you want challanging content, I think Torghast Twisted Corridors will be what you are looking for.

Maybe but when will they be implemented... knowing Blizz that could be next christmas.

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You ignore 90% of the content raiding, pvp, mythic plus. SL was made to cater to these people which is imo a step in the right direction instead of trying to cater to litteraly every type of gamer out there. It just sounds like wow isnt for you. They tried to bring in really really solo casual players in bfa by making wq rewards meaningfull but they alienated their main playerbase by doing that.

I wouldn't be so sure. When the Casuals all stop playing because of boredom they will row back, they always do.
Every Expansion they do a variation of "Dungeons are hard again!" at the beginning and they always row back, probably because people are leaving in noticable numbers.

[Kel_Sceptic]

In PvP skill matters much more than gear. .... As for pvp, skilled player with half of gear of normal dude can easily win.

Well, skilled players that is true, so much harder for the majority of mediocre players, me included, to counter skilled player OR even worse, skilled players with PvE gear that is available right now, as opposed to the PvP gear that is gated. I still am patient in this regard, since I think with numbers, so if I got a 51% winrate with ONLY PvP gear equipped, then I think the system is still somewhat fine.

And in WoW you have to put work in alts if you wish for them to be as powerful as your main so no wonder. That is not an issue tho.
Again, if you want to have alts then you have to put work in them as well.

But when it comes to this type of statements, man do you look like a troll, and from the face that you shi7 on anything except BFA, since the vast majority of people didn't liked it.
Weren't you saying:

- So far alt is only easier for leveling but not for catch up. God I can't even begin to think about alts, because you know, gear... good luck with that.

and now you lecture me that you need to put work in ALTs Jesus the level of cringe and hypocrisy.





People trolling Shadowlands's success sales on day1, are using the fact that "BFA sucked man, everybody wanted to get out of it, that is why Shadowlands "looks" succesful", BUT .. at the same time they are saying stuff like "BFA was better".

I heard multiple people mentioning PVP. People can only hope for this in the new expansion. (Which is a long ways off..small chance they might implement something different in Shadowlands, but I am just being realistic.) PVP has been neglected for quite sometimes. I did believe Warfronts in BFA might've been a neat opportunity to have some PVP but they didn't go this route... maybe they can make something more enjoyable in the future. As updates to old battlegrounds did nothing for me and never made me want to go back in. They need something fresh.

SL has, for me personaly, one of the greatest PvP systems implemented since 2004. I don't really know where you take your info from, but you are talking based of some kind of fake rumours, or vaguely-washed-down-3years-ago news.
At the same time it shows you probably have any connection with the actual state of this game.

Maybe but when will they be implemented... knowing Blizz that could be next christmas.

It is already implemented, it is gated behind the covenant story.

Don't know what to say, i only have 148 WQ loot, never seen anything else.
I guess you can up this level with reknown ranks but since you can't actively level your covenant outside of the one anima quest each week this doesn't get me anywhere.

If you are not Rank 12 with your covenant, then you are playing this casual part of the game in the wrong way.
There are 3 quests each week.
1. collect 1000 anima = you get those even if you don't want to, just by playing whatever you like to play in this game.
2. you get the quest for resquing souls from the maw.
3. you get the covenant quest story.

It cannot be simplier then this, and it takes 1-2hours per each week to complete these in the reset day.

I wouldn't be so sure. When the Casuals all stop playing because of boredom they will row back, they always do.
Every Expansion they do a variation of "Dungeons are hard again!" at the beginning and they always row back, probably because people are leaving in noticable numbers.

If Shadowlands is not casual friendly, my friend, then I don't know what else people could want from an MMO. You want those kind of phone-style, "visit daily-recieve-mythic-raiding-gear" kind of casual, dumb down systems ?

Well yeah, you used a Demon Hunter. Those are massively OP. Try it with a mage or rogue once. You will see the difference.

Dude, I've done Layer 8 with my feral on reset day. And Layer 3 (maximum at that time) with my freshed dingged DH.
Don't give me the "Yeah but you haven't tried to do it with X Y Z" speach.
And to be honest, I would have done it if the pacing of Shadowlands was 50 times slower so I can level the rest of my 15 chars sitting there at lvl 50.
I know there were some tuning issues with some specs or classes, but the earlier statement is from MY OWN experience.
Moreso, people should do Layer1+2 for the biggest chunk of Soul Ash. Or accept the mistakes made by the dev and 1. try to beat the system by wasting some X hours in there to try to climb the layers or 2. accept there are problems in that part and they will be fixed, whitch already happend.
There is no forcing you to do layer 8, like there is no forcing you to do M+15 if you don't want to.
But now Torghast is nerf to the ground so all people can enjoy cleaning it in 10mins layer 8

On an unrelated note, the "BfA was better"-posts came later than the the same phenomenon during BfA and WoD this time around. Quite interesting.

As you can see my posts count, I'm not the kind that sits on forums. But when I've read stuff like "BFA was better, most people say so", it just grinds my gears, as I always refer to my own opinions and experiences.
I failed and felt for the troll wagon, instead of doing what I always do, and that is PLAYING THE GAME

[schwank05]

It is has currently knocked MOP out of 4th Place for me But we will see how it progresses with time on if it can Knock Cata out of 3rd or even Wotlk out of 2nd. I don't ever foresee TBC being knocked out of first as it is the first expansion I raided in and cut my teeth on progression runs so I don't think those rose tinted glasses will ever be knocked off for those reasons alone.

[Varitok]

I mean, It's just BFA and Legion really. Same framework, same endgame with a different skin. I am enjoying it alright so far but I don't see how it's substantially any different then Legion or BFA. Maybe better class design but thats debatable.

It's also been like a month, people are way to fast to throw favourites. This thread is made every expac after a month. The long term is what matters most, having an extreme amount of fun for a month then a slog for the next 13 months does not a good expansion make.

Then again, the WoW community isn't exactly great at pegging good game design. Especially early on. I just don't see where this expansion is going to go for 9.1/9.2 etc. I am basically about to go on Autopilot onces those reps ding exalted. What then? Maw is nearly done (While being an annoying pain), WQ's offer little variety compared to previous two expac (especially this expac, i've done the same damn ones everyday for days on end). Torghast is pretty fun now that the rebalanced it but even that is almost done. M+ is a rush filled nightmare and Raiding is the same as always. I do not see what people do when they praise this as anything different.

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It is has currently knocked MOP out of 4th Place for me But we will see how it progresses with time on if it can Knock Cata out of 3rd or even Wotlk out of 2nd. I don't ever foresee TBC being knocked out of first as it is the first expansion I raided in and cut my teeth on progression runs so I don't think those rose tinted glasses will ever be knocked off for those reasons alone.

Cata better then MoP? That is the worst take i've ever seen. In maybe the history of browsing this forum.

[Kel_Sceptic]

I mean, It's just BFA and Legion really. Same framework, same endgame with a different skin. I am enjoying it alright so far but I don't see how it's substantially any different then Legion or BFA. Maybe better class design but thats debatable.

For me, the biggest differences between them are:
1. PvP gear vendor and reworked PvP gearing system. One of the best implemented to date, from my PoV.
2. Greater Vault rewards only 1 item no matter what content you do. So you don't feel the need to do PvE/PvP just so you get 1 more item. Rewarding you for the content you like to do by giving you 3 items to choose from, and still giving you 6 more choices if you are the type that does all content weekly (PvP and PvE (raid+ M+)).
3. A much better and defined gated power progression system that shows every step for the next 9 weeks. Sure it is debateble if there should be one, or not, but for me this keeps me interesed in WoW's story progression while recieving something new every week. It is similar to how Legion's weapon was, but defined and finit for every week (3 renowns per week, a choore obtainable in 1-2 hours per week) so people with "OCD", myself included, see that the task is done!!!.

How things will workout in the future ? Who knows. But for the time being I am ok with what SL has to offer.
BFA was pretty ok once the grinding ended in 8.3, but turned to shit, at least for the PvP side, with all that grindy Corruption system.

[schwank05]

I mean, It's just BFA and Legion really. Same framework, same endgame with a different skin. I am enjoying it alright so far but I don't see how it's substantially any different then Legion or BFA. Maybe better class design but thats debatable.

It's also been like a month, people are way to fast to throw favourites. This thread is made every expac after a month. The long term is what matters most, having an extreme amount of fun for a month then a slog for the next 13 months does not a good expansion make.

Then again, the WoW community isn't exactly great at pegging good game design. Especially early on. I just don't see where this expansion is going to go for 9.1/9.2 etc. I am basically about to go on Autopilot onces those reps ding exalted. What then? Maw is nearly done (While being an annoying pain), WQ's offer little variety compared to previous two expac (especially this expac, i've done the same damn ones everyday for days on end). Torghast is pretty fun now that the rebalanced it but even that is almost done. M+ is a rush filled nightmare and Raiding is the same as always. I do not see what people do when they praise this as anything different.

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Cata better then MoP? That is the worst take i've ever seen. In maybe the history of browsing this forum.

I only play for Raids and Dungeons and the First 2 Tiers were Fantastic in CATA, and MOP both, but I had more fun on my favorite classes in CATA than MOP. But regardless that is my Opinion, which are just like assholes everyone has one and they all smell, so you know.

[Icelin]

SL has, for me personaly, one of the greatest PvP systems implemented since 2004. I don't really know where you take your info from, but you are talking based of some kind of fake rumours, or vaguely-washed-down-3years-ago news.
At the same time it shows you probably have any connection with the actual state of this game.

I'm sorry, did they add a new battleground I am unaware of? Or any other type of PvP ZONE (Wintergrasp, Tol Barad, Ashran.) that I haven't been seeing people talk about? I was simply stating doing touch ups on old BGS never cut it for me. (I never actually qued to see the changes..) Or events like Korrak's revenge.. (I got the anniversary gift and never went back) Someone wanted to mention PvP has been neglected for a long time. I was just giving my opinion on this: I did participate in PvP zones a lot and don't mind to see a new one in the future. Also promoting more selection for mogs like usual.