Warrior DPS horrible

[Cazze]

Warrior always does bad dps at the begging of an expac(comparatively, with low gear). I remember people were writing off arms as trash tier even 8.3, until they got gear and some corruptions and saw it is actually very strong with gear.

[nocturnus]

Warrior always does bad dps at the begging of an expac(comparatively, with low gear). I remember people were writing off arms as trash tier even 8.3, until they got gear and some corruptions and saw it is actually very strong with gear.

"and some corruptions"

Sorry, but isn't that towards the end of the expansion? Are you suggesting we should wait that long to be viable?

[Schattenlied]

besides being factually incorrect as showed before with actual data that doesn't include irrelevant percentiles.

All of the data I used in the post you just quoted was from the 90th percentile, the exact same 90th percentile you linked in post #70, hence my saying you provided the data.

your notion of what is trivial is about as important as navel lint.

Same goes for your notion of what's important.

Even now ret's ahead in both mythic as heroic raids
Heroic:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st...0&difficulty=4
Mythic:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st.../26#dataset=90

Ret is literally behind arms in your second link right now... Did you even look at it?

You're just making a fool of yourself now.

[Bigbazz]

A lot of arguing over scraps in this thread, it's pointless. Warriors in PVE were shit last week and they are shit this week, but it won't get fixed now until after the world first and maybe not until 9.1.

Warrior always does bad dps at the begging of an expac(comparatively, with low gear). I remember people were writing off arms as trash tier even 8.3, until they got gear and some corruptions and saw it is actually very strong with gear.

The "Warriors scale" myth is alive and well I see.

Warrior has started lots of expansions and/or tiers as a top dps and has either remained or been dropped either through nerfs, lack of scaling or both. That includes Warrior being a top spec in the first raid of every expansion going back over a decade. Even in Highmaul where Arms/Fury got nerfed into the ground on the Beta you still had Gladiator Warriors topping the meters and then after Arms/Fury were fixed Arms especially was topping meters in Highmaul prior to Blackrock Foundry. it started that expansion extremely strong and ended HFC as a class that could only compete on cleave/aoe, because burst scaling classes always win.

Warrior in SL doesn't have good scaling mechanics, there is not a lot of synergy right now. Even in 8.3 with good scaling synergy (haste + TOM) Warriors got outscaled by mages and locks, if you look at the logs Warriors have more top 10 overall showings in 8.0 than in 8.3. So can we drop the myth that Warriors start an expansion bad and get good? That's pretty much never been the case.

[Shelly]

you do realise that in a raid 3.5k-4k is about the normal dps for an arms warrior on average, and thats from actual data from the raid encounters on heroic parses. In dungeons they will be fine as you pop cds and bosses dont live too long for dps to drop.

Most other classes are 1k dps higher on most bosses so warrior is around the bottom for performance. For pretty much every other class is ranges between 4.5-5k ish depending on boss

A sub 25% DPS difference is not a very good average.

[kenn9530]

A sub 25% DPS difference is not a very good average.

the initial post was refering to someone saying thier dps was crap when warrior dps in crap anyway

[Shelly]

the initial post was refering to someone saying thier dps was crap when warrior dps in crap anyway

No, the initial post was referring to how well they were doing. Another one of those "well if it's not a problem for me, then it's not a problem." Kinda posts.

You are correct though in that I misread your post. :-)

[kenn9530]

No, the initial post was referring to how well they were doing. Another one of those "well if it's not a problem for me, then it's not a problem." Kinda posts.

You are correct though in that I misread your post. :-)

the post i replied to was saying the guy was just bad at dps when he was around the average for the class, and warrior is one of the worst dps classes atm.

[nocturnus]

Ret is literally behind arms in your second link right now... Did you even look at it?

You're just making a fool of yourself now.

You do know this changes continually, do you? If you click on the 95th or even 99th percentile, warriors are behind again. Do I need to screen-shot as proof so "I don't look like a fool"? haha

Christ, you'd think someone participating in a discussion about performance would know how to read parses. In stead you're busy defending a point that wasn't valid to begin with because my example was pre-buff; a detail you conveniently keep ignoring, for obvious reasons.

Look, you're obviously fine with your ignorance. Keep it, embrace it but stop bothering us with it.

[Topornic]

I am raiding with a CE guild, as I did during BoD/EP, but breaked during nyalotha. I was in the top 10 during every boss fight on our normal clear of nathria. Generally the top 5. As arms, our dps is perfectly fine. I did have a lot of 99 parses at 184 ilvl though. I was absolutely at the 3k+ mark every pull, generally 3.5k+ every kill. For any warriors to be below the 3k mark is just them being a subpar player. Fury however atm, is absolutely dogshit.

This just means you have a weird raid comp, raid 2-2-6/7 or your other dpsers are just bad. Maybe you can blast bosses crazy fast so that condemn windows are a bigger part of the fight and there is less downtime but I doubt it. On our nm and hc clears I was chilling with 90-95 parses being at best middle of the pack with classes like uh dk, affliction warlock, bala druid and mm hunter doing more dps with 60+ parses.

[Schattenlied]

You do know this changes continually, do you

Yes, I do, it's almost as if the difference between Ret and Arms is less than the amount of variance from one good player to the next and is therefore statistically irrelevant.

Christ, you'd think someone participating in a discussion about performance would know how to read parses.

Yes, one would think that, but unfortunately, you don't seem to know how to read them at all.

[nocturnus]

This just means you have a weird raid comp, raid 2-2-6/7 or your other dpsers are just bad. Maybe you can blast bosses crazy fast so that condemn windows are a bigger part of the fight and there is less downtime but I doubt it. On our nm and hc clears I was chilling with 90-95 parses being at best middle of the pack with classes like uh dk, affliction warlock, bala druid and mm hunter doing more dps with 60+ parses.

I mean, he can just go and do a M+ with this week's tyrannical affix and see he'll get no further than ~4k dps while others easily hit the 6k mark. Unless he's utterly stupid and considers that a marginal and therefore acceptable difference, like some in this thread.

[Crazozourus]

Just a thought.

If warrior dps is as horrible as people claim, wouldn't it theoreticly be beneficial for the raid group as a whole, if every warrior went necrolord?

I mean, how big of a difference is the other covenant abilities dps wise for the warrior, personally, compared to necrolord? 5%?

But necrolords covenant abillity gives two allies +10% crit chance if i recall correctly (i may verry well be mistaken). Would that buff to your group members not result in a higher overall gain for the group, if you could utilize it in a way where it always benefitted your groups two highest damage dealers?
Does sims even calculate the benefit the necrolord abillity grants your party members?

I did that. Banner is tricky but it's still more raid dps than whatever I could do with different covenant alone on fury on bosses. We are only 4/10 m but I was already asked to switch to my hunter or DK.

[nocturnus]

I did that. Banner is tricky but it's still more raid dps than whatever I could do with different covenant alone on fury on bosses. We are only 4/10 m but I was already asked to switch to my hunter or DK.

I would've switched myself if I didn't despise anything with pets.

[Bigbazz]

From recent experience, fury is terrible in m+ but arms does humongous and consistant AOE damage, and top tier ST damage. My 2 cents.

What M+ level? The single target is passable at best and mediocre compared to the strong specs. The AOE is "ok" but nowhere close to MM hunters for example.. The dude I play in dungeons with was bursting 26kdps on AOE packs like 2 weeks ago in Halls of Atonement, Arms just does not compete with that no matter what you do. Arms only really shines on cleave, which is really no surprise because a chunk of the damage it does on larger AOE packs via Sweeping Strikes it's still dealing with lower targets.

Get equally skilled and equally geared players and you see roughly where Arms falls in the bigger picture, the middle pack and that's including the cleave/aoe and feels a lot worse when you consider the huge gap between the top and bottom specs.



Just take a look at the stats for Mythic Hungering Destroyer. Of course these stats graphs don't always tell the full picture, but you don't need to look far to see that people aren't enjoying Arms ST performance.

[Alithia]

Demonology topping the charts? Wow ....

[Jastall]

Demonology topping the charts? Wow ....

To be fair, this is a turret ranged DPS's dream fight, and sucks balls for melee (like most of CN). Sludgefist has an even worse disparity between the two roles, even in Heroic Warriors are absolutely shit at that fight and the only melees that aren't awful are those with strong burst and/or DoTs.