Slice and Dice back seems like 3 steps backward

[shoegazing]

Which doesn't mean it is or ever was any good.

The post I am responding to is specifically making an argument about the animation and sounds for the ability.

I am not stating that SnD is good simply because it's old, and for no other reasons. I am stating that the sound and animation of SnD specifically are iconic to the Rogue class.

[Tenant]

Yet another example of Blizzard fucking with things that shouldn't have been fucked with

Oh no the single sound effect for my maintenance buff is different I'm seething

[shoegazing]

Oh no the single sound effect for my maintenance buff is different I'm seething

The Rogue that I've played for around 16 years is barely recognizable. It's not about a single sound effect, that's just one item on a very long list of reasons why I no longer identify with my character. Yes, I am disgusted by that, and I have every right to be. You don't have to agree. Then again, I don't care at all what you think. I'm going to keep doing my thing.

[Jackstraw]

Oh no the single sound effect for my maintenance buff is different I'm seething

You underestimate how important sound fidelity is for the brain to recognize what's being done at a certain level, which is why Gladiator LOSa was all the rage when it launched (and somehow still is).

[ro9ue]

Just to be clear, I'm not saying specs like Assassination don't need more options for finishers and an extra button or two, and I'm definitely not saying SND is hard to use...

What I'm saying is... they basically copy pasted an ancient ability that seems extremely boring to press. It's also wildly inconsistent from previous things the WoW devs have said:

- Inquisition is a boring maintenance buff for Ret Paladins. (That's still gone)
- We don't like when you press a button to just buff future damage (When they were discussing flat damage CDs)
- We agree with players when they said there is too much passive damage and it doesn't feel like you have any -agency- over your dps

Given those previous developer statements... I look at Slice and Dice and see:

- Boring maintenance buff
- Pressing a button to improve future damage but it has minimal visual effect
- It's literally just passive damage

So instead why not give us something else back? Specifically talking about Assassination here... make a new ability that feels better. I'd love to have Kingsbane back from Legion, or the utility of Smoke Bomb available in PVE to LoS caster NPCs and reduce damage taken by our party. Maybe give us something that at least feels as good as some of the other leather melee like DH and Monks... throw Death From Above into our PVE rotation where it doubles the timers on all active dots or something so we have to use that when we get a good dot set up.

Maybe have this new finisher guarantee a Poison Bomb proc or something that will help with control over AOE damage...

There are clearly people who enjoy SND... and that's totally fine. What I'd say is maybe make it available in place of a talent like Alacrity which kinda does the same thing. Then give us something that feels as new and fresh as what the Demon Hunter and Monk classes have.

[Nuciek]

As a player playing rogue since vanilla I think SnD right now feels bad. It's not interesting, just a maintanance buff with no reward, no gameplay change. It's not problematic, but it's just boring and could be implemented better in 100 different ways. On top of that it feels clunky and bad in PvP. During PvP fight every cp and gcd counts and "wasting" it on SnD feels bad. Rogues in PvP are more about burst then they are about constant pressure so having more preparation required (or a skill that's not used at all) doesn't feel right. Again - it could've been implemented better.

For example make SnD a "proc" cooldown:
After using 5+cp finisher you get a charge of SnD, you can have max 3 charges.
Using the charge of SnD gives you a buff for 8s.
The buff can be extended up to 25s.

It still wouldn't be amazing thing, but would have a simple "minigame" that would require a bit more thinking, planning and thought than just pressing finisher every 30s.
And in PvP it would remove the need to waste important cp for a buff that you're not sure if you're going to even benefit from (kiting, cc etc.). It would also allow better players to time their SnD buff better for better results, which would be rewarding.

That's just one example, but there are so many options. I just feel that in current iteration we got old skill that doesn't really fit current gameplay.

[ro9ue]

Ability is super boring an annoying as hell to feel like you have to press it. But I'll say it does feel less bad for Outlaw because it neatly fits into the hole where RTB used to be. It's still awkward with Sub and Assassin. Sub has a much easier time mechanically dealing with it though because you just get CPs out the ass. But it's just yet another thing to press that sucks to press. Already dislike Symbols of Death for this reason tbh.

Assassination needs something else instead. I think a good AOE finisher would be better or something we really need.

Again I re-emphasize points devs made that I agreed with in the past so I don't know what changed?

- Passive damage feels bad... Slice and Dice just boosts that.
- Buttons you press to boost future damage without their own effect feel bad. It's why we see damage tied to many CDs now.
- They said they don't like maintenance buffs (Inquisition is gone) ... but for Rogue fuck you guys.

Look if enough people like it... let them have it as a talent option, it was fine as a more sturdy finisher for Outlaw if you didn't like the RNG of RTB.. but as a core staple of what the gameplay should be... no... this should be dead. I've been playing this game since 2004. There are things they change for the better, steadily chipping away at SND until it was reduced to an optional talent for Outlaw was the correct place for it.

Assassination really needs a dedicated AOE finisher that doesn't suck like Crimson Tempest. There are a few abilities in the Honor Talent list that I wouldn't mind available for PVE (Smoke Bomb, Death from Above), but to just add this extremely archaic shit ability back into the baseline spec seems bad and after having played it now enough I can say my opinion hasn't changed.

[shoegazing]

- Buttons you press to boost future damage without their own effect feel bad. It's why we see damage tied to many CDs now.

You'll dumb everything down to the same level if given the chance. No planning ahead, just press buttons, deal damage. "Now now now! Mommy I want my damage NOW!"

You should reroll.

[Eazy]

It's worst ability for rogues. It requires 0 brain and it's just meant to be used once in 36s(99% of the time). It doesn't even require to plan ahead at all, because SnD is higher priority than other finishers. If Blizzard(or other people) think that people have problems with prioritizing finishers and it requires UBER SKILL, then they're just stupid.
That ability compared to Kingsbane or the Exang spec is retarded and should be in the rubbish bin already.
Haven't seen any other so NOT-rogueish ability. What the fuck does it even represent? "OW! I decided to attack my opponent much faster for some kind reason!(?)" Total foolery.

"Now now now! Mommy I want my outdated spec NOW!"

Fixed that for you.

[shoegazing]

It's worst ability for rogues. It requires 0 brain and it's just meant to be used once in 36s(99% of the time). It doesn't even require to plan ahead at all, because SnD is higher priority than other finishers. If Blizzard(or other people) think that people have problems with prioritizing finishers and it requires UBER SKILL, then they're just stupid.
That ability compared to Kingsbane or the Exang spec is retarded and should be in the rubbish bin already.
Haven't seen any other so NOT-rogueish ability. What the fuck does it even represent? "OW! I decided to attack my opponent much faster for some kind reason!(?)" Total foolery.



Fixed that for you.

"I base all of my evaluations on an unrealistic scenario where the Rogue has unlimited uptime on a training dummy that doesn't fight back, CC, or have any mechanics"

Get out of your spreadsheets and go play the game lmao

Let me know if you're still pressing SnD "exactly once per 36 seconds, at exactly 5cp, without any thought" when you are getting Feared, Sheeped, Rooted, Kited, Stunned, etc.... noob

[Eazy]

"I base all of my evaluations on an unrealistic scenario where the Rogue has unlimited uptime on a training dummy that doesn't fight back, CC, or have any mechanics"

I just play the game and had a few times where I didn't have to use my SnD every 36s.

Get out of your spreadsheets and go play the game lmao

?

Let me know if you're still pressing SnD "exactly once per 36 seconds, at exactly 5cp, without any thought" when you are getting Feared, Sheeped, Rooted, Kited, Stunned, etc.... noob

I didn't say anything like that.
Do you think that I meant the situations where I was CCed? Are you for real?
Do you have a slightest idea how to comment? I mean, to have a proper discussion? Like 90% of your posts are assumptions, biased informations and "only I have right and you don't" without any proofs or even trying to advocate your opinion. That's just sad.

[shoegazing]

No, this is what's sad:

It requires 0 brain and it's just meant to be used once in 36s(99% of the time).

What a sorry, stupid, JOKE

Blizzard should never listen to players who spend "99% of the time" beating on a training dummy that doesn't fight back, where there is no downtime, where they are never CCd, where they are never dodging mechanics, where they are never restealthing, etc.

[Jackstraw]

People want bettee Rogues but can't be arsed to perform basic class mechanics.

You want the cool stuff Monks and DHs have? Well, maybe Rogue is not the class for you.
Although really given the current state of Sub maybe it is indeed. Instant feedback spec where the hardest hitter you don't have to setup for, just what the crowd wishes.

Such a degenerate design and such naive wishes always lead to catastrophic adjustments.

[Eazy]

What a sorry, stupid, JOKE

Blizzard should never listen to players who spend "99% of the time" beating on a training dummy that doesn't fight back, where there is no downtime, where they are never CCd, where they are never dodging mechanics, where they are never restealthing, etc.

Are you saying that having ~99% uptime of SnD isn't the most optimal way to play? Just answer - yes or no.

[Dessicuus]

Blows my mind you would get a consistent maintenance buff instead of RNG affecting you and everyone complains. It's super easy to keep up, and attributes to quite a large margin of your dps. It's a win for rogue...

[Jackstraw]

Blows my mind you would get a consistent maintenance buff instead of RNG affecting you and everyone complains. It's super easy to keep up, and attributes to quite a large margin of your dps. It's a win for rogue...

Here's a video that sums up most of the WoW fanbase that clamored for ruinous changes that led the game to the first big prune, through some of the more hazardous Legion redesign and finally to BfA:

[Dessicuus]

Here's a video that sums up most of the WoW fanbase that clamored for ruinous changes that led the game to the first big prune, through some of the more hazardous Legion redesign and finally to BfA:

haha that's awesome. I'm personally happy that our DPS comes down to skill and not i GoT fIvE bUfFs. But hey, complain on!

[Alexplode]

It's worst ability for rogues. It requires 0 brain and it's just meant to be used once in 36s(99% of the time). It doesn't even require to plan ahead at all, because SnD is higher priority than other finishers. If Blizzard(or other people) think that people have problems with prioritizing finishers and it requires UBER SKILL, then they're just stupid.
That ability compared to Kingsbane or the Exang spec is retarded and should be in the rubbish bin already.
Haven't seen any other so NOT-rogueish ability. What the fuck does it even represent? "OW! I decided to attack my opponent much faster for some kind reason!(?)" Total foolery.



Fixed that for you.

Do you even rogue bro? S&D it's garbage for assasination, for outlaw is ok and for sub is adding another ball to juggle. Imo S&D for outlaw only

[Eazy]

Do you even rogue bro? S&D it's garbage for assasination, for outlaw is ok and for sub is adding another ball to juggle. Imo S&D for outlaw only

?

I just wrote that SnD is bad for assa.

[Alexplode]

?

I just wrote that SnD is bad for assa.

woops!, replied to the wrong person