Bonus rolls

[Blizzard-ruined-DHs]

Bonus rolls no longer exist, and the Great Vault captures the value they used to provide to raiders. Non-raiders should also factor in the Great Vault, as completing a Mythic Keystone +15 will award a choice of up to three item-level 226 pieces from the Great Vault.

Now that people have been able to clear CN at least twice (more if you play multiple difficulties), can we agree that this was a bad idea?

I just ran all of CN and got ONE item, which of course, was an item I already had. That plus the bad itemization overall in CN, makes it feels like the time spent raiding is sorta wasted.

I fear that despite Castle Nathria being a good raid with fun bosses and a nice aesthetic, players will become frustrated with the raid simply because of the lacklusterness in character progression.

[Throwme]

can we agree that this was a bad idea?

Not at all.

[kenn9530]

Now that people have been able to clear CN at least twice (more if you play multiple difficulties), can we agree that this was a bad idea?

I just ran all of CN and got ONE item, which of course, was an item I already had. That plus the bad itemization overall in CN, makes it feels like the time spent raiding is sorta wasted.

I fear that despite Castle Nathria being a good raid with fun bosses and a nice aesthetic, players will become frustrated with the raid simply because of the lacklusterness in character progression.

Its supposed to take a few months to gear up properly, previous expansions just handed you loot left and right and it just makes things boring

[gaymer77]

players will become frustrated with the raid simply because of the lacklusterness in character progression.

Go play classic and see how quickly you get even a 4 set bonus on tier gear and then come back here and complain about raiders becoming frustrated about not having character progression gear wise.

[rhorle]

I just ran all of CN and got ONE item, which of course, was an item I already had. That plus the bad itemization overall in CN, makes it feels like the time spent raiding is sorta wasted.

As opposed to using your bonus rolls and not getting an item? Your issues have nothing to do with the topic of your post. To counter your bad luck I did the 4 mythics this week and got 3 items of gear and one conduit. So 4 items from 4 runs plus quest. Not bad. That doesn't even include a guaranteed item from the Great Vault.

[Helander]

Its supposed to take a few months to gear up properly, previous expansions just handed you loot left and right and it just makes things boring

Says who?

Wotlk I was more geared in less time than I am now, Cata same deal, mop, same shit, and so on. Blizzard has created an expectation in our minds that after a month of grinding we should expect to be in half decent gear with half decent stats.

I'm in the exact same boat as OP, two weeks of nathria, 1 item, that will get replaced by a better itemized item that's 5-7ilvls lower and 1 unusable item.

So at the rate of 1 item per week, it's going to take me ~4 months to gear up from raids. I should have the entire tier cleared by then, and all the gear I got at the beginning will be irrelevant.

This system insures that only people who are running massive amounts of keys will actually get geared up in time for the next tier. It's another artificial carrot on a stick put out by Ion and his goonies.

I'm not saying we should get free gear, all I'm saying is that the current levels of loot that drop is blatantly disrespectful of the playerbase's time. Look at the shit world first raiders are doing to get geared for mythic, it is 100% blizzards fault and that mentality spills out into the rest of the community.

[Lora]

removing bonus rolls and using the great vault as a substitute was a stupid fucking decision as its still less loot to be obtained. you get a single piece of loot from the vault, which is what you'd of gotten before from just doing m+. just being able to see 9 pieces and choosing one doesnt fill the void of bonus rolls. you can fully go through the raid and get 0 loot which makes it a complete waste of time. having your keys get bricked constantly due to shitters? congrats on your single piece of loot for the party that will most likely go to said garbage players. its sad to say that pvping is a solid way to get gear reliably due to buying it with conquest. granted, thats all worst case scenarios but those scenarios are being encountered by some players and it feels fucking shitty to have it happen when they are doing everything they can do to get gear.

[Blizzard-ruined-DHs]

As opposed to using your bonus rolls and not getting an item? Your issues have nothing to do with the topic of your post.

Bonus rolls allows you to at the very least sorta target specific items. Getting 1 item a raid essentially forces you to do m+ and PvP in order to fill up certain slots. And don't get me wrong - I'm all for having people who do all forms of contents have an easier time getting fully geared. However, it feels like very bad game design for raiders in general.

And no, the vault doesn't fix this. The vault let you get 3 items to choose between a week. I have around 30 items avaiable for me in CN, that makes it about 10% chance to get a certain item from the vault.

Go play classic and see how quickly you get even a 4 set bonus on tier gear and then come back here and complain about raiders becoming frustrated about not having character progression gear wise.

I don't care about classic, I don't wanna play classic and this thread is not the located in the classic section.
Very unnecessary post.

[mrgreenthump]

Only thing I think is bad with all of this is that M+ drops 210 loot and PvP gives easy weapons or trinkets with massive ilevel. Makes you do everything but raid in order to get geared up as a raider. In previous expansions you could just trust that Heroic clear or two got you ready for mythic, but now it's nowhere near the case. Granted all of this will be better next raid tier, because we'll have 226/233 slots on us and M+ season 2 likely wont be a lot higher than that.

[kenn9530]

Says who?

Wotlk I was more geared in less time than I am now, Cata same deal, mop, same shit, and so on. Blizzard has created an expectation in our minds that after a month of grinding we should expect to be in half decent gear with half decent stats.

I'm in the exact same boat as OP, two weeks of nathria, 1 item, that will get replaced by a better itemized item that's 5-7ilvls lower and 1 unusable item.

So at the rate of 1 item per week, it's going to take me ~4 months to gear up from raids. I should have the entire tier cleared by then, and all the gear I got at the beginning will be irrelevant.

This system insures that only people who are running massive amounts of keys will actually get geared up in time for the next tier. It's another artificial carrot on a stick put out by Ion and his goonies.

I'm not saying we should get free gear, all I'm saying is that the current levels of loot that drop is blatantly disrespectful of the playerbase's time. Look at the shit world first raiders are doing to get geared for mythic, it is 100% blizzards fault and that mentality spills out into the rest of the community.

The weekly vault gives you more access to loot that you could actually need and some quests give a guarnteed raid loot.

Expecting to be geared up in a few weeks is just plain stupid and it should never be possible without investing a ton of time into the game.

I beleive the mythic raids should be tuned so they are not cleared in a week, it should take a month at least to bring down the end boss of each tier and most raiders are almost in mythic ilvl loot anyway so they are doing the content in almost the gear it rewards currently.

[Lefrog]

Not sure which game you guys have been playing but I'd be lucky with 1 piece of gear (middle of the tier) a week in BFA. It usually went like this:

Take season 2 in BFA as an example:

By spamming mythic+ in the first two weeks you pretty much had ilvl 400.
Clear normal with shitty 385 ilvl drops. (no drops)
Progress on heroic with 400ilvl drops, replacing on occasion a mythic+ item you didn't get or had better secondaries. (almost no drops)
Get your weekly cache of 410ilvl. (guaranteed at least 1 item is an upgrade at start)
Start progressing Mythic Raid, making weekly cache ever more obsolete. (Here you'd get whatever raid drop chance + 2 bonus rolls a week. I would say maybe 1 bonus roll a week even gave an upgrade..the other was usually gold)

Now take SL season 1:

By spamming mythic+ you are at maximum 210.
Clear normal with shitty 200 ilvl drops. (no drops)
Progress on Heroic with ilvl 213 gear. (beaucoup upgrades)
Get your choice of beaucoup of gear 213-226ilvl from vault. (guaranteed at least 1 item is an upgrade at start)
Start progressing Mythic Raid, vault still not obsolete because it drops same ilvl. (raid gear + at least 1 vault upgrade a week).

[aceperson]

Now that people have been able to clear CN at least twice (more if you play multiple difficulties), can we agree that this was a bad idea?

I just ran all of CN and got ONE item, which of course, was an item I already had. That plus the bad itemization overall in CN, makes it feels like the time spent raiding is sorta wasted.

I fear that despite Castle Nathria being a good raid with fun bosses and a nice aesthetic, players will become frustrated with the raid simply because of the lacklusterness in character progression.

nope. i'm glad bonus rolls are gone. just because the management team decided to be stupid and lower the amount of raid drops too low doesn't make this change bad. it means blizz need to up raid drops slightly.

[Sorshen]

No. The thing that's actually shit is the forced personal loot in raids. We were given the option to pick between personal and ML (with obvious results) and then they decided to force us just cause the .1% know a thing or two about gearing up for progression. That and 4 raid difficulties. Cut 2, merge mythic into Ulduar-style activation in 'heroic' and we'll all be better for it.

[Frolk]

Now that people have been able to clear CN at least twice (more if you play multiple difficulties), can we agree that this was a bad idea?

I just ran all of CN and got ONE item, which of course, was an item I already had. That plus the bad itemization overall in CN, makes it feels like the time spent raiding is sorta wasted.

I fear that despite Castle Nathria being a good raid with fun bosses and a nice aesthetic, players will become frustrated with the raid simply because of the lacklusterness in character progression.

No, i like that it takes some time to get gear, more meaningful than being thrown gear at u.

[DarthSwiss]

Says who?

Wotlk I was more geared in less time than I am now, Cata same deal, mop, same shit, and so on. Blizzard has created an expectation in our minds that after a month of grinding we should expect to be in half decent gear with half decent stats.

I'm in the exact same boat as OP, two weeks of nathria, 1 item, that will get replaced by a better itemized item that's 5-7ilvls lower and 1 unusable item.

So at the rate of 1 item per week, it's going to take me ~4 months to gear up from raids. I should have the entire tier cleared by then, and all the gear I got at the beginning will be irrelevant.

This system insures that only people who are running massive amounts of keys will actually get geared up in time for the next tier. It's another artificial carrot on a stick put out by Ion and his goonies.

I'm not saying we should get free gear, all I'm saying is that the current levels of loot that drop is blatantly disrespectful of the playerbase's time. Look at the shit world first raiders are doing to get geared for mythic, it is 100% blizzards fault and that mentality spills out into the rest of the community.

Lmao. That is all.

[quite an expert in wow]

can we agree that this was a bad idea?
.

no we can not all

[Lord Pebbleton]

I don't like the new system at all.

I have not found a single piece of gear in CN normal, and just one in raid finder (sidegrade).
Weekly chest gave me an item for a slot where I already had a legendary.

I have raised my equip by maybe 2 ilvl in the course of the week and I still have rare quality bracers. I used to be very involved with gearing and staying ahead of the curve, but now, not anymore. What is the point in that? My shitty ilvl is a mix of me finding the same slot all the time and of me not finding any loot at all. I could skew the ratio a bit in my favour if I played for ten hours a day, as to have more and more chances at getting loot, but that's not really a solution.

I lost my drive to gear up, something I usually lost after decking out in at least heroic raid gear. It is just not worth the hassle. If loot comes my way by raiding with the guild, that's fine. If loot doesn't come because of a weird ass system where the game decides that my efforts must be repayed with 35 anima, that's also fine. Not worth stressing over it.

[Sunderella]

its frustrating when after like 20 keys done, I have one item to show for it but I like this better than being hit with useless loot in my face. At least, if one day I get a piece of loot it will probably feel rewarding.

[Rusken]

Now that people have been able to clear CN at least twice (more if you play multiple difficulties), can we agree that this was a bad idea?

I just ran all of CN and got ONE item, which of course, was an item I already had. That plus the bad itemization overall in CN, makes it feels like the time spent raiding is sorta wasted.

I fear that despite Castle Nathria being a good raid with fun bosses and a nice aesthetic, players will become frustrated with the raid simply because of the lacklusterness in character progression.

If you feel like your time spent raiding is wasted because you didn't get all the loot you wanted in one run then I believe you're playing the wrong game.

[sylenna]

bonus rolls would give me at least another chance to get anything worthwhile out of a dungeon. you enter in m+, pelt your way through mobs for 30-45 minutes, receive your 35 anima and a bit of gold and (not directly perceivable) +1 something in some great vault which may or may not be a disappointment in one to six days.

it wouldn't have hurt to have some sort of JP/VP currency return so that you would be able to, let's say, open some orb which contains one item of all eligible items from one dungeon you did. but no, now i have to spend every minute doing stuff whilst holding out on playing other characters or even games. did for or five m+ back to back on saturday and always got my 35 anima. nothing else. wait, that's wrong. there WAS a quest for a 213 item, but that isn't the norm.