Cyberpunk 2077

[omeomorfismo]

A game that claims to "redefine how we see open world" isn't setting the bar to mediocre.



12 years in between those two games.

and? standard still doesnt mean top notch

[Cringefest]

and? standard still doesnt mean top notch

Set a standard: to perform an activity at a level that other people have to try to achieve.

[omeomorfismo]

Set a standard: to perform an activity at a level that other people have to try to achieve.

a level of quality, especially one that people think is acceptable
https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionari...ish/standard_1

clearly the top notch isnt that.
and i mean, half of the attraction of gta is jerking off murdering civilians and polices. clearly most of the focus would be around that, unlike cp77 where you arent suppoused to be a murderhobo and the police is meant to annichilate you (then yes, the balance is pretty off, but thats standard rpg...)

[Verdugo]

and? standard still doesnt mean top notch

If you want to lower the standard, sure.

i dont even know anyone that finished or even started the story...

Thats funny, I dont know anyone that finished story in Cyberpunk because their save managed to shit itself before that.

[Cringefest]

a level of quality, especially one that people think is acceptable
https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionari...ish/standard_1

clearly the top notch isnt that.
and i mean, half of the attraction of gta is jerking off murdering civilians and polices. clearly most of the focus would be around that, unlike cp77 where you arent suppoused to be a murderhobo and the police is meant to annichilate you (then yes, the balance is pretty off, but thats standard rpg...)

I mean what do I even reply to something like this. Ah well. I tried. I'll just wait for Fencers.

[omeomorfismo]

If you want to lower the standard, sure.



Thats funny, I dont know anyone that finished story in Cyberpunk because their save managed to shit itself before that.

yes if you start to exploit the infinite money, realistically nobody craft so much to crash the game.
its a bug, sure, it will be patched like every single rpg

[Captain Proton]

Yeah well, that's how it is unfortunately. I compared a 2020 title, in production for 8 years. To a 2008 title. If you don't think that's fair I'm sorry, but that's on you.

Because you say "thats how it is" doesn't make it si. GTA 4 is one of the highest rated games of all time. Majority of games, open world or not, don't live up to it. GTA since 3 has had metacritic scores of 93-98%. Thats not standard for any genre of game. Other modern open world games don't even do it as well as GTA4. It has nothing to do with age, Rockstar games are so above the standard. If you think being the best at what they do being standard id love to live in your bubble.

[Cringefest]

Because you say "thats how it is" doesn't make it si. GTA 4 is one of the highest rated games of all time. Majority of games, open world or not, don't live up to it. GTA since 3 has had metacritic scores of 93-98%. Thats not standard for any genre of game. Other modern open world games don't even do it as well as GTA4. It has nothing to do with age, Rockstar games are so above the standard. If you think being the best at what they do being standard id love to live in your bubble.

This discussion is becoming increasingly surreal.

[neocount]

If you want to lower the standard, sure.



Thats funny, I dont know anyone that finished story in Cyberpunk because their save managed to shit itself before that.

I've finished the story twice now. Got over a 100 hours in the game so far.

[Captain Proton]

This discussion is becoming increasingly surreal.

Right? Getting called out on your bullshit definitions that you made up must burst your bubble.

[Fencers]

First of all, I'm not claiming you can't enjoy this game. I said that a few times now. I'm saying it's objectively failing at what it's trying to be.

I'm going to pare this down for brevity because I don't want to get too off-topic.

But there is no basis anywhere that vague and mostly emotional language can define a thing objectively. All you are doing is describing, or rather outlining, a set of criteria. Which no one is beholden to at all.

Many artists & creators have changed or omitted elements that commonly refer to a genre- Miles Davis, Rashied Ali, David Yow, Disco Inferno, etc. That is how new and hybrid genres get created or are redefined in some cases (Coltrane, Blakely, Coleman, Magazine, etc).

I do not know a single person knowledgeable in the drums/music who would claim Zach Hill is a faulty or "bad" drummer for running through a range of styles atypical to the genre conventions, for example. Imagine anyone serious about music applying this notion widely to Clipping or Death Grips. Considering the widely held high regard of both, I would be pretty amused, to say the least at such a claim.

I would be inclined to agree with your position (again, I do take genre definition seriously) on CP2077 if you worded it as not being an objective measure defined in any way. You can not just say, "In GTA you can open a door and a window!" and think that is a quantifiable and objective measure of a "standard". That merely demonstrates different types of interaction and does not account for the creator's choice or audience context.

Maybe CDPR made an artistic choice not to have a car to react bullets in the same way as another game? Maybe CDPR don't want you opening windows? There is no objective standard that opening a window is required to be X or Y game genre or a game is faulty on the basis of opening windows.

An artist can make whatever they want and call it anything they want. There is simply is no limit and the contra view is a form of fascism (this is what I was referencing early). How the audience receives the art is their own business.

If I made a dish whereby I presented noodles, broth, and carrots each in a separate bowl on their own and called it "soup"; the dish is not faulty for being outside the genre of soup. I have had this dish by the way, Le Petite Folie. You may not like my soup, think it doesn't qualify as soup, or think it is a 'bad' dish. All that is fine. However, there exists no objective standard that is applicable to what makes a soup strictly. We only have what we usually consider to be a soup- which again, I would agree in an immediate sense.

Not all lasagna have bechamel, not all have meat, some don't even have pasta. You don't have to eat lasagna a certain way. At all.

There is no objective truth to the genre of lasagna.

[Thelyron]

You guys are all blind to the actual problem of this game.

The "big" bust size is too small.

[Cringefest]

Right? Getting called out on your bullshit definitions that you made up must burst your bubble.

Oh yeah absolutely dude. I must... delta now.

[Captain Proton]

Oh yeah absolutely dude. I must... delta now.

All you had to do is show how one of the highest rated games is a industry standard for the genre but as usual you don't have a response because you're just making shit up.

[Saltysquidoon]

I find it hilarious you keep saying GTA is the standard for open worlds when its not. Rockstar is so above and beyond that standard. No one makes open world games like Rockstar. You couldn't be more dishonest in your comparison.

What is the 'standard' for an open-world game? I mean if features like a driver ai existing is above the standard then why did the getaway have a better one 18 years ago?

and i mean, half of the attraction of gta is jerking off murdering civilians and polices. clearly most of the focus would be around that, unlike cp77 where you arent suppoused to be a murderhobo and the police is meant to annichilate you (then yes, the balance is pretty off, but thats standard rpg...)

Please keep posting COPE this hard, you're trying to tell me this is the industry standard for a wanted system? Is this CDPR's vison?

I guess we know what

"So I would compare it to The Witcher 3 where if you chopped off the head of a villager in the middle of nowhere the guards wouldn’t show up out of nowhere. But if you’re in a big town and someone from the guard sees you and the people nearby run away screaming for help, people will come and try to stop you and they’re going to be usually pretty powerful."

Meant now.

[Selastan]

So my third character build is starting to be pretty fun. I'm intending to 100% the game on this one, and made the simplest character I could think of: Body/Reflex melee build. Trying to roleplay a street kid V who likes classic Kung Fu action and samurai movies (they exist in the Cyberpunk timeline, right?), and is almost addicted to adrenaline and action. It fits my goal better than I thought it would. Running around from marker to marker to 100% the game fits very well with the character. Building a character with a ton of health and who's M.O. is to just stroll in and dice everyone with a katana is actually super beneficial as well. If I tried to do this all with my crafting character who had to loot everything or my stealth hacker, it would take forever to do every mission like that. Deciding to do it with a cyborg blender on an adrenaline high worked out pretty damned well. I'm even doing it on the hardest difficulty and I'm finding this completionist attitude very beneficial as it helps me overlevel any challenge. Might even start speccing into crafting to get the best gear, as I'm certain with every quest done I'll start running out of blade and athletic perks to unlock, making sure I get the best gear on top of having high stats.

[Cringefest]

I'm going to pare this down for brevity because I don't want to get too off-topic.

But there is no basis anywhere that vague and mostly emotional language can define a thing objectively. All you are doing is describing, or rather outlining, a set of criteria. Which no one is beholden to at all.

Many artists & creators have changed or omitted elements that commonly refer to a genre- Miles Davis, Rashied Ali, David Yow, Disco Inferno, etc. That is how new and hybrid genres get created or are redefined in some cases (Coltrane, Blakely, Coleman, Magazine, etc).

I do not know a single person knowledgeable in the drums/music who would claim Zach Hill is a faulty or "bad" drummer for running through a range of styles atypical to the genre conventions, for example. Imagine anyone serious about music applying this notion widely to Clipping or Death Grips. Considering the widely held high regard of both, I would be pretty amused, to say the least at such a claim.

I would be inclined to agree with your position (again, I do take genre definition seriously) on CP2077 if you worded it as not being an objective measure defined in any way. You can not just say, "In GTA you can open a door and a window!" and think that is a quantifiable and objective measure of a "standard". That merely demonstrates different types of interaction and does not account for the creator's choice or audience context.

Maybe CDPR made an artistic choice not to have a car to react bullets in the same way as another game? Maybe CDPR don't want you opening windows? There is no objective standard that opening a window is required to be X or Y game genre or a game is faulty on the basis of opening windows.

An artist can make whatever they want and call it anything they want. There is simply is no limit and the contra view is a form of fascism (this is what I was referencing early). How the audience receives the art is their own business.

If I made a dish whereby I presented noodles, broth, and carrots each in a separate bowl on their own and called it "soup"; the dish is not faulty for being outside the genre of soup. I have had this dish by the way, Le Petite Folie. You may not like my soup, think it doesn't qualify as soup, or think it is a 'bad' dish. All that is fine. However, there exists no objective standard that is applicable to what makes a soup strictly. We only have what we usually consider to be a soup- which again, I would agree in an immediate sense.

Not all lasagna have bechamel, not all have meat, some don't even have pasta. You don't have to eat lasagna a certain way. At all.

There is no objective truth to the genre of lasagna.

Yes some people have the abilty to break boundaries. I'm not sure how that counters the fact that those boundaries are indeed in place.

The two videos of Zach Hill you linked is just him playing some modern urban slightly harder than usual hip hop drumming. Top quality of course and inspiring absolutely but not really groundbreaking. That's a genre. A style of drumming, characterised by a set of, well... criteria.

Maybe CDPR made their world less interactive on purpose. Given the state of other aspects of this game I would guess it was simply rushed out, but to be honest who cares. I find your statement a bit unfair. This isn't something you'd say outside the confines of this conversation, I'm sure. I mean how much more do we need to get a clear picture about this product here. I mean look at these comparison videos. This was an abysmal release.

That's where we disagree. I find your vision of art quite outdated to be honest. A byproduct of the twisted individualism of the past decades. We need find that sense of lost community and we won't if we're all islands and we're all right and everyone else is wrong. Your view, believe it or not is much more conservative that you'd think. Let's call lasagna, lasagna, jazz jazz and a flaccid release a flaccid release. It's the way forward!

[yasiru]

Yawn...maybe there should be two threads for this game, one for people wanting to discuss the game itself, as in gameplay etc, and the other for everyone to just agree/disagree that CDPR is now the devil or not, cringemoron to keep trolling, people posting youtube videos to prove they're right, etc etc

[Fkiolaris]

Yawn...maybe there should be two threads for this game, one for people wanting to discuss the game itself, as in gameplay etc, and the other for everyone to just agree/disagree that CDPR is now the devil or not, cringemoron to keep trolling, people posting youtube videos to prove they're right, etc etc

I second this, but don't expect it.

[Thelyron]

Yawn...maybe there should be two threads for this game, one for people wanting to discuss the game itself, as in gameplay etc, and the other for everyone to just agree/disagree that CDPR is now the devil or not, cringemoron to keep trolling, people posting youtube videos to prove they're right, etc etc

Tried to do that once for Anthem. Thread got locked, i got made fun off, and i think i got infracted.