Bonus rolls

[Blizzard-ruined-DHs]

From what I gather here, people have been really lucky with bonus rolls the last expansions. from the 3 weekly bonus rolls, i usually got jack shit (disappointing amount of gold, borrowed power, or if an item decided to drop it was the wrong one). I for one like the new system, at least now you have the chance for getting an actual item, and you even get to choose from a list that potentially contains an upgrade. I really don't see how you prefer the massive rng of bonus rolls against the certainty of an item.
And those with the pink goggels thinking back to wotlk/cata, 2 loot pieces dropping for 10 man, 4 for 25, it's not like a raid guaranteed you an item back then either, and this was pre-bonus-rolls.
RNG has been and will always be RNG, at least with the great vault they took a step back and give you choice.

So your argument is that because bonus rolls is RNG, therefor the system we have now (which involves more RNG) is better?
Bonus rolls would allow players to target specific items at a greater rate than what is possible right now. For example if you really needed a better weapon, you could bonus roll on Denathrius and/or the other boss that drop a weapon token for your class.

The weekly vault is not the same simply because it doesn't allow targeting at all. Personally I have around 30 items avaiable in CN. This means that the weekly vault gives me an additional chance of getting 10% of those items to choose 1 item from.

Also, 25 man raids did NOT drop 4 items back in Cataclysm. I was sure it was 5 items per raid but I went and looked at old kill videos and it seems to be 6 items PLUS tokens in 25 man raids.


But again, I'll repeat what I said in the first post.
Many people seems to have an idea that less loot => people will be running CN for longer time => content will last longer.
My prediction (and fear, because CN is actually a good raid) is that this won't be the case and that players will simply get frustrated with the rewards in the raid being to minimal and insignificant it will put them off of raiding (and possible the game) in general.

[Ifrica]

So your argument is that because bonus rolls is RNG, therefor the system we have now (which involves more RNG) is better?
Bonus rolls would allow players to target specific items are a greater rate than what is possible right now. For example if you really needed a better weapon, you could bonus roll on Denathrius and/or the other boss that drop a weapon token for your class.

The weekly vault is not the same simply because it doesn't allow targeting at all. Personally I have around 30 items avaiable in CN. This means that the weekly vault gives me an additional chance of getting 10% of those items to choose 1 item from.

Also, 25 man raids did NOT drop 4 items back in Cataclysm. I was sure it was 5 items per raid but I went and looked at old kill videos and it seems to be 6 items PLUS tokens in 25 man raids.


But again, I'll repeat what I said in the first post.
Many people seems to have an idea that less loot => people will be running CN for longer time => content will last longer.
My prediction (and fear, because CN is actually a good raid) is that this won't be the case and that players will simply get frustrated with the rewards in the raid being to minimal and insignificant it will put them off of raiding (and possible the game) in general.

So instead of trying to understand my logic, you decide to nitpick on the amount of items i mentioned from 10 year old expansions?

I agree with you, for targetting an item, bonus rolls might have been a better system, i'm not disputing that.
what i am disputing is what most people complain about, is the amount of loot they get due to not having bonus rolls.
right now, you have a guaranteed item in your vault, and with a bit of effort, probably higher ilvl than the current raid content you are working on. and if a casual like me can unlock the choice between 6 items (2 from raid, 3 from m+, one from pvp), i'm sure there'll be a viable option for most players, at this point of the expansion.
with bonus rolls, there was no guaranteed item, that's what i was getting at.
same with the old raids, you had ML and a fix set of drops, but you were not sure that you'd get an item (unless DKP/epgp hoarding if you were in a guild)

[xblubbx]

It's rather funny that your post kinda contradicts the shitstorm blizz got over the last few years.

It's the same like everywhere else, you hear the negative voices louder. A lot of people were fine with titanforging. It didn't make a rekill completely useless, and it was also introducing less RNG because you were not depending on your BIS stats item to drop, but could simply replace it with a non BIS stats item that forged. In the end a mythic raider always has better gear than a heroic raider. Issues were felt for example by people who want to raid for the "BIS gear" and never log into that char again but continue with an alt. Also it was brought up as an argument that titanforging would make World first race more luck dependend, but you see how it turns out now, as now you REALLY have to be lucky to get an item, and people are leveling up the same class MANY times, way more extreme than it was before. So to me all arguments against titanforging turned out void.

[erifwodahs]

In WoW long-term gearing is not working anymore, since you have a new raiding tier every 3-4 months.

Do you even play this game? I don't think you do... Anyway, gz on destroying any credibility you could have had. I mean not much because for some stupid reason you had to shit on classic in completely unrelated post. Way to go, bud..

[Blizzard-ruined-DHs]

So instead of trying to understand my logic, you decide to nitpick on the amount of items i mentioned from 10 year old expansions?

I agree with you, for targetting an item, bonus rolls might have been a better system, i'm not disputing that.
what i am disputing is what most people complain about, is the amount of loot they get due to not having bonus rolls.
right now, you have a guaranteed item in your vault, and with a bit of effort, probably higher ilvl than the current raid content you are working on. and if a casual like me can unlock the choice between 6 items (2 from raid, 3 from m+, one from pvp), i'm sure there'll be a viable option for most players, at this point of the expansion.
with bonus rolls, there was no guaranteed item, that's what i was getting at.
same with the old raids, you had ML and a fix set of drops, but you were not sure that you'd get an item (unless DKP/epgp hoarding if you were in a guild)

What you're essentially saying is that the gearing system in raids is fine, because if you do other content like m+ you might get gear upgrades and you think this is a good system?
Also, bonus rolls have BLP. As far as I'm aware the weekly vault has no such thing.

Also I didn't nitpick anything. You brought up wotlk and cata as an example and I just pointed out that you were wrong.

IF you only play the game to get loot, sure maybe. I find it really hard to believe you've ran a raid 5 times though that hasn't even been out for 5 weeks, but who am I to question you.

A core part of an MMORPG is character progression. If this character progression is flawed, then the enjoyment of the game suffers.
Raiding is fun of course, especially the first time. But after the raid is on farm the main motivating force is GEAR.

If that wasn't the case, then we could simply just remove gear from the game and let people play it simply "for fun", right?

[kenn9530]

Actually, running the raid 3-4-5 times without getting a single item is way more boring.

If your only raiding for gear then your not going to have fun anyway, raiding mythics is about the extra challenge and the gear is just a bonus so killing a boss with less gear you get more of an acheivement than overgearing it.

Can you guys already go back playing classic? Ah wait, it is dead due to how long it takes to gear, and how unrewarding raids are.

In WoW long-term gearing is not working anymore, since you have a new raiding tier every 3-4 months. When people step in the raid, they expected, challenge AND rewards for that. Meanwhile, it can take u weeks to clear CN on mythic difficulty, and with current loot system u will be crazy lucky to get more than 2-3 items from the raid

If you get too much gear then the game just becomes way too easy and there is very little reason to play, the gearing the way it is does work simple as that, your not supposed to get showered with loot and be geared in a month, getting an upgrade should have meaning, clearing mythic raids should take most guilds serveral months not done in weeks or the first month, skilled players will always clear the content fast while the more casual players take a few months or more to finish and you will have plenty gear by then.

[csguba]

I think the new system is great, bonus rolls were stupid it's just more RNG and the old weekly chest even further RNG. Being able to increase your odds of getting good upgrades is great and gives incentives for doing more content to a high level too if you want to.

I do wonder if they should increase the loot dropped in the raids but I am mostly happy. For the record I've killed 9 hc bosses in total now with one drop. It does feel more meaningful but kinda feelsbad too. Very happy to not have bonus rolls though.

[Xalvia]

gtfo with bonus rolls

[Kuruption]

I hated bonus rolls.

The new system is fine, people are just so used to getting geared up in a week or two that they haven't adjusted yet.

[HCLM]

Do you even play this game? I don't think you do... Anyway, gz on destroying any credibility you could have had. I mean not much because for some stupid reason you had to shit on classic in completely unrelated post. Way to go, bud..

Do you even play this game?

BFA raid tiers releases:

Uldir Sept 11
Bod Jan 29
Crucible April 23
EP July 16
Nya 28 Jan.

Now u can count how long tiers last in average, if you even know how to calculate that...

Gz on destroying any credibility you could have. Forum warrior

[Arainie]

That's okay, the more of a traditional MMORPG WoW steers towards the better. If losing a part of the audience [the part that lose interest if the size of the carrot shrinks] is the price we pay then I'm all for it, the question is if that actually happens and how Blizzard will react to it.

[Alroxas]

BFA raid tiers releases:

Uldir Sept 11
Bod Jan 29
Crucible April 23
EP July 16
Nya 28 Jan.

To be fair, I wouldn't count Crucible as a "raid tier" maybe half a raid tier at best.

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gtfo with bonus rolls

I hated bonus rolls.

The new system is fine, people are just so used to getting geared up in a week or two that they haven't adjusted yet.

I think the new system is great, bonus rolls were stupid it's just more RNG

And others, the GV is just as RNG considering the system in whole. For instance, the GV doesn't pull from the last two bosses of X difficulty until you've cleared at least 1 of the 2 last bosses of Nathria in said difficulty. Moreover, for raid loot, you need a minimum of 3 kills on different bosses of X difficulty.

Yea, one could do multiple M+ and get additional choices but those choices pull from the dungeon loot pool and not the raid's. So if you really wanted to maximize chances at BiS item from raid, then you can't just do more M+ to get a chance at it.

And lastly, the KEY difference is that the GV doesn't allow you to target your loot chances. Specifically, let's say that Xy'mox drops my BiS item, in the old system (aka loot rolls), I could fight Xy'mox up to 5 times in a week and use each bonus loot roll on him for a chance at the BiS item. Whereas with the GV, I can get up to 3 choices per week if I defeat all 10 bosses in Nathria. And even then my chances are 3 out of 35 versus 5 loot rolls from a table of 3 items off Xy'mox (using Monk as example).

[ablib]

lol. I can't believe I'm reading that one piece a week from a raid is not enough. FFS this game is filled with whiny entitled babies.

[HCLM]

lol. I can't believe I'm reading that one piece a week from a raid is not enough. FFS this game is filled with whiny entitled babies.

1 loot piece a week means u can never be fully mythic geared before new raid is released if you focus only on mythic raids. Even if u get lucky with vault it is 7 weeks to gear up.

[Obviousprime]

While I do agree that gearing worked too fast in Legion/BFA, I think it's rather hilarious that certain people are so on the "gear is back to mean something" train. As a couple of people pointed out already, the gear will be absolutely meaningless with the next tier, which is usually in a 4-5 month cycle. Will feel real good when people raided/farmed for 3-4 months straight only to have their gear be instantly invalidated because gear will be adjusted upwards. Gearing slowly with FOUR different tiers of raid difficulty is just not possible...... LFR to mythic is an ilvl difference of 39......

[Tiwack]

While the vault is a cool concept, it doesn't beat the accruing of badges over time to exchange for that gear upgrade that's been evading you for months, dragging your average gearscore down and making you wonder what you're doing with your life, playing the slots in blizz's casino while in the dark of what the actual odds are.

[Crispin]

Still much faster than it was in vanilla and BC tbh.

There's no need to hit BiS in 2 months, the next raid won't be out for some time.

[Aggrophobic]

If your only raiding for gear then your not going to have fun anyway, raiding mythics is about the extra challenge and the gear is just a bonus so killing a boss with less gear you get more of an acheivement than overgearing it.

Rewards are a big part of it. Always was. The sams is true in every Blizzard game.

- - - Updated - - -

IF you only play the game to get loot, sure maybe. I find it really hard to believe you've ran a raid 5 times though that hasn't even been out for 5 weeks, but who am I to question you.

Where did I sau I was talking about me?
Try reading first, why don't you?

[Your Mommy]

Making it so bosses drop only two pieces of loot (If you're in a 12-18 raid size) is really stupid.
I can understand it being worth it if you were in a guild but they gotta think about the people who pug as well.

[Soluna]

Go play classic and see how quickly you get even a 4 set bonus on tier gear and then come back here and complain about raiders becoming frustrated about not having character progression gear wise.

Well classic is a trash game though. It used to be good back in its day, only boomers like it now or people who can't do more than frostbolt or flash of light spam.

Trust me, I know cause I played it, and I got sick of this bs right before naxx, as well as shitty rng gear that is worse than all of the rng on retail combined, and the source of all guild drama.