Shadowlands -- Castle Nathria World First [Megathread]

[Xath]

Limit at 16% and went to sleep. Echo at 25% and will need to reclear. Maybe a close race today!

If they are at 25.9 they should kill it tonight really hoping they don't or we are not going to see endbosses streamed next tier. Limit needs to win or else they will likely cut streams of endboss next tier and echo definitely will if they win.

[Sowyer]

Limit at 16% and went to sleep. Echo at 25% and will need to reclear. Maybe a close race today!

I'm rooting for Limit, however deep down I know Echo is a better guild, they are way more efficient, Mostly likely Echo will kill the boss today.

[Raelyn]

I'm not sure how I feel about Echo using the "21st man" approach to call out when things are happening, what CD's to use etc. Do Echo do that too? While I've no doubt it is 'legal' it seems a little cheaty as the guys in the fight don't have to think about looking at timers.

Having said that, from a viewing perspective, it is brilliant and I think they have one of the best streams to watch. BDGG too.

[SeIex]

I'm rooting for Limit, however deep down I know Echo is a better guild, they are way more efficient, Mostly likely Echo will kill the boss today.

Unfortunately I kinda have to agree. I feel like echo definitely has an edge in terms of performance this tier. I'm a little surprised at how much echo improved between nyalotha and now. After seeing how dominant limit were in nyalotha, I thought it would be very difficult for echo to keep up this tier but they've done that and more.

But the race isn't over just yet. Gonna hope that limit can somehow pull it out. The next few hours are gonna be a little stressful.

[HoopyFrood]

I'm not sure how I feel about Echo using the "21st man" approach to call out when things are happening, what CD's to use etc. Do Echo do that too? While I've no doubt it is 'legal' it seems a little cheaty as the guys in the fight don't have to think about looking at timers.

Having said that, from a viewing perspective, it is brilliant and I think they have one of the best streams to watch. BDGG too.

I think it's a pretty legit method because all the info the RL needs is forced into another raid member's screen whether they like it or not. The RL also has (I think) no control over the raid member's screen.

Now if the RL somehow could have his own independent screen with full control I think that's a little sketch.

[MrPaladinGuy]

they are way more efficient

Then why aren't they winning, lmao.

[Zoldor]

Depending on how long it takes Echo to get rolling this looks like Limit might wake up to it dead. Echo has about 10 less pulls on Sire before a reclear. Going to be interesting.

[facefist]

No they won't. It just means more salty EU fans will make braindead takes about how the "advantage" matters while anybody capable of even the smallest amount of critical thinking will accept what we've know the whole time: It doesn't fucking matter.

Everyone with a brain knows that it can matter, but so far it has not made a difference, and I doubt it will make a difference this time. ~8h is so small window that it is very unlikely two top guilds will clear the raid in that time window.

But calling a headstart "advantage" tells enough of your ability to think critically. I mean I'm US myself but the advantage from getting a more gear earlier for the end boss is super obvious, but the advantage is not simply 8 hours because US shows strategia, comps and gets blocked by bugs or overtuned bosses which don't get nerfed immediately.

EU likes to pretend that the advantage is something super huge (even though it has never made a difference), while US likes to pretend that there is no advantage at all (because it has never made a difference so far).. And both are wrong because they are biased.

But I agree with you that this is useless to discuss atm. The headstart has not mattered so far and it's useless to bring it up on every race untill it actually matters.

[Mendzia]

Does anybody likes how last boss is on Mythic?
Cool idea with new 4-Horseman but overall it is kinda shittty honestly.
Ability pollution is getting worse and worse.
Another disappointing end of raid tier imho... but still much better than dogshit N'Zoth encounter.

[Relapses]

Everyone with a brain knows that it can matter, but so far it has not made a difference, and I doubt it will make a difference this time. ~8h is so small window that it is very unlikely two top guilds will clear the raid in that time window.

But calling a headstart "advantage" tells enough of your ability to think critically. I mean I'm US myself but the advantage from getting a more gear earlier for the end boss is super obvious, but the advantage is not simply 8 hours because US shows strategia, comps and gets blocked by bugs or overtuned bosses which don't get nerfed immediately.

EU likes to pretend that the advantage is something super huge (even though it has never made a difference), while US likes to pretend that there is no advantage at all (because it has never made a difference so far).. And both are wrong because they are biased.

But I agree with you that this is useless to discuss atm. The headstart has not mattered so far and it's useless to bring it up on every race untill it actually matters.

"Advantage," "headstart," whatever the fuck you want to call it. It's a frustrating topic to discuss because people from both regions will make endless excuses to absolve their professed heroes and disparage the opponents. And for what it's worth, "useless to discuss," to me is the same thing as "doesn't matter." It's rote pedantic argument that will never have a resolution which actually fixes the problem.

[Farora]

Does anybody likes how last boss is on Mythic?
Cool idea with new 4-Horseman but overall it is kinda shittty honestly.
Ability pollution is getting worse and worse.
Another disappointing end of raid tier imho... but still much better than dogshit N'Zoth encounter.

It doesnt look very epic at least.

[Xath]

Does anybody likes how last boss is on Mythic?
Cool idea with new 4-Horseman but overall it is kinda shittty honestly.
Ability pollution is getting worse and worse.
Another disappointing end of raid tier imho... but still much better than dogshit N'Zoth encounter.

Seems very hectic but yeah Jaina is the last end boss I considered well made this is no Jaina.

[Sneek]

I just noticed Echo killed almost all bosses with less pulls than Limit, sometimes with 50+ attempts LESS than Limit.

Hats off to the better guild, go get that WF.

[Einsz]

I'm rooting for Limit, however deep down I know Echo is a better guild, they are way more efficient, Mostly likely Echo will kill the boss today.

Way more efficient? You mean they didn't lose 7h to maintenances and didn't lose 12h+ to bugged/overtuned bosses which also gave them 1 full day extra on Sire progress? Not sure if troll or...

Edit: forgot to mention EU starts with full info on 6 bosses

[Thestrawman]

I just noticed Echo killed almost all bosses with less pulls than Limit, sometimes with 50+ attempts LESS than Limit.

Hats off to the better guild, go get that WF.

How about if we discount all the pulls where the bosses were broken? Where are we then?

[Dancaris]

So salty us-fans here, wow.
More info for bosses that was tested in PTR? Why?
More time to bugged bosses? But you have your +1day of raiding before EU even unlocks, and still killing that bugged bosses, so its not that hard, yes?
And that because Echo want that 0 delay for EU, to wipe on bugs and overtune, clearly. Can you understand, if start of raid comes at one time, there will be fair compete of guilds, and same bugs will affect both EU and US?

[Baneto]

Go Limit! You've got this.

[gobarj]

Limit at 16% and went to sleep. Echo at 25% and will need to reclear. Maybe a close race today!

How do you know Echo is at 25%?

I also saw a hotfix about Dusk Elegy. I wonder if Echo were skipping Cabalists in their strategy as the hotfix did not apply to Limit (it makes raid take less healing per Cabalist alive after 40%). If so, then Blizzard effectively revealed their strat or us.

[DeiVias]

How do you know Echo is at 25%?

https://raider.io/castle-nathria/global-coverage

They are now at a best of 25.9% BEFORE their reset and re-clear, meaning they will get a huge bump from the new week's gear and another run through Nathria! They had 83 pulls on the Sire as well, so it's going to get really heated today, as we're expecting them to stream everything!

I'm not sure how I feel about Echo using the "21st man" approach to call out when things are happening, what CD's to use etc. Do Echo do that too? While I've no doubt it is 'legal' it seems a little cheaty as the guys in the fight don't have to think about looking at timers.

Having said that, from a viewing perspective, it is brilliant and I think they have one of the best streams to watch. BDGG too.

Echo, Limit and i think Pieces are all using a 21st raider.

Limit started the trend and considering how successful it's been it's not going anywhere.

[Xath]

So salty us-fans here, wow.
More info for bosses that was tested in PTR? Why?
More time to bugged bosses? But you have your +1day of raiding before EU even unlocks, and still killing that bugged bosses, so its not that hard, yes?
And that because Echo want that 0 delay for EU, to wipe on bugs and overtune, clearly. Can you understand, if start of raid comes at one time, there will be fair compete of guilds, and same bugs will affect both EU and US?

Kind of hard to kill bosses when they are bugged to the point they literally despawn lols. Also everyone wants a global release except blizzard but the "advantage" is in no way worth a day especially when streaming.