If they made a new class in the future, what would it be?

[draugril]

What about Wardens? Spellbreakers? Shadow Hunters? Let's get some move glaive-users...

[Teriz]

calm down chris chan

Considering that you're the one who has resorted to name-calling, again, you should take your own advice.

you asked for examples and they were provided
you went into one of the examples then write of the rest which is what you keep doing and makes the entire tinker discussion a giant circle jerk

I asked for examples that match the abilities I posted. You posted a bunch of unrelated items that a player couldn't use for any real purpose. Again, that's the point; The profession and available classes do not provide the necessary abilities for a player to emulate the Tinker hero from WC3. Since the Tinker hero is lore, we have a large technological theme in WoW, and we have multiple races who could benefit from a class with that theme in the game, that's a hole in the class lineup that should be filled.

you also cant say you welcome criticism of the tinker class because at least 40 pages of this thread can be filled with your responses of "your class cant do this but my class can and you cant criticize me because WC3"

There's a vast difference between pointing out that the player can be a Dark Ranger akin to Nathanos Blightcaller, versus saying that you can be a Tinker if you max out Engineering. The excuse against being a Dark Ranger like Nathanos amounts to a cosmetic issue (which honestly isn't even true because Void Elves can look undead). The issue with telling someone to max out engineering is that maxing out engineering doesn't provide you with the tools to accomplish a class role. You can be a Void Elf MM Hunter and transmog some shadowy looking gear, and for all intents and purposes you are a Dark Ranger. You can DPS in raids, dungeons, and complete quests with your arrows and your shadow abilities provided by your racials (if you wish to take it that far). You can even learn how to tame undead creatures and add a little necromancy to your gameplay.

Compared to someone maxing out engineering and not being able to accomplish anything close to that. Why? Because a profession in now way supplants a class.

So yeah, it isn't the same situation. Not even close.

- - - Updated - - -

What about Wardens? Spellbreakers? Shadow Hunters? Let's get some move glaive-users...

Wardens= Rogues
Spellbreakers= Warriors
Shadow Hunters= Shaman

[draugril]

Wardens= Rogues
Spellbreakers= Warriors
Shadow Hunters= Shaman

Only in part.

We have no Avatars of Vengeance to play with, and the aesthetics and fantasy a mismatched.
We have nothing from Spellbreakers represented with Warriors.
And where is my Big Bad Voodoo, Serpent Ward and ranged glaives?

There's room there for expansion, whether it be more specializations or more classes. Demon Hunter is already precedent for taking iconic "loaner" abilities back to more fully flesh out a new class.

[Ielenia]

You may view it as unnecessary or a waste, but if Blizzard views it as a major part of the Tinker identity (and by all accounts they do because they keep making Tinkers with claw packs), they will include it, like they did for other expansion classes.

This is false.

We don't have a single "claw pack" anywhere in WoW. Not even the most intelligent "tinkers" in WoW have been shown to have one. Mekkatorque has never been seen with one. Blackfuse has never been seen with one. Gazlowe has never been seen with one.

There is not a single gnome or goblin with a claw pack, in Warcraft.

[Baconeggcheese]

Wardens= Rogues
Spellbreakers= Warriors
Shadow Hunters= Shaman

I think we're at a point where we have such saturation that we can do that for pretty much any new addition. The classes we have are already stepping all over each others toes, yet alone adding another.

I imagine for blizzard at this point its just a matter of where it makes sense in the story (like how monks came with pandaria and DH's with legion) and if its worthwhile to add to a workload that they're already struggling to manage.

For instance I can't imagine a better opportunity to add tinkers to the game than BFA with the mechagnomes and all that. If there was ever going to be a time that was it.

[LordVargK]

The Forgotten: they add it, it's good for one expansion, then it's an untuned afterthought for three after.

That's called "a monk".

[bloodkin]

This is false.

We don't have a single "claw pack" anywhere in WoW. Not even the most intelligent "tinkers" in WoW have been shown to have one. Mekkatorque has never been seen with one. Blackfuse has never been seen with one. Gazlowe has never been seen with one.

There is not a single gnome or goblin with a claw pack, in Warcraft.

Shhhhh don't burst his fragile bubble, seems to be the only thing he has.

[Teriz]

This is false.

We don't have a single "claw pack" anywhere in WoW. Not even the most intelligent "tinkers" in WoW have been shown to have one. Mekkatorque has never been seen with one. Blackfuse has never been seen with one. Gazlowe has never been seen with one.

There is not a single gnome or goblin with a claw pack, in Warcraft.

There also wasn’t a single Pandaren Brewmaster in WoW until MoP. There wasn’t a single DK with the DKs abilities from WC3 until WotLK. The DH class version of metamorphosis was absent from WoW until Legion.

In short, Blizzard tends to keep certain class concepts out of WoW until they introduce the class into the game. Claw Pack is probably one of those concepts.

- - - Updated - - -

I think we're at a point where we have such saturation that we can do that for pretty much any new addition. The classes we have are already stepping all over each others toes, yet alone adding another.

Not the Tinker.

I imagine for blizzard at this point its just a matter of where it makes sense in the story (like how monks came with pandaria and DH's with legion) and if its worthwhile to add to a workload that they're already struggling to manage.

For instance I can't imagine a better opportunity to add tinkers to the game than BFA with the mechagnomes and all that. If there was ever going to be a time that was it.

Undermine would be a better opportunity, since it’s supposedly a continent, and it’s mentioned multiple times in lore.

[Traveler Voltin]

What about Wardens? Spellbreakers? Shadow Hunters? Let's get some move glaive-users...

Shadow hunter skills went to shaman.
Warden skills went to rogue and mage

Spellbreaker is blood elf only.

[Teriz]

Only in part.

We have no Avatars of Vengeance to play with, and the aesthetics and fantasy a mismatched.

That can easily go to the Rogue or Priest class. Aesthetics can be dealt with via transmog and future armor sets.

We have nothing from Spellbreakers represented with Warriors.

Spell Reflect. Mages have Spell Steal. I could see Mages at some point gaining Control Magic.

And where is my Big Bad Voodoo, Serpent Ward and ranged glaives?

Big Bad Voodoo can easily go to Shaman. Serpent Ward was represented by Searing Totem (there was a glyph to turn Searing totem into Serpent Ward in MoP/WoD, it's now a toy). Hunters had Glaive toss (and they should get it back), and Demon Hunters have Throw Glaive.

There's room there for expansion, whether it be more specializations or more classes. Demon Hunter is already precedent for taking iconic "loaner" abilities back to more fully flesh out a new class.

I think at best you're just looking at a few abilities being added to existing classes over time.

[deplorable]

artificer - sits in-between a warlock and a mage

i'd have liked to have said engineer (like from the ancient warhammer mmo) or witchhunter ... but i can't see blizzard copying those. yet.

[Triceron]

You may view it as unnecessary or a waste, but if Blizzard views it as a major part of the Tinker identity (and by all accounts they do because they keep making Tinkers with claw packs), they will include it, like they did for other expansion classes.

So far, it seems to be the concluding reason you've brought up against having Lightforged or Dark Iron Tinkers. If this is the case, Blizzard wouldn't include them for the sake of excluding races.

The same if you were talking about glowing blue eyes and pale skin, or having martial arts animations. There's no reason they would make class-based customizations exclusive to any particular set of races. Even the Demon Hunter Horns and Tattooes can be applied to any race whenever Blizzard wishes to expand the list.

The most we're talking about is having unique transformation visuals for each race keeping a limit, and frankly the Lightforged already have their own Mech in the game and the Dark Iron Mechs can easily be modelled around their Golem design which we're already very familiar with.

Probably because they have 5 minute cooldowns attached to them.

A spell effect is a spell effect, would a claw pack change this? Again, you haven't convinced me why it would be necessary to any new class. Tinker would still attack easily without one.

WC3 and WC3:R is though. WC3:R also used Gazlowe's clawback from HotS.

If you put it that way, then WC3:R and HotS inly shows Goblins using clawpacks, no other race.

It sounds more like Goblin exclusive back-piece if you ask me. It could be a Goblin Heritage Backpiece, when Blizzard ever chooses to extend the Backpiece customizations to races.

[Traveler Voltin]

artificer - sits in-between a warlock and a mage

i'd have liked to have said engineer (like from the ancient warhammer mmo) or witchhunter ... but i can't see blizzard copying those. yet.

does Warcraft even have artificers.

also technically

Artificer: a skilled craftsman or inventor.

D&D Artificer: Masters of invention, artificers use ingenuity and magic to unlock extraordinary capabilities in objects. They see magic as a complex system waiting to be decoded and then harnessed in their spells and inventions.

basically an artificer is part engineer and part enchanter.

[Triceron]

does Warcraft even have artificers.

also technically

Artificer: a skilled craftsman or inventor.

D&D Artificer: Masters of invention, artificers use ingenuity and magic to unlock extraordinary capabilities in objects. They see magic as a complex system waiting to be decoded and then harnessed in their spells and inventions.

basically an artificer is part engineer and part enchanter.

Artificers in WoW are names for Draenei engineers, and it's implied (not explicitly stated) that they could be considered Warrior-Engineers .

They are adept in Engineering and use and shape crystals as a part of their technology. Beyond technological inventions, they also create artifacts that can be used.

As far as the role goes, it just seems like an alternative type of Tech-user that uses more 'Magi-tech' themes than the traditional Steampunk of the Goblins and Gnomes.

[Diaphin]

Demon Hunters didn’t get released with TBC because (according to Blizzard) they weren’t prepared to release a new class. Considering that they had just released 9 classes with vanilla and restructuring the Shaman and Paladin classes, I’m inclined to believe that excuse.

The situation in Shadowlands is quite different. In the case of Shadowlands (according to Blizzard) no class fit the theme of a Dark Ranger defeating a Necromancer and opening up the realm of death.

I don't know. Shadowlands was actually quite filled with development on classes, the covenant system, legendaries and unpruning. I would say they did more development work on classes in the Shadowlands beta then they ever did in the entire runtime of BC. Not to forget that immediately after, they gave Metamorphosis to demonology warlocks and made it the core of their rotation. One could have argued that Demon Hunter was effectively out of the picture from Wrath onward, with Warlocks even getting a challenge mode set styled after Illidan and to continue the Black Temple storyline in the Green Fire Questchain. And then they still did it, fully changing the demonology tree to make it possible.

That hero would be Gazlowe, who quite a few Warcraft fans care for.

That is actually just in your head. In the real world, nobody but you and a fringe minority of nobodies give a fuck about Gazlowe or even know who that is. He is less relevant to the game than a Rambo parody. And by claiming that Gazlowe is a popular and well known warcraft hero, you start to sound like the people who sprew conspiracy theories about bill gates implanting us brainwashing chips through vaccines.

Well the point of that content was to unify Goblins and Mechagnomes being brought into the alliance. The overall purpose of that unification remains to be seen

It has none. It is so irrelevant that they put major Goblin and Gnome Lore behind inconsequential optional quest chains which only a fringe minority of the playerbase has and ever will be play. Look at the number of goblin characters. Then subtract all those who don't give a fuck about the transmog. And then those who don't give a fuck about the story and fully skipped it because they just wanted the transmog. The result is, that effectively the only people who know that Gazlowe is the leader of the Goblins now, are those who clicked the article in WoWhead back during the day.

Gazlowe is currently a faction leader and in the Horde council. He was also promoted to a trade prince, so again we don’t know the full implications of these changes.

As for Sylvanas, there’s a good chance that this will be her final expansion.[/quote]

You know that hammering home on your believe that it is more likely that Gazlowe will be in any shape or form will relevant than sylvanas sticking around makes you look delusional and unwell?

My arguments shouldn’t make anyone angry, they’re simply the facts.

Where? So far I just saw so spewed feelings. And seriously, if you don't even see that you are just baiting arguments by acting like an entitled "ethics in video games journalism"-"activist", you are even worse than the Quartering. I mean, he at least is well aware that he is trying to bait shit.

Just FYI, we tend to not see key aspects of future classes until the actual class is released. For example, despite all the wide variety of Monks in the game prior to Mists of Pandaria, none were Pandaren, none were breathing fire on opponents, andv we didn’t see any Monks smashing Kegs on people’s heads until we got to MOP.

What has this to do with the fact that outside of Gazlowe, not a single Gnome nor Goblin Tinker in the actual game is actually using a clawpack? And that I'm still pretty sure that even Gazlowes claw pack is purely cosmetic and not involved in his spell animations? And funny when you are talking about smashing kegs, where those this keg I use on my tank come from?

On a Pale Horse is better than that CD, just sayin....

Oh my god. You a World Quest Hero, are you? Fucking lol. I just say, fucking loool.

WC3 Monk hero;

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Chen_Stormstout

He’s also on the cover of the MoP.

His name is Po, you know. But seriously...Chen still wasn't a monk in WC3? He was a brewmaster. And he utilized a keg and a staff as his weapons.

Like I said, the claw pack is a portable arsenal of weapons and gadgets. In addition, it transforms into a mech.

More importantly, the claw pack has appeared in every iteration of the Tinker, including the tabletop RPGs.

Gnome Tinkers still aren't wearing those. And I don't see Blizzard just including a permanent backslot which intervenes with the character and their transmogs. Especially since they seem to have fun playing around with the backslots. And I don't see the benefits of listening to a a world quest hero when it comes to class design, considering that everything you need to play a tinker is already available on your rp server and your imagination. Making the claw pack a back slot item gives Blizz the opportunity to creat all kinds of different cosmetic gadgets fitting for various differently themed class sets.

[Teriz]

So far, it seems to be the concluding reason you've brought up against having Lightforged or Dark Iron Tinkers. If this is the case, Blizzard wouldn't include them for the sake of excluding races.

The same if you were talking about glowing blue eyes and pale skin, or having martial arts animations. There's no reason they would make class-based customizations exclusive to any particular set of races. Even the Demon Hunter Horns and Tattooes can be applied to any race whenever Blizzard wishes to expand the list.

The claw pack does work against having Draenei Tinkers simply due to size. However that’s an issue with mechs as well.

The most we're talking about is having unique transformation visuals for each race keeping a limit, and frankly the Lightforged already have their own Mech in the game and the Dark Iron Mechs can easily be modelled around their Golem design which we're already very familiar with.

Which is fine, but neither of those examples match the Goblin/Gnome technological basis of the Tinker. That’s the main issue holding those races back from being Tinkers.

A spell effect is a spell effect, would a claw pack change this? Again, you haven't convinced me why it would be necessary to any new class. Tinker would still attack easily without one.

That’s fine. My goal in pointing out the purpose of the claw pack was never to convince anyone, merely to point out the facts surrounding the situation. People are free to make up their own minds.

If you put it that way, then WC3:R and HotS inly shows Goblins using clawpacks, no other race.

That would be because Gnomes were absent in WC3 due to the fall of Gnomeregan.

It sounds more like Goblin exclusive back-piece if you ask me. It could be a Goblin Heritage Backpiece, when Blizzard ever chooses to extend the Backpiece customizations to races.

As I’ve stated before, that’s unlikely due to abilities like Robo-Goblin being tied to it.

[Diaphin]

That’s fine. My goal in pointing out the purpose of the claw pack was never to convince anyone, merely to point out my feelings surrounding the situation. People are free to make up their own minds.

Edited for you my friend.

[Triceron]

The claw pack does work against having Draenei Tinkers simply due to size. However that’s an issue with mechs as well.

Never been an issue with Lightforged Warframes, I don't see how you are seeing any issue whatsoever when Legion already showed us any race can pilot a mech.

Which is fine, but neither of those examples match the Goblin/Gnome technological basis of the Tinker. That’s the main issue holding those races back from being Tinkers.

Why would technology need to be exclusive? Are Gnomes and Goblins the only one teaching people to be Tinkers, and the Dark Iron and Draenei Mech suit makers are excluded because you say so?

I don't follow why you are adhering to Goblin and Gnome tech. If you simply wanted that, then we have that with Engineering Profession. I thought the whole point of a Tinker class was to use Technology in a class; and frankly Technology is not limited to any particular race. It's no different than saying Druidism is Night Elf culture; it is but it's not exclusive to Night Elves. Technology is not exclusive to Goblins and Gnomes.

We can follow this straight from Druidism where every new race being added to the roster is explained as using their own brand of Druidism, whether it's tapping inito the Loa or derived from an ancestral use of Harvest Witch or Drust-based magic. At the end of the day it's gameplay mechanics are still rooted using the same moon, stars and transformation forms that Night Elves outlined from their culture (sans Zandalari). You'd think Worgen would get an actual Wolf form after all these years.

That would be because Gnomes were absent in WC3 due to the fall of Gnomeregan.

And they're in WoW now, and no Gnome in the game has ever been shown with a Claw Pack.

Mekkatorque in all his cinematics and concept art has never worn one. Frankly, neither has Gazlowe since he's been added to WoW. I see no reason to add something from another game if it's completely unnecessary. We still easily regard both these characters in WoW as potential Tinkers and they never needed a backpack to be identified as such.

As I’ve stated before, that’s unlikely due to abilities like Robo-Goblin being tied to it.

It's unlikely that Gnomes and other races would be using Robo-Goblin.

Draenei already have Lightforged Warframes, so no need for anything to be considered unlikely. It's already in the game and fully functional, simply not as a class mechanic.

[Teriz]

I don't know. Shadowlands was actually quite filled with development on classes, the covenant system, legendaries and unpruning. I would say they did more development work on classes in the Shadowlands beta then they ever did in the entire runtime of BC. Not to forget that immediately after, they gave Metamorphosis to demonology warlocks and made it the core of their rotation. One could have argued that Demon Hunter was effectively out of the picture from Wrath onward, with Warlocks even getting a challenge mode set styled after Illidan and to continue the Black Temple storyline in the Green Fire Questchain. And then they still did it, fully changing the demonology tree to make it possible.

That's a fine opinion to have, but we have Blizzard's statements on the matter, so that's that.

That is actually just in your head. In the real world, nobody but you and a fringe minority of nobodies give a fuck about Gazlowe or even know who that is. He is less relevant to the game than a Rambo parody. And by claiming that Gazlowe is a popular and well known warcraft hero, you start to sound like the people who sprew conspiracy theories about bill gates implanting us brainwashing chips through vaccines.

This is entirely your opinion.

Here's the opinion of the forum on the Tinker versus the more "popular" Necromancer concept;

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...r-for-the-game

It has none. It is so irrelevant that they put major Goblin and Gnome Lore behind inconsequential optional quest chains which only a fringe minority of the playerbase has and ever will be play. Look at the number of goblin characters. Then subtract all those who don't give a fuck about the transmog. And then those who don't give a fuck about the story and fully skipped it because they just wanted the transmog. The result is, that effectively the only people who know that Gazlowe is the leader of the Goblins now, are those who clicked the article in WoWhead back during the day.

Again, nothing more than your opinion. Thank you for sharing it.

You know that hammering home on your believe that it is more likely that Gazlowe will be in any shape or form will relevant than sylvanas sticking around makes you look delusional and unwell?

Well considering that there are story beats still left unresolved, the fact that Undermine was an important part in the development of vanilla WoW, and there's multiple looming threats that would require technological power, I think Gazlowe has a rather bright future in WoW.

Where? So far I just saw so spewed feelings. And seriously, if you don't even see that you are just baiting arguments by acting like an entitled "ethics in video games journalism"-"activist", you are even worse than the Quartering. I mean, he at least is well aware that he is trying to bait shit.

1. The last three expansion classes were from WC3.
2. Tinker has the exact same background as the previous expansion classes.
3. None of the Tinker's abilities exist in engineering or the existing classes.
4. The Tinker hero is based on Warcraft lore.

It would seem that those facts drive people a little crazy. I don't know why.

What has this to do with the fact that outside of Gazlowe, not a single Gnome nor Goblin Tinker in the actual game is actually using a clawpack? And that I'm still pretty sure that even Gazlowes claw pack is purely cosmetic and not involved in his spell animations? And funny when you are talking about smashing kegs, where those this keg I use on my tank come from?

Another fact lost of some people is that Blizzard has traditionally kept out certain aspects of upcoming classes until those classes appear in WoW. For example, despite the various Monks in Azeroth, there was no Pandaren-based Monk character in WoW until MoP. We did get a hint with the Pandaren Monk companion pet, but that's it. None of the Brewmaster's abilities were present in WoW. In the case of the Tinker, the abilities are present in WoW, but it would make sense that there is no claw pack.

Oh my god. You a World Quest Hero, are you? Fucking lol. I just say, fucking loool.

Uh what? The point is that a consistent 20% mount speed boost is infinitely more beneficial than a cooldown.

His name is Po, you know. But seriously...Chen still wasn't a monk in WC3? He was a brewmaster. And he utilized a keg and a staff as his weapons.

Which is the basis for the entire WoW Monk class.

Gnome Tinkers still aren't wearing those. And I don't see Blizzard just including a permanent backslot which intervenes with the character and their transmogs. Especially since they seem to have fun playing around with the backslots. And I don't see the benefits of listening to a a world quest hero when it comes to class design, considering that everything you need to play a tinker is already available on your rp server and your imagination. Making the claw pack a back slot item gives Blizz the opportunity to creat all kinds of different cosmetic gadgets fitting for various differently themed class sets.

It wouldn't take up a back slot, since it's an ability, not an item.

- - - Updated - - -

Never been an issue with Lightforged Warframes, I don't see how you are seeing any issue whatsoever when Legion already showed us any race can pilot a mech.

There's a difference between a quest vehicle and a class ability.

Why would technology need to be exclusive? Are Gnomes and Goblins the only one teaching people to be Tinkers, and the Dark Iron and Draenei Mech suit makers are excluded because you say so?

The Tinker is based around Gnome/Goblin tech (the hero is the Goblin Tinker), which means that its abilities would be Gnome/Goblin tech based. Just like the Pandaren Brewmaster was Pandaren based, thus when Blizzard created the Monk class based on that hero all of the abilities of that class were also Pandaren based. BTW, this is despite multiple versions of Monks from multiple races that were present in WoW before MoP.

I'm really surprised that people are having a tough time grasping this.

I don't follow why you are adhering to Goblin and Gnome tech. If you simply wanted that, then we have that with Engineering Profession. I thought the whole point of a Tinker class was to use Technology in a class; and frankly Technology is not limited to any particular race. It's no different than saying Druidism is Night Elf culture; it is but it's not exclusive to Night Elves. Technology is not exclusive to Goblins and Gnomes.

Again see above. The hero the class concept is based on is the Goblin Tinker. This was even extended into the tabletop RPGs, HotS, and WoW with the expedition teams.

And they're in WoW now, and no Gnome in the game has ever been shown with a Claw Pack.

Claw Packs haven't been shown in WoW period, which is in line with how Blizzard keeps certain aspects of future classes hidden until their implementation.

It's unlikely that Gnomes and other races would be using Robo-Goblin.

It would more than likely simply be changed to Robo-[insert race name].

Draenei already have Lightforged Warframes, so no need for anything to be considered unlikely. It's already in the game and fully functional, simply not as a class mechanic.

And a completely different technological type than what the class is conceptually based on.

[Triceron]

There's a difference between a quest vehicle and a class ability.

What does this difference have to do with your issues with "The claw pack does work against having Draenei Tinkers simply due to size. However that’s an issue with mechs as well."

The Tinker is based around Gnome/Goblin tech (the hero is the Goblin Tinker), which means that its abilities would be Gnome/Goblin tech based. Just like the Pandaren Brewmaster was Pandaren based, thus when Blizzard created the Monk class based on that hero all of the abilities of that class were also Pandaren based. BTW, this is despite multiple versions of Monks from multiple races that were present in WoW before MoP.

If Tinkers can be trained then there's no reason to exclude any race. We're just talking about multiple races all using Gnomish and Goblin technology.

Engineering does that already, which means the precedent for any race becoming a Tinker is here. Again, I don't see what your issue is, you're just talking about a different path from Lightforged using their own Warframes and using Gnomish adapted technology instead; either way it boils down to the same point that the Engineering Profession already shows anyone can learn and adapt Gnomish technology, and we have a precedent for Lightforged Draenei being able to master the use of Technology. We're just putting two and two together, same way any race (sans Worgen and Goblin for whatever reason now) can learn to master Pandaren-style Martial Arts to become Monks.

Claw Packs haven't been shown in WoW period, which is in line with how Blizzard keeps certain aspects of future classes hidden until their implementation.

What aspects of Death Knights and Demon Hunters weren't already known to us?

I wouldn't consider the Claw Pack a customization option, and if you're talking about it being functional in class mechanics then it definitely isn't just an aesthetic choice. You're talking about something tied to the class itself, and there's really nothing tying 'Tinkers' to the claw packs when Mekkatorque is already clearly shown without one, while still being able to use a Mech in battle.