Shadowlands -- Castle Nathria World First [Megathread]

[SeIex]

After watching a couple pulls from echo, I think if they lose here, their biggest mistake will be not utilizing more of their time yesterday to pull denathrius. I know he was essentially unkillable week 1 since the dps check is already so tight with week 2 gear but they could have gotten a lot more practice in. They look very unpracticed in their stage 2 strategy.

Early pulls on the boss though, maybe they just need to warm up and will show more consistency soon.

[Trabsder]

The way I see it, things end up unfair no matter how you slice it.

If Limit kills it and then Echo kills it less than 1 day later for sure it'll seem like Echo got robbed.

On the other hand, if Limit kills it first and everyone just decides that that doesn't count as real world first then that's also unfair.

So as things have always been, first is first. That's as fair as the community can make things without intervention from Blizzard. And if that means you lose because the other guys had a head start or you lost a lot of time on a bugged boss then that's just how it is.

Honestly if it concerns Echo that much they move to the US. I know it would be a logistical nightmare and a great disadvantage initially but that is their only option given Blizzard are, quite rightly, not going to budge on this.

[Smash Adams]

Is Method running splits still? Or was that a Mythic wipe?

[[Apok]]

The way I see it, things end up unfair no matter how you slice it.

If Limit kills it and then Echo kills it less than 1 day later for sure it'll seem like Echo got robbed.

On the other hand, if Limit kills it first and everyone just decides that that doesn't count as real world first then that's also unfair.

So as things have always been, first is first. That's as fair as the community can make things without intervention from Blizzard. And if that means you lose because the other guys had a head start or you lost a lot of time on a bugged boss then that's just how it is.

How do you have a meaningful competition when one side has a major time advantage on something that can boil down to time spent on xxx.

It's like having two hurdles racing with one starting a minute after the other and saying whoever wins is clearly the fastest runner

[Farora]

Honestly if it concerns Echo that much they move to the US. I know it would be a logistical nightmare and a great disadvantage initially but that is their only option given Blizzard are, quite rightly, not going to budge on this.

Even Classic had worldwide releases for raids.

[Trabsder]

After watching a couple pulls from echo, I think if they lose here, their biggest mistake will be not utilizing more of their time yesterday to pull denathrius. I know he was essentially unkillable week 1 since the dps check is already so tight with week 2 gear but they could have gotten a lot more practice in. They look very unpracticed in their stage 2 strategy.

Early pulls on the boss though, maybe they just need to warm up and will show more consistency soon.

They used up 12 hours on day 3 of the raid on slow badly organised Heroic splits that was a significant day in the race....... and in fairness Limit have been better

[Arbs]

The way I see it, things end up unfair no matter how you slice it.

If Limit kills it and then Echo kills it less than 1 day later for sure it'll seem like Echo got robbed.

On the other hand, if Limit kills it first and everyone just decides that that doesn't count as real world first then that's also unfair.

So as things have always been, first is first. That's as fair as the community can make things without intervention from Blizzard. And if that means you lose because the other guys had a head start or you lost a lot of time on a bugged boss then that's just how it is.

I remember talks years ago that if a EU guild clears the raid faster like than their World 1st over the actual first kill and I was like how is that even a thing. But some people really tried to push it was based on time and not actual clears.

[Bjay]

Is Method running splits still? Or was that a Mythic wipe?

They were on Denathrius hc for their first split but cancelled it since they're running out of time because of NA reset advantage.

[Trabsder]

Even Classic had worldwide releases for raids.

Blizzard have been pretty clear that they are not going to change their stance on raid release/resets to placate a small number of EU guilds involved in the WF race.

[OrcsRLame]

How do you have a meaningful competition when one side has a major time advantage on something that can boil down to time spent on xxx.

It's like having two hurdles racing with one starting a minute after the other and saying whoever wins is clearly the fastest runner

As I said, it's inherently not fair. Unfairness is baked into the cake.

Even if there were no region differences, what do you do when one server has stability issues and another doesn't? Or if 1 team gets griefed and gets their lockout stolen like in Nighthold?

I'm not saying that first is first is fair. Rather, I am saying that is the most fair we as the community can make the race with our extremely limited control of the situation.

And if you wanna say that the competition does not matter if it's not completely fair then you're free to do so. But you must also acknowledge that the race for world first is not, has never been and never will be fair. It's a fact of life we have no control over. It's like complaining about aging.

[Shurkien]

They started to stream Uldir WF race and Method followed day after

Except that Limit didnt stream uldir.

[zortport]

There still were good contenders, just not at the caliber of the EU-guilds.

Now that Limit has gotten better at the game, suddenly things matter?

Yes, of course it suddenly matters, that is exactly how it works, are you too dumb to not see that? When paragon was beating US guilds by weeks, of course no one cared about 16h headstart. Now there are 2 guilds in the world with extremely close skill, so little things matter more. Makes sense?

[Farora]

Blizzard have been pretty clear that they are not going to change their stance on raid release/resets to placate a small number of EU guilds involved in the WF race.

They also said Classic would never happen. Things change. And like I said before, it's not just those guilds anymore, its a huge event that gives a lot of PR for Wow thanks to streaming.

[OrcsRLame]

They also said Classic would never happen. Things change. And like I said before, it's not just those guilds anymore, its a huge event that gives a lot of PR for Wow thanks to streaming.

Agreed. As a fan I would very much like simultaneous worldwide release. Would make it more hype.

[[Apok]]

As I said, it's inherently not fair. Unfairness is baked into the cake.

Even if there were no region differences, what do you do when one server has stability issues and another doesn't? Or if 1 team gets griefed and gets their lockout stolen like in Nighthold?

I'm not saying that first is first is fair. Rather, I am saying that is the most fair we as the community can make the race with our extremely limited control of the situation.

And if you wanna say that the competition does not matter if it's not completely fair then you're free to do so. But you must also acknowledge that the race for world first is not, has never been and never will be fair. It's a fact of life we have no control over. It's like complaining about aging.

That only works if the community as a whole shares the same outlook which doesn't seem to be the case

[SeIex]

They used up 12 hours on day 3 of the raid on slow badly organised Heroic splits that was a significant day in the race....... and in fairness Limit have been better

Actually that doesn't sound that slow. Limit also used like 11 hours on wednesday on splits. It was after pulling sludgefist a few times and realizing he was bugged and they couldn't kill him without more gear.

[Thokri]

And how you would make worldwide release fair? Same whine would occur.

People seem to forget timezones.

"classic has one trololol" But no one cares about 16 year old content which is cleared in couple hours by people who wipe on LFR.

It is what it is. Sometimes US has advantage, sometimes it is not that due bug not getting fixed.
This time it helped due rest and attempts at first week.

[Farora]

And how you would make worldwide release fair? Same whine would occur.

People seem to forget timezones.

"classic has one trololol" But no one cares about 16 year old content which is cleared in couple hours by people who wipe on LFR.

It is what it is. Sometimes US has advantage, sometimes it is not that due bug not getting fixed.
This time it helped due rest and attempts at first week.

No one can change that the planet is round, Blizzard can change their CHOICE to release mythic on different days. What's the problem really, I can't see a reason why anyone would be against it.

[Trabsder]

Actually that doesn't sound that slow. Limit also used like 11 hours on wednesday on splits. It was after pulling sludgefist a few times and realizing he was bugged and they couldn't kill him without more gear.

I watched Echo the whole day and it was slow and pretty badly organised. My general felling having watched both guilds in this race is that Limit have just been better organised more efficient and effective in the areas that matter.

[Smash Adams]

No one can change that the planet is round, Blizzard can change their CHOICE to release mythic on different days. What's the problem really, I can't see a reason why anyone would be against it.

All that does is immediately give someone a fresh excuse. “Wah wah EU/US had to start in the middle of the night.” Short of putting everyone in one timezone, it’s never going to solve anything.