[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Huehuecoyotl]

If Bj can secure a deal with the EU, that is one hell of a coup on his behalf, i get that you guys want the UK to suffer, some of the posts in this thread have been pretty disgusting the last couple of years with the constant barrage of hate on the UK etc, but one thing is for sure, if this goes ahead they have pulled an absolute blinder, no two ways about it.

Some of the goal post moving, and scrambling to push different narratives is astounding.


Sacrifices have been made on both sides. I get it is not the result you wanted with lets make little Britain suffer, cant believe some of the posters here are British, with them wanting the country to fail, disgusting.

The Brexiteers are the ones damaging this country, and have been from day one. Wanting to ensure that they understand the damage that they've caused is actually thinking of the long term good of this country. Because otherwise they are going to carry on demanding stupid damaging things, and they'll make things even worse.

And it's not going to be a coup by BJ. It will involve him backing down on pretty much every important thing up for discussion, because that's the hand that the Brexiteers demanded he play. We never had the leverage in this negotiation, and the end result is going to reflect that. Expect a few token points that the EU have conceded some ground on to give BJ a chance to claim victory. But they won't be anything important.

So you can stuff your fake patriotism. The people wanting this country to fail are the ones that voted to leave in 2016. You want to complain at anyone, do it to them.

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What's delicious is the crowing here of remainers about the morsel the UK has given the EU and celebrating it as a win for the EU. Rather like someone throwing a starving dog a bone. But the UK caved? LOL The EU wanted ECJ oversight of UK laws, they didn't get it. The EU used to get £350 million a week, the UK conceded £50 million of fish a year for a few more years.

Of course things could have been better for pure brexiteers like me with a no deal, but the EU doing a deal with known perfidious ones will be much more fun as the UK daily pushes the boundaries to the very limits of that agreement. We will continue to run rings around the EU.

I suppose when you start out with the extreme position of remaining in the EU, the smallest crumb found in favour of the EU under the microscope is taken as a win. Happy Brexmas remainers, enjoy your Turkey, not like we are rejoining though is it?

8 sleeps.

And here comes dribbles, being psychic. Talk me through how you know how good this deal is, WHEN IT HASN'T EVEN BEEN PUBLISHED YET. Apparently 2000 pages of text, and dribbles knows it's great news for the UK somehow.

It's almost as if your talking point of "it's great for us, terrible for the EU" is going to be made regardless of reality, isn't it?

You've never been more transparent about the fact-free basis of your opinions. Typical Brexiteer, sadly.

[dribbles]

And here comes dribbles, being psychic. Talk me through how you know how good this deal is, WHEN IT HASN'T EVEN BEEN PUBLISHED YET. Apparently 2000 pages of text, and dribbles knows it's great news for the UK somehow.

It's almost as if your talking point of "it's great for us, terrible for the EU" is going to be made regardless of reality, isn't it?

You've never been more transparent about the fact-free basis of your opinions. Typical Brexiteer, sadly.

Still not remaining or rejoining though are we, sell that as a win for you if you can. Talking of wins vs losses...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-agree-EU.html

[Forogil]

Still not remaining or rejoining though are we, sell that as a win for you if you can. Talking of wins vs losses...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-agree-EU.html

One side (the uk government) claims that they won on more "key" issues than the other side.
That's about as shocking revelation as them saying that water is wet, or that the daily fail blindly reporting it.

[dribbles]

One side (the uk government) claims that they won on more "key" issues than the other side.
That's about as shocking revelation as them saying that water is wet, or that the daily fail blindly reporting it.

The only difference remainers here will see is that it won't be as easy for them to spend the summer season serving "sex on the beach" cocktails in a Benidorm bar as they usually do without a bit more faff.

Aside from that the UK still has all the benefits of EU membership, with none of the costs or responsibilities.

In a few days time we will shine like a UK lighthouse beacon of freedom to the many eurochums who remain against their will inside the EU showing exactly what is possible if you leave.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Aside from that the UK still has all the benefits of EU membership, with none of the costs or responsibilities.

It does not, you are misinformed.

[Huehuecoyotl]

The only difference remainers here will see is that it won't be as easy for them to spend the summer season serving "sex on the beach" cocktails in a Benidorm bar as they usually do without a bit more faff.

Aside from that the UK still has all the benefits of EU membership, with none of the costs or responsibilities.

In a few days time we will shine like a UK lighthouse beacon of freedom to the many eurochums who remain against their will inside the EU showing exactly what is possible if you leave.

So Boris's government (with a solid track record of incompetence and lies) tell us that they "won" most of the victories in the negotiations. And you blindly believe them.

How good this deal actually is will come out over the days and weeks ahead. I expect a lot of areas of Business to find issues once they start to dig into the details. I'll wait for the independent assessments, thank you very much.

No surprise that you are prepared to take the word of Boris on faith. That's what happens when you join a cult like Brexit.

[Demolitia]

The only difference remainers here will see is that it won't be as easy for them to spend the summer season serving "sex on the beach" cocktails in a Benidorm bar as they usually do without a bit more faff.

Aside from that the UK still has all the benefits of EU membership, with none of the costs or responsibilities.

In a few days time we will shine like a UK lighthouse beacon of freedom to the many eurochums who remain against their will inside the EU showing exactly what is possible if you leave.

Apart from fish, level playing field, state aides and services. It also remains to be seen what's actually in the draft on cooperation in other fields.
But if your cute little table "showing" a 43% win is all it takes to convince the ERG it's a good deal, I guess we can live with it.

[Forogil]

The only difference remainers here will see is that it won't be as easy for them to spend the summer season serving "sex on the beach" cocktails in a Benidorm bar as they usually do without a bit more faff.

Hopefully that also means less places at the med serving british food which will be a major benefit.

However, regarding brexit the fact remain that brexiters and the daily fail still haven't grasped even the fundamentals of trade. Trade is mutually beneficial - not a zero-sum game where the loss of one is the gain of the other. So the very fact that they count wins and losses show that they are still sitting with all the cards in the game of Uno.

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Apart from fish, level playing field, state aides and services. It also remains to be seen what's actually in the draft on cooperation in other fields.
But if your cute little table "showing" a 43% win is all it takes to convince the ERG it's a good deal, I guess we can live with it.

Actually that leads me to an interesting possibility of how bojo might possibly cunningly (or inadvertently) made the deal possible:

Less than a week ago bojo announced that the uk had a worse strain of covid; with statements that seem overblown (claims of up to 70% more infectious when it at most increases R by 40%; and even that isn't fully clear).
Predictably that caused France and other countries to close the border.
That gave the uk an early taste of the chaos that will happen after brexit - especially a no-deal one.
In turn that made the tories more likely to vote in favor of any deal - as they had actually seen what chaos would unfold if they didn't.

[Pann]

A summary of the deal is available here - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xD3...fhY2KRpvf/view

I'm not a fan of classing each area as a win for either side but, if accurate, it looks better than I expected.

Hopefully people can move on now and we can forge a new relationship with the EU and begin to heal the divisions, both, at home and that have opened between us and the EU over the last few years.

[Huehuecoyotl]

A summary of the deal is available here - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xD3...fhY2KRpvf/view

I'm not a fan of classing each area as a win for either side but, if accurate, it looks better than I expected.

Hopefully people can move on now and we can forge a new relationship with the EU and begin to heal the divisions, both, at home and that have opened between us and the EU over the last few years.

This is the UK governments own view of the "wins/losses" that dribbles also posted. Utterly pointless referring to that, because it's partly to trumpet how bigly we've won, and partly as a mechanism to sell the deal to the ERG.

I'm waiting for independent analysis of what the deal looks like before deciding how good it is. Especially once the experts in the impacted areas get a chance for a proper look.

But I'd certainly expect the reality to differ from that by a significant degree. I'd almost expect it to be as strongly weighted the other way. We went into this negotiation with no leverage, there would be no reason for the EU to back down to such a degree.

[Forogil]

This is the UK governments own view of the "wins/losses" that dribbles also posted. Utterly pointless referring to that, because it's partly to trumpet how bigly we've won, and partly as a mechanism to sell the deal to the ERG.

I'm waiting for independent analysis of what the deal looks like before deciding how good it is. Especially once the experts in the impacted areas get a chance for a proper look.

I'm also a bit unsure what the line drawn across the tax-win for the uk means. Did that part fall through?

And tellingly the fishing part is just brushed aside and ignored.

[Acidbaron]

This is the UK governments own view of the "wins/losses" that dribbles also posted. Utterly pointless referring to that, because it's partly to trumpet how bigly we've won, and partly as a mechanism to sell the deal to the ERG.

I'm waiting for independent analysis of what the deal looks like before deciding how good it is. Especially once the experts in the impacted areas get a chance for a proper look.

But I'd certainly expect the reality to differ from that by a significant degree. I'd almost expect it to be as strongly weighted the other way. We went into this negotiation with no leverage, there would be no reason for the EU to back down to such a degree.

How far does one have to be down the rabbit hole to try to paint complex matters off as simple victories or losses. All this does is merely reinforce this believe that some people have not moved beyond the second world war in their mind.

That list could be correct and if it is, it is going to be constructed so that it visually looks good for the UK, ignoring the actual value of each part. Because it is the UK that has constantly struggled to convince it's subjects that what they are doing is good for them, the EU does not have this image problem, they actually came out stronger out of all this. And politically i and many others are not unhappy to see the UK go and sit outside of the EU, the last 20 years if no longer their presence has not been beneficial and i believe the UK won't outlast the EU, the UK keeps shrinking and 100 years from now i believe it's going to be even smaller.

Very few experts are going to see this as positives for the UK in the long run, we can completely ignore their world image. As you simply have to be aware of how global industries have become and how smaller you are the less influence, sovereignty and power you actually have on that front. That being said i would say that's the least of the UK concerns right now, the division on national politics and in the minds of the people are going to be hard for some to come to terms with extremes have been empowered and they aren't going to simply go away. It wouldn't surprise me if a poll were to be held about how represented a UK citizen felt or how much trust they have in their political leadership and if that were to be below 20%.

[Dhrizzle]

What's delicious is the crowing here of remainers about the morsel the UK has given the EU and celebrating it as a win for the EU. Rather like someone throwing a starving dog a bone. But the UK caved? LOL The EU wanted ECJ oversight of UK laws, they didn't get it. The EU used to get £350 million a week, the UK conceded £50 million of fish a year for a few more years.

Of course things could have been better for pure brexiteers like me with a no deal, but the EU doing a deal with known perfidious ones will be much more fun as the UK daily pushes the boundaries to the very limits of that agreement. We will continue to run rings around the EU.

I suppose when you start out with the extreme position of remaining in the EU, the smallest crumb found in favour of the EU under the microscope is taken as a win. Happy Brexmas remainers, enjoy your Turkey, not like we are rejoining though is it?

8 sleeps.

The EU never got £350m a week from the UK. The fact you still believe that obvious and thoroughly debunked lie shows exactly how uninformed you are about what Brexit actually means.

[dribbles]

It does not, you are misinformed.

Inform me then, go on...

What could I not do easily in the next year that I can do today that is worth the UK paying hundreds of millions a week for, apart from wait tables in Stavros's Greek Taverna all next summer?

[Mayhem]

A summary of the deal is available here - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xD3...fhY2KRpvf/view

I'm not a fan of classing each area as a win for either side but, if accurate, it looks better than I expected.

Hopefully people can move on now and we can forge a new relationship with the EU and begin to heal the divisions, both, at home and that have opened between us and the EU over the last few years.

What division on the EU side?

Though, I do like the irony in your post.

[sircaw]

[QUOTE=Huehuecoyotl;52899220]The Brexiteers are the ones damaging this country, and have been from day one. Wanting to ensure that they understand the damage that they've caused is actually thinking of the long term good of this country. Because otherwise they are going to carry on demanding stupid damaging things, and they'll make things even worse.

And it's not going to be a coup by BJ. It will involve him backing down on pretty much every important thing up for discussion because that's the hand that the Brexiteers demanded he play. We never had the leverage in this negotiation, and the end result is going to reflect that. Expect a few token points that the EU have conceded some ground on to give BJ a chance to claim victory. But they won't be anything important.

So you can stuff your fake patriotism. The people wanting this country to fail are the ones that voted to leave in 2016. You want to complain at anyone, do it to them.

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Nothing fake about it, its people like you that have been poison to all of this process, again not getting your own way, disrespectful of the vote, and now at the time when a major deal has been finally announced you still can't accept it, you still trying to find a win button or make something out to be a negative. People like yourself are so disingenuous, you make out that people who voted to leave are the bad ones, while you scream from the roof tops hoping that everything fails so that certain people can be punished.

Concessions have been made on both side, this was not the one way traffic you had hoped for.

[Crispin]

If Bj can secure a deal with the EU, that is one hell of a coup on his behalf, i get that you guys want the UK to suffer, some of the posts in this thread have been pretty disgusting the last couple of years with the constant barrage of hate on the UK etc, but one thing is for sure, if this goes ahead they have pulled an absolute blinder, no two ways about it.

Some of the goal post moving, and scrambling to push different narratives is astounding.


Sacrifices have been made on both sides. I get it is not the result you wanted with lets make little Britain suffer, cant believe some of the posters here are British, with them wanting the country to fail, disgusting.

A deal with the EU is a coup? How so?

And I’ve always prefered a deal with the UK. The EU is very pragmatic, and man-handle everyone in trade deals. Somehow Dribbles think that they get EU benefits without the costs, which will never happen. You’d see everyone leaving the EU if that was the case.

The EU does not negotiate with feelings, as the UK does. Dribbles never managed to understand this, which is why he’s posting “lol we won!” Nonsense. Both sides can win, a relationship based on “lol u lost suckahs” is not a very good one.

I’m fine with a lack of economic loss for the EU, and could care less about who ‘won’ etc. I know the EU wont do trade deals that is a “loss”

No one wanted the UK to “feel some pain”, the hope was that ignorant brexiteers, would realise how retarded a hard brexit would be, and hopefully realise that a trade deal had to be struck. Heck there’s commentators who anticipated that the UK would rejoin the EU, after some time living under the consequences of a hard brexit.


In the end you’ll feel like the Norwegians do, you live under our rules, but arent at the table when the rules are reformed.

[Pann]

The deal is done! Press conference shortly.

[Acidbaron]

Here is a very simple reality: If the deal would be a win for the UK and a loss for the EU, almost none of the EU members would (or will as it still needs to be individually approved) approve the deal. It's as simple as that. Macron outright stated a few times that he'd only approve a deal if it were beneficial for the EU, as he was playing hard and the UK in the end seemingly conceded to his demands when I skimp over the summary.

Yes as they just explained, even using the fisheries as an example the EU now has to decide among them what the quotas are for each nation and each nation has to approve this.

But something like this has to make a chance otherwise it wouldn't even have been proposed, as per above not interested in the UK government press conference they haven't been a trust worthy source for anything the last two decades.

[sircaw]

The deal is done! Press conference shortly.




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