world first backpedaling

[Yarathir]

Nah mate, I'm already seeing people envisioning an alternate reality where Echo didn't wipe during their reclears so they definitely killed it first. Echo in their limitless (sic) humility simply allowed NA to win out of pity so they can make next tier's race even more intense. Or, at least, that's what the script says.

I think you're envisioning boogeymen at this point.

[Skandulous]

Make the raid open at 9am PST on a Sunday everywhere in the world and have at it. Problem solved.

What about resets and maintenance?

[Jazzhands]

Nah mate, I'm already seeing people envisioning an alternate reality where Echo didn't wipe during their reclears so they definitely killed it first. Echo in their limitless (sic) humility simply allowed NA to win out of pity so they can make next tier's race even more intense. Or, at least, that's what the script says.

Sounds about right, yeah. It's really funny how salty people get about losing to the US.

[Xath]

Gearing up takes no time? For WF? They are CONSTANTLY gearing since release for WF. Every day.

Also, no. I'm not old enough to feel unaccomodated cuz of one day. I didn't even say they'd need to not sleep for 24 hours. Just like, 5 hours earlier?
Everyone at their age should have no issue with this, it's not like they are doing construction work or anything.
I had my fair shares of overtime (especially in the movie business) and to me it seemed like people can easily accomodate if they are determined.

Gearing up for the next race will likely be done within a month there is no forging to worry about if Echo started characters now they could absolutely done long before the next race.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Well they got it - 22 mins after

It was a wrap before, it's more a wrap because of that, now the goal posts got to be moved to make it not a wrap to make people that are in it was a wrap denial already to still be able to in denial.

[youswas]

The best solution would be to start counting the time from the moment of the raid opening on the guild's realm. Then compare the times on that base only.
I know the usual answers, like "it doesn't really matter since Echo almost downed him too", "race gets close in the end anyway", "first is first", "you're just jealous that region X won this time". The Asian region has even more of a disadvantage.
Yeah, you can argue that it's not hugely relevant that EU is 24h behind when in the end they often won or get close to winning. But the thing is, why should we even argue or relativize?
A 100% fair way to measure this stuff is not at all complicated and so why don't we start doing it? Just because it was never done before? Is it a tradition thing, like "we always did it poorly so we continue to do it poorly because it's tradition"? Is it because WoW PvE raid e-sport isn't that "important" compared to other e-sports? I don't know. But I don't get why it should always continue like this, when a fair solution is so damn easy (counting differently). Nothing has to change except the evaluation. Simple solution to a simple problem.

Anyway, congrats to Limit.

It's just not that simple unfortunately. You would need a LOT of rules to make something like this work. What if one region has more maintenance than another? What happens when a boss is bugged and the leading guild can't actually progress during that time period? How do you factor in the time gained from being able to watch another guild's strategies for every early boss? You would need someone to specify and the guilds to agree on all these rules before starting and still there would be controversy.

It's just much simpler, and probably more fair to just say whoever gets it first, wins.

Echo killed the boss just over 16 hours after Limit. Combine this with the amount of time Limit lost due to maintenance and bugs and the advantage of EU being able to watch their strats for the first few bosses and you can absolutely make the argument that Limit won this race straight up.

[Eapoe]

What about resets and maintenance?

Doesn’t matter. All players get to play at the same time starting Sunday and deal with the same down time on maintenance.

[Chaelexi]

It's not a better solution.
It's the solution that the community (which mean WF raiders) can implement RIGHT NOW with the limited input they have.
The easier solution than begging endlessly.

The reason I proposed the EU, and this will shock you, is because the EU reset is the one LATER.
Just so you know, it's much easier to wait for NA than to time-travel for EU players.

To answer the deleted post also, it would actually work better if the EU reset was set to the current NA timer than the other way around.
But as I said above with that we currenlty have available the easiest solution is if NA players simply waited.

- - - Updated - - -



See above. Nobody cares, this is a world first race. Either your goal is fair competition or sleeping until 10 AM.

Obviously, the counter argument would be that the current setup is unfair to EU players, as by the time the servers reset NA is at 7/10 and you are literally lagging behind playing catch up.

So using your logic the race should start when China opens 2 days after EU opens because they are later. But using actual logic the server would open on NA time as Blizzard's devs are based out of California and opening of servers during times when all staff is available and normally working.

[Porimlys]

Why is this a better solution than Blizzard setting a global reset-day?

theres just so many logistical issues that come up with the idea of a global reset day: blizzard employees having to do maintenance at bizarre hours, the reset hour being at night time for EU, the fact that limit and echo are not the only guilds who raid and in fact everyonr else out numbers those two guilds by a lot so forcing everyone else to go by these weird hours just for 50-60 players isnt really a good move, the list goes on and on.

[Yarathir]

Best solution I can think of tbh is Blizzard just making the world first races an official competition and accommodating the teams that intend to compete and inviting them into a special studio of sorts to progress like two weeks ahead of the raid releasing for the rest of the world on custom realms.

[Tinary]

It's competition created by players as something to brag about not by blizzard, why are you forcing blizzard's hand to interfere while they are clearly not interested in it? It is not a real competition and thats why you and all your arguements fail.

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ne...hria-has-begun ??? Not interested?
It is indeed not a real competition cause its not fair. The whole point of my posts were that it needs to have rules and stuff implented so it would be a fair competition.
I thank you for doing nothing?

[Souflikar]

Throw out the time factor all together. The team that clears the raid with the least overall amount of wipes wins.

[Aureli]

So, you mean they didnt need to move cause the 12 hours the NA region got wasnt enough handicap for em and EU still could make it?

Also do you think that in a game where one region which speaks english and starts sooner than other regions in WF would, you know, hinder a bit which language is on top spots?
My argument is that having a whole guild on another region server with high latency/ping does affect your gameplay. The problem for me is not that one region starts first or one starts last. The problem is that its called "world first" yet most of the worlds starts later. Call it a NA first en? EU first etc. Imagine running a olympic 100m race and you have to start 10 seconds later than 3 guys from some random country and then they tell you that "omg, but you should move to that country then".

P.S before you come back at me that they indeed move the runners to same location. Yes, thats the whole point of this thread, to give em all a same starting point.

Nobody cares that much to move players to one spot. European guilds can always move to NA location, if they think its the issue. Still no guild doing that, cos there is not big difference to start your raids 10 hours ahead...

Especially when everything is streamed and your opponents are learning from watching your experience...

Echo killed Denathrius during the second day of second ID. Limit did on first day. So whats the point? Better guild won and starting the same time wouldnt change much... Maybe Echo being even more behind.

[Biomega]

So whats the point? Better guild won and starting the same time wouldnt change much... Maybe Echo being even more behind.

But that's the entire point - you can't really tell who's the "better guild" UNLESS they start at the same time, and the same conditions as much as possible. There's various factors at play other than starting time, like bugged bosses etc. It's easy to say the guild who killed it first, period, is the "best guild" - but that's like saying someone is the "fastest runner" because they crossed the finish line first, even though everyone started the race at a different starting point.

Just to be clear, though: nobody in their right mind is disputing the world first, least of all Echo themselves. You killed it first you killed it first. The end. What they are complaining about is that unless Blizzard changes over to a global release, we could well see the end of World First Racing because THERE IS NO RACE when it's decided from the start in favor of the people who get to start 1 day early. And that's precisely BECAUSE Limit is as good as they are, not in spite of it.

[crakerjack]

I think what would be easier than mucking with release times is to count the world first based on hours after they’re able to access the content. If you can’t access the content while others can, then your timer shouldn’t start.

[Flura]

It wasnt a real issue before, its an issue since EU is losing, damn crybabys.

LIMIT won get over it.
LIMIT was and is a joy to watch, EU ist just we have to win there is no fun if we dont win, we do everything to win even if we hate it, just typical europeans.

How hard is it to make an US account? Could have been made Years ago, Max said there were 3 People raiding from europe in their WF Race.

Oh my god, whatch the interview with max after the kill. Not thinkable in ECHO / EU as i said typical european especially german.

Not raccist or whatever, i know it, my location is no joke.

[Yarathir]

God damn, I've seen more sore winner syndrome than sore loser syndrome.

[Queen of Hamsters]

The world first kill is the one that counts.

OH, and Merry Christmas everyone!

[bloomy]

Why isn't world first counted by when the servers went live for each region, i.e. Time since raid released? So literally all regions can compete equally, given an honor system of not watching your competitors. Or as everyone has suggested a global release time?

That would be a very unfair race for Limit, Echo could watch their streams to get strats and figure out needed weakauras to save time. The even bigger problem is that Limit runs into many bugs and problems that essentially force them to wait around for a fix or try to kill it despite the bug.

The only way to make it fair is a global release and there is no good reason to not do it. All of the tryhard guilds outside of NA will start at weird times, but I can promise you they don't mind, and any normal guilds outside of NA aren't affected by the start time of the raid anyways.

[Arbs]

Even in Classic the last raid Naxx was released globally. So in the evening for EU. The no life guilds stayed up late and raced against the NA and CN guilds. Works perfectly fine and the 2000+ normal guilds that cleared it the coming days and weeks were fine with it obviously.

So next tier #globalrelease !

Like we know the solution and it can work, but the problem is EU (Mostly fans and not the actual raiders themselves) will just complain about the time they have to start at. Either we do normal reset time or Expansion launch time.

Also with Classic WoW raids being 16 years old and are downed in like a couple hours. There is no real excitement other that "Hey we cleared this 16 year old content".

Honestly if Blizzard ever decides to do Global Release they should just move EU reset to Tuesday and do global release like FFXIV does.

- - - Updated - - -

To be fair, that would hopefully be everyone with the same issues, then.

But you'd have several things to tackle. First, Blizzard would have to want to do that work and guilds would have to agree to raiding on an isolated server where they get to keep none of the "spoils" afterwards.

They would perhaps be willing to do so if this competition took place quite a bit ahead of official game wide release, but then that would also lock your average guild out of trying and make it some kinda opt-in thing.

Good idea, but the problem is than it isn't a community run event anymore and Blizzard could essentially make any rules changes they want.