Does the time difference matter?

[exochaft]

Surprised no one has even mentioned the disadvantages of having a head start.

For example, the first guild to a boss can sometimes waste hours (or even days) on a bugged boss or an overtuned boss. These tend to get fixed, and there is some benefit to getting some early practice, but there's also waste when it comes to time that could've been spent doing splits or maybe another boss, or even just the extra fatigue that gets exerted on pulls that may become pointless after a hotfix. Sometimes Blizz comes out with literally game/strat-changing fixes or adjustments to fights that almost completely negate any progression you've had up until that point. In these cases, the time zone differences and head starts gets mostly negated because everyone's attempting a new version of the boss at the same time, even if others got to the harder/bugged first.

If you're a guild lagging being the leaders, you may get the benefit of getting to a boss that has been nerfed or hotfixed, and your guild likely has been following the front-runner's progress and strats... and considering that live streaming prog has been pretty open the last couple raids, it's really not that hard to see what your competition is doing, especially if they're in the lead. This doesn't mean that people just copy-and-paste what the front-runner is doing (that's more of a meta-slave mentality, which is usually done by non-top tier guilds), but it can be very informative about certain aspects of a fight and information that you may need. Simply put, having information from the front-runners mean you can spend less time/effort on your own prog of certain encounters, which means you may end up having more time/energy to burn once you catch up to the front-runners.

All in all, it's not really a black-and-white situation when it comes to world first with these sorts of things. I've perused the suggestions, and most wouldn't be good overall for the game or would just cause huge headaches. World-wide reset would probably be the best one could hope for, but as others have stated there's still inequalities. The world first title isn't even technically an official thing, and with most unofficial competitions it comes down to the community and the participants themselves to set the rules and guidelines. Just check out speedrunning for non-WoW games, as even the rules and guidelines can vary by region, but are generally agreed upon by the participating community.

[kaminaris]

Surprised no one has even mentioned the disadvantages of having a head start.

Thats cool and shit, then subtract the amount of time wasted from bugged boss till its fixed - bam, you have a proper time.
And time that can be compared against each other not some random timestamp that doesn't mean jack shit.

You can't get super perfect time comparison but thats still a lot better comparison.

Lets say boss 6 is bugged
NA gets to in in 1 day and 6h, realizes its bugged, blizz fixes that in 4h, total time 1day 2h
Then EU gets to that boss while its already fixed 1day and 5h later = time is 1 day and 5h.

Again, not perfect, still better than comparing timestamps with headstart.

[MrLachyG]

The only better way is to open raid simultaneously. Currently US plays in the cheat mode. It did not matter for many years when US guilds did not participate in the race, but it does matter now.

Honestly if anyone is using cheat mode it’s EU. While the time difference does favour the US the EU guilds get the benefit of watching strategies used for early bosses which enable them to catch up faster

[BobaBrett]

I mean, we could move EU maintenance to Tuesday also... then there is only a 5 hour time difference (advantage EU)

[Baneto]

So I hear a lot saying the time difference between us and eu isn't fair.

That echo had 16 hours to down it.

I can understand that downs while only us has access can't be claimed as world first.

Its only logical that a boss that is downed while only us has access, cannot be claimed as world first.

Is there a better way to determine world first?

The better guild won, cry me a river build a bridge and get over it.

[gaymer77]

The only better way is to open raid simultaneously. Currently US plays in the cheat mode. It did not matter for many years when US guilds did not participate in the race, but it does matter now.

You do realize that even in vanilla there were US guilds that were pushing World First kills right? Death & Taxes was a US guild that has many world firsts. Ony & Molten Core were all World Firsts obtained by US guilds. Blackwing Lair were all US guilds that got world firsts. AQ40 were all US guilds that got world firsts with the exception of C'thun which Nihilum a EU guild got. Naxx was all US guilds on world firsts with the exception of Kel'thuzad which went again to Nihilum a EU guild. The BC raids were split heavily between US and EU guilds leaning more towards US guilds in the earlier part of the expansion and EU more towards the end with the exception of end bosses which went to Nilhilum a EU guild except Sunwell which went to SK Gaming a EU guild. WOTLK raids were pretty much the EU guild Ensidia in the beginnging with Ulduar being split between several guilds and a TW guild actually taking Yogg 0 keepers first. The rest of the expansion was heavily US guilds getting world firsts. Cataclysm was US dominated by Blood Legion but there were some KR and OC world first kills too. MOP was split between Blood Legion a US guild and Method a EU guild with Blood Legion getting more world firsts. WOD was where you saw more and more diversity amongst world firsts with plenty of OC world firsts. Legion was dominated by Method on last boss kills but the US guild Limit got most of the other world first kills.


But yeah the US didn't participate in the race for ever right?

[Otrew]

yes, but not in this tier. the bugs in generals were exhausting for limit and EU always kill the first "easy" bosses faste r because they arleady saw the fights- in the final day echo spending the double of time in reclearing or gettin scared and stopping their splits were a bigger issue. If echo think is unfair and with echo i mean scripe who seems be the only salty about it they should play in NA, the lag is not a issue. limit have 3 EU player and played one race from london.

Asking blizzard for a global realese only for a few guilds is nonsense.

[Very Tired]

Does the time gap even matter seeing as the mythic raid was released weeks ago?

[Kumorii]

Does the time gap even matter seeing as the mythic raid was released weeks ago?

Of course it does... A headstart is a headstart. Doesn't matter how long the race takes, the ones with a headstart will still have x amount of time more than others.

[woopytywoop]

Does the time gap even matter seeing as the mythic raid was released weeks ago?

Reset happens every week and hours after such a reset, the gear of the team of course is better.

And given that Limit won the race shortly after such reset, makes it a valid complaint.

Also Echo had to regain their focus and moral after losing. I think "BuT tHeY dIdN't KiLl It WiThIn 8h" is a moot point, since they know they've lost and prob would need a mental break at at that point to digest the loss.

Nevertheless, I still think Limit is the rightful winner.

[Ghadun]

World firsts will never be a proper competition until they bring in player templates so that all raiders and guilds have to use the same gear, stats, and raid composition. Also, every guild should be inside the same raid at the same time, and they must first defeat all other players before getting a single shot at the boss. If your character dies inside of a raid, it should be deleted.

[kranur]

Man, most people here are clueless. Depending on the difficulty of the raid, a head start can have different psychological impacts on the contenders..
Limit had like what, 6 bosses down before Echo could even start the first boss? When you're that much behind, you panic. For all we knew at the time, the raid could have been cleared in like 12 more hours, probably a terrifying thought for Echo...they had to rush like mad, while probably being frustrated and angry at the unfairness of the situation.
Ofc, Limit also had to deal with the pressure of being ahead, but the race turned from "who is more skilled at playing the game" to "who is mentally stronger", like it does most of the time when it comes to short-lived raid progression...

Same applies when the other one scored the kill. If a guild reached 10/10 and you're the only other guild 9/10 with a lot of progress, may as well go to sleep and get some rest. It doesn't matter anymore.

[Trabsder]

Reset is the main advantage particularly if all bugs are fixed and both guilds are on the final boss around the same time as was the case this tier That being said Limit were superior this race and deserved their win.

[Jabakaga]

You do realize that even in vanilla there were US guilds that were pushing World First kills right? Death & Taxes was a US guild that has many world firsts. Ony & Molten Core were all World Firsts obtained by US guilds. Blackwing Lair were all US guilds that got world firsts. AQ40 were all US guilds that got world firsts with the exception of C'thun which Nihilum a EU guild got. Naxx was all US guilds on world firsts with the exception of Kel'thuzad which went again to Nihilum a EU guild. The BC raids were split heavily between US and EU guilds leaning more towards US guilds in the earlier part of the expansion and EU more towards the end with the exception of end bosses which went to Nilhilum a EU guild except Sunwell which went to SK Gaming a EU guild. WOTLK raids were pretty much the EU guild Ensidia in the beginnging with Ulduar being split between several guilds and a TW guild actually taking Yogg 0 keepers first. The rest of the expansion was heavily US guilds getting world firsts. Cataclysm was US dominated by Blood Legion but there were some KR and OC world first kills too. MOP was split between Blood Legion a US guild and Method a EU guild with Blood Legion getting more world firsts. WOD was where you saw more and more diversity amongst world firsts with plenty of OC world firsts. Legion was dominated by Method on last boss kills but the US guild Limit got most of the other world first kills.


But yeah the US didn't participate in the race for ever right?

Wow was released in USA in November 2004 and in Europe February 2005 quite a lot of headstart in vanilla.

[Usernameforforums]

It matters.
If EU wins, US is extra bad because they had a headstart and still lost.
If US wins it's because they had a headstart and it's unfair.

If eu loses, they’re extra bad as strats made and bugs are already fleshed out. I can make a biased opinion as well.

[gaymer77]

Wow was released in USA in November 2004 and in Europe February 2005 quite a lot of headstart in vanilla.

And yet every expansion they were released for EU & US on the same date and time worldwide and yet there were plenty of US guilds in the race for world first.......

[Ygg]

Of course it is an (unfair and unnecessary) advantage to start a day earlier in a race to world first. I'm certain the race would be better off in terms of engagement and viewership if launch was global instead of staggered. Of course people are going to complain about this situation after every race with a staggered launch. Imagine if it was china starting a day earlier and getting world first. This forum would completely explode! (And possibly a certain someone would declare a presidential order to rectify the situation.)

I am sure this question is getting more attention at blizzard now that the big guilds have started streaming the race live and bring hundreds of thousands of viewers, which blizzard themselves have struggled for years to achieve with the arena world cup and mdi.

[Monoxide]

So I hear a lot saying the time difference between us and eu isn't fair.

That echo had 16 hours to down it.

I can understand that downs while only us has access can't be claimed as world first.

Its only logical that a boss that is downed while only us has access, cannot be claimed as world first.

Is there a better way to determine world first?

Why didn't anyone complain that things were unfair for Method when they were getting every world first for years? It's only an issue now because a US guild pulled it off.

[madmossy]

In this particular instance no it didn't matter that much. Limit where clearly the better contestant at the end.

Although it could be a major issue in future races.

If guild A starts at 8am and guild B starts at 8pm, guild B is automatically at a disadvantage from the get go, they are playing catch up.

If guild A farms previous raid for gear, gets to clear the new raid upto the hardest bosses and then spend time practicing.

Guild B will then have to decide between getting gear or going straight to the raid, not doing so could cost them the race, specially if guild A is getting dangerously close to a kill.

At the end of the race with hindsight it may not even matter, but the possibility is there.

[Druitz]

Of course it does matter. 16 hours is HUGE advantage. If anyone think opposite he just want to defend US world first. Yea, there will always be 2 sides because US players want US guild to win world first race and EU players want the same for EU.

But every single player should answer the same question. If i start faster is it easier to finish faster or harder? By the logic if you start faster than others you have advantage and it's unfair but EU guilds accept it and don't care.

For official leaderboards it's who kill boss first but for a lot of players it's who kill last boss faster after they gain access to raid.

If i run 1 kilometer in for example 3 minutes and someone after me do the same but in 2 minutes who is better? Why me if i was slower?