So is Shadowlands good?

[McNeil]

Its an okay expansion so far. I liked the leveling experience for the first time, it has its goods and bads. Doing it on more characters quickly turned into a slog though. At least reaching max level is pretty fast and they give you more options after your first character did the story campaign. The zones feel few and the terraining is just awful, probably some of the worst they have done yet. As for the zones themselves:

Bastion - Looks beautiful, good music, awful questing
Maldraxxus - Looks bland, decent music, decent questing
Ardenweald - Looks good, beautiful music, bad questing
Revendreth - Looks good, bad music, great questing

Then we get to the Maw... which feels like a zone where they had no idea what to do with it and just slammed some random ideas that may have sounded good on paper (the Jailor fucking around, no mounting to make it feel more threatening, being in constant danger), yet it turned out to be this expansions worst feature. At least you can choose to just ignore this zone. Torghast was imo fun with the first few runs, then it got boring fast and the time investment and reward is just not worth it. Its not exactly fun that I got a boss at 1% (one of them was at literally 6 HP), ended up dying and didn't even get anything out of it. At least I got Bolvars quest done. Both the Maw and Torghast are more frustrating than fun, and if Blizzard doesn't change them then I doubt that I and many other people will even stick around for them.

The covenant system isn't as bad as people were making it out to be. I think its funny how things got revered this way: people thought Torghast was going to be a lot of fun with endless amounts of engagement, while thinking that covenants is impossible to balance and people will even not allow certain players with the wrong covenant in their groups. Yet the opposite happened where Torghast quickly became a borefest and covenants are just alright.

What else does SL even offer... nothing really. No new class which really needed to happen. I guess their core content like dungeons and raids are alright, but other expansions did them better. Gameplay still has issues, PvP got better. Overall I would rate it above Cata, WoD and BFA. Below TBC, WotLK and MoP. On par with Legion.

[Syce]

I personally enjoy it, and the new Raid is very nice. not too mention the next big content patch we will get flying so thats also a plus.

[Sanguinerd]

Meh it's been 4 weeks and I'm pretty much done with it already.

I log in and I'm just bored by whats being offered. The raid feels boring with stupid mechanics for the sake of having mechanics, the bosses are just there because they needed to fill the raid up. The dungeons are too short and hardly memorable(I like Theater of Pain but that's about it). Can't stand the idiotic time-gating on everything and PvP balance is even worse than BFA and just because we have vendors that doesn't excuse it.

Torghast is pretty boring too and doesn't reward nearly enough if anything once you get your stupid legendary which doesn't feel legendary at all. The Maw is just tedious too and I'm not really that excited by soulbinds and conduits either.

Maybe I'm just bored with WoW which is possible too. I would've liked to see the full story of my covenant before my sub runs out but unfortunantly Blizzard says I'm not allowed unless I fork over some more money.

[dzd]

I had 13 alts (14 characters total) at max level at BfA, I could jump on any of them and get them to point of doing keystone master in a matter of 2 weeks.
Now this is just impossible. Not to mention it would be extremely frustrating and painful.

Okay so maybe they should just change keystone master to require m+2 only, so you can get it done fast and move to other things?

Thus having gearing at ~1 month of gameplay was fine (to reach 90% of your maximum power).
Yes people could grind their ass for 2 weeks and be at the same level as you month later but non of those groups were weekly capped.

BfA gearing system till 8.3 (but not included) was pretty much the best gear system we ever had, not perfect but better than Legion, better than old crap and definitely better that we have now.

All you want is more items with higher item level dropping from easier content, which is a very reasonable thing to ask for. You just need to figure out what your real problem is instead of complaining that you feel like shit.

[sunxsera]

Dungeons & Raids are good as allways.
Questing on an alt was a blast with the new leveling method. Had a lot of fun.
Covenants are better than expected. Balancing is kinda fine now.
Thorgast is just meh ... i`m missing some rare mobs in there that actually drop sth. nice. Right now it`s super boring.
Same for the maw. I´m at level 5 before i have really done something.
PvP feels like a stun & burstfest ... so nothing changed really.

The biggest thing that is annoying me is the flying. Every time to oribos ... back and forth .. would have been so nice if every zone had a mini hub with portals to the other zones.

Overall it`s fine.

[Aggrophobic]

Yes, we've had this thread before, but that was during launch. Now we can review what actually matters: the endgame. Is Shadowlands worth it? I feel like people will say "yes" just because it's better than BFA.

No, it's not.
It's also not better than BfA in pretty much any way.

It's a huge disappointment. A very buggy and unfinnished disappointment at that.

[Kel_Sceptic]

But in the end you wont do m+ for the loot, you do it for the weekly vault reward.

Well, I think if you start with that mentality, then it will go down the drain for sure. Why would you do it for the WEEKLY VAULT and not for fun?

We had the Heroic Castle 4mythic dungeon quest, and I haven't done it, even tought I do need that kind of gear since I do only PvP.
But I am had it with Blizzard forcing me to play content that has gear progression other then the only one I like to play, arenas. I will gear only in the content I love/enjoy/want playing and if that doesn't work then I will quit.

Legion and BFA were shi7 at this chapter for forcing us do PvE content to be able to enjoy/be competitive in the PvP content.


In Vanilla/TBC/WotLK, there could have been periods of 3-4 weeks without even 1 new gear item. Dunno what is it will all these people that are buzzard of low gear drops. You do the content because 1. you enjoy doing it, 2. you want to do it, 3. you grow stronger. From my PoV It should not be in another order.

- The pace of leveling was very uneven, and despite being in war mode and doing a lot of side quests, there were 2 times when I was blocked from going further due to my level.

With WM ON I've entered Ardenweald at 58 and was 60 before finishing the zone. Never had issues zone/chain quest progressing.

- The Maw. It was supposed to feel dangerous, but the only danger I've ever felt was going solo to perdition hold, or a raid of alliance camping the entrance. Instead, it just feels extremely tedious, especially given that you have to hunt elites if you want optimal reputation/stygia gains. Started feeling much better once I got the mount (which I was lucky to get), and I still don't get why mounting was disabled to begin with. Plus you have to go there daily, instead of a few times a week (like with callings/emissaries you can pool up to 3 days).

The first 2 days felt weird, but after that I've enjoyed that zone ... for being a fresh, different something something. And the fact that it has tiers and you cannot farm forever, man it is music for my ears.

- I have no idea what they were thinking with honor gear. It should be limited to 184 right at release, and then by the time M+ and raid was released, you should be able to get the maximum item level. No (sane) PvE players would ever feel forced to grind this, considering that you still earn it slower than by just farming mythic+, and versatility is pretty bad for most classes. While getting the high-end gear from PvP seems to be at a pretty decent pace if you already have the "basic" gear, I have no idea how a pure PvP player is supposed to compete with people who do other stuff.

I agree here for the most part, BUT I've seen more PvE geared 30-32k HP people at @1500 rating, just like in BFA. I tryed to discover why are they doing it and it was something like "I hate arenas, but I am surely getting that cool pvp spider mount". And that sux big time, since for a PvP player that only PvPs, that difference in gear is pretty sick, even with 20% versatility. This is my main concern as to how Shadowlands will be, for me, as a PvP only player.

[*]Torghast is woefully unrewarding. Layer 8 runs take longer than a dungeon run, yet reward just soul ash.

So, dointhg M+ after level +15 is also unrewarding, "useless", but it sure doesnt stop people from doing it.

If people hate/don't enjoy doing Torghast content but thay are still forcing themself for a sh17 like 85 Soul Ashes (Layer 7 + Layer 8), then those people have issues. I fk enjoyed doing Layer 8 before nerf, with ilvl 187.

[*]1000 anima weekly. Cause we all love to grind AP eh?

You really call that a "GRIND" ?

So, I've started playing at about 13:00;
-13:04 already got all quests on me and I've started doing them;
-13:23 already done the daily calling (3 rares/treasures) and the world boss is dead;
-already got 453 anima collected out of 1000 for the 2 weekly quests (1 covenant renown and 1 night fae conservatory);
-13:44 already completed the anima collection by doing 2 world quests and 2 weekly quests (maldraxxus Bet on Yourself and Callous Concoctions);
-already completed the quests that required 1000 anima to be collected;

It took 44 mins to do 2 weeklys and 1 daily from Shadowlands's repeatable content. And besides the fact that you will complete it without wanting too, before the end of the week, just by accident, but it isn't even mandatory. It doesn't stop you from progressing. If you've seen, the covenant quest starts if you only get 1 renown, it doesnt need 2.

Grind was the shit that happend in BFA, where you were sitting with azerite gear without the possibility to use it, while others could use those powers, since they were farming the sh17 out of that expansion.
The same sh17 happend in Legion, but, at least, we were pioners in the artifact power grinding, it was new, we didn't know what is it about, and uncovering your artifact weapon's powers was a lot more exciting and meaningfull then the random unpolished sh17 storm we got in BFA with all those azerite traits.

Maybe I'm just bored with WoW which is possible too. I would've liked to see the full story of my covenant before my sub runs out but unfortunantly Blizzard says I'm not allowed unless I fork over some more money.

Sorry man, but if you pay MONEY for a cinema ticket to watch a movie, that doesn't gives you the permission to see then end of the movie in the 1st 20mins of the movie.
It is the way the director wants to show stuff, and it is his decission only.
Sure, you can enter the cinema in the last 20mins of the movie, but you still have to wait outsite the 1st hour

While I agree with you, it should have let us play the whole coevenant story in one go, I have to say I really love power progression gating. It make me feel not left behind, a filthy causal, while all those nerds keep punping mythics for artifact power (remember Legion?).
But even though Suramar was timegated in the same way, it was one of my most memorable questing experiences in WoW. "Who goes there?" "Something is not quite right" "An illusion, what are you hiding?"

[ldev]

No.

• Zones - rushed. They're only 4, they're INCREDIBLY small, and each zone is copy pasted to pad the size (and in the end - they're still small).
• Whole expansion is rushed. Fishing - no quests, no loot, no achievements, "we'll just throw five fishes and call it a day since expansion launches tomorrow lol!". Cooking - same. Archeology - kill.
• Covenants - absolute fucking MASSIVE FLOP. There's no point in arguing about it anymore. Anyone who disagrees can go play Necrolord DH or Necrolord Holy Paladin (after they tried covenants that we are forced to choose, and if they still think "just choose covenant you like blizz will tune numbers" - it means mental institutions have allowed internet access for the holidays for some of their residents, how nice).
• Raiding gives no item rewards. Vault from heroic raiding gives ilvl 213 reward. Facerolling a +8 gives ilvl 216. Fucking failing +10 gives ilvl 220. This is where I unsubscribe, because I don't enjoy using my ilvl 190 weapon that I bought before raids or mythics opened and still haven't got an upgrade.
• Thorgast - from boring slogfest for tanks to running from entrance to exit as fast as you can skipping everything except last floor boss after changes. Both suck.

[Nellise]

I know I'm a weird player in that I'm casual but play more than most people, but what I feared would happen has for me. I don't do any group content any more really. I enjoy world stuff and just random bgs. But there's no path outside of group content to improve my character's gear so for the first time I feel like I'm almost done before even the first major patch. I liked the infinite AP systems since it gave me a reason to do stuff every day (and tf/wf gave me a tiny chance for gear upgrades). Now I finish the weekly quests on Tuesday and I've got no real reason to log in again the rest of the week. They even took away boxes from random bgs so you get nothing if you don't need conquest or honor.

I did like leveling through the story once so I'm not disappointed that I got Shadowlands, but I think I'll be better off quitting for 3 months and coming back and having all the renown stuff be able to unlocked at once rather than dribbled out slowly while wondering why I'm still subbed with nothing to do most of the week.

[Exkrementor]

Too early to tell.

Class balance is still completely fucked. Loot starvation is not fun at all. The maw sucks.
At least you dont have to grind world quests or islands.
Torghast and the raid are pretty good.

It feels more like BFA than like Legion.

Edit: Oh yeah, and leveling is fucking atrocious. Both threads of fate and the campaign.

[Orby]

As of right now I stopped playing two weeks ago, leveled to max level got my covenant and now I am burned out. I saw how frustrating the maw was to do without a mount and the amount of stuff to do in general and I got myself an anxiety attack. I know many people swoon over the idea of 'we need more stuff' or 'there isnt enough to do, we need more' and I have never been one of those, there always been loads of stuff to do in WoW for me, but now looking at that map at the end game, dailies, world quest, torgast, covenant missions, and the overall abundance of stuff along with collections and achievements all of which I wanna do, I am getting some PTSD shit. I just don;t have the time, and even if I did't its too much time wasted.

I am done with WoW for the foreseeable future. This would be the second time I would take a break from WoW. I been playing WoW since vanilla 2005 and only quit once before now and that was during Firelands in Cataclysm, and I didn't return until the end of MoP, unfortunately seeing how high praised MoP generally is I am sad I missed it.

And now 6 years after I returned to WoW, I am now taking another hiatus.

I just wanna play other games... coming back to WoW right now is like trying to eat on a full stomach, it looks nice and you like it but I cannot stomach it right now. This isnt a Blizzard blame, its a me blame, I just cannot WoW no more. Just looking at WoW again is making me recoil in some purified fear. lol

Although I am glad everyone else is enjoying it and WoW is doing well again, it just sucks it comes at a time I have no want to play myself.

[Biggfiner]

It is good, yes! everyone has their own preferences.

[Stricks]

I am absolutely enjoying myself. Taking it slow and have not raided yet. I enjoy the lore a lot and that there are different systems to work on.

[kaminaris]

Actually that's exactly how slot machines do work or did at one time. They were often set up to give you lots of small wins but in the grand scheme would have you losing more than you won. It was also the reason they were initially built with hoppers designed to be loud when the coins hit and to have other audible noises when you won. It was all about giving the appearance of lots of people winning to draw you in. This is also why casino owners would move " loose " machines to the end of aisles so that when people walked by it made it look like people were winning alot. The reality of it was they weren't, but lots of useless hits made it feel like they were.

Ah no, slot machines usually didn't reward you anything. They did give you small rewards from time to time but it was far from common and probability of hitting big score was even less than that.
The average between having hit anything was about 5-8 lever pulls, sometimes even more depending on slot machine. And this is how current system works. You get item in average of ~5-8 runs.
Previous system gave you item pretty much every time. That is far from how slot machines worked.

- - - Updated - - -

Are we seriously doing this? After reading "Blizzard never listens for 12 effing years on this forum, even when clearly there are constantly changes being made in the game based on feedback.

But I guess we should be finally agreeing that "Blizzard never listens" really means "Blizzard never listens to me and only to the wrong people" ^^

Nah dude, blizzard started to listen more of players recently, probably around wod-legion. That was the period where pendulum swings started to happen. Before that:
TBC->Wotlk->Cata->MoP they had pretty clear vision of what game they are doing and each version was improvements, mostly.

- - - Updated - - -

Okay so maybe they should just change keystone master to require m+2 only, so you can get it done fast and move to other things?


All you want is more items with higher item level dropping from easier content, which is a very reasonable thing to ask for. You just need to figure out what your real problem is instead of complaining that you feel like shit.

I know what real problem is, droprates. I already told multiple times. Content has to feel rewarding, 35 anima is shit, like spitting in your face considering WQs rewards 105 of that. That is one major problem and second major problem is disparity between content rewards and weekly bingo lottery. Vault should feel suplementary not mandatory but with +16 ilvls (again, now gap between gear is 3 not 5) it is just too much.

So solution is simple:
1. No halving drops from keys not in time. Always 2 baseline items, 3 items at 10, 4 items at 15, 5 items at 20.
2. Raid bosses double droprate (or at least 66% more)
3. Scaling up to 220 baseline from M+ (at level 15). Vault stays at 226.
4. Vault threshold for raids 2 bosses, 4 bosses, 6 bosses
5. Vault threshold for M+, 1, 3, 5
6. Adjusted rewards and threshold for pvp.

Right now its much harder to get to 15 than to do heroic raid which is simply ridiculous.

[chiddie]

Loot is so common...it needs to be rare!
Loot is rare...it needs to be common!

Flying mounts make things fast and trivial!
Travel is slow and wastes time

Like I've said before...the Devs are damned if they do and damned if they don't...no matter what they do people complain

Or they could simply give common AND meaningful loot, there is no written law for which if you drop a lot it has to be useless loot 90% of time and if you want it not to be useless it has to be one piece from time to time.

[Balbuto]

Well, I think if you start with that mentality, then it will go down the drain for sure. Why would you do it for the WEEKLY VAULT and not for fun?

We had the Heroic Castle 4mythic dungeon quest, and I haven't done it, even tought I do need that kind of gear since I do only PvP.
But I am had it with Blizzard forcing me to play content that has gear progression other then the only one I like to play, arenas. I will gear only in the content I love/enjoy/want playing and if that doesn't work then I will quit.

I hate to bring this up and its probably not a popular opinion but you do realise you are doing PvP in a PvE game, right?

[bluesock]

4. Make story-based raid scenarios, with appropriate loot. a "pre LFR" raid scenario, if you will. learn mechanics, get some upgrades, enjoy the story without waiting to be carried 4 months down the road just to see relevant narrative.

People will probably shit on this, but it's a very good point. Because unless you have some very organized raid group with friends that all want the same thing you'll likely never actually see or experience the story of the raid besides an ending cutscene. 99% of the raid stories are skipped even if you're a mythic raider because you're just trying to down the boss, when there's dialogue and rp promts all over the place which tell a story, that you can't wait 5 minutes and see them because all your raid group is already at the next boss waiting on you to pull it if you choose to wait (note I'm talking about raids in general not just this particular one, because this one didn't have as much going on as others).

Having a "story version" of the raid would actually help in this regard, and I'd even go as far as to say that it should replace LFR entirely.

[Jinpachi]

People will probably shit on this, but it's a very good point. Because unless you have some very organized raid group with friends that all want the same thing you'll likely never actually see or experience the story of the raid besides an ending cutscene. 99% of the raid stories are skipped even if you're a mythic raider because you're just trying to down the boss, when there's dialogue and rp promts all over the place which tell a story, that you can't wait 5 minutes and see them because all your raid group is already at the next boss waiting on you to pull it if you choose to wait (note I'm talking about raids in general not just this particular one, because this one didn't have as much going on as others).

Having a "story version" of the raid would actually help in this regard, and I'd even go as far as to say that it should replace LFR entirely.

I'd be 100% on board with that. How many people have never seen the extra narrative scenes from obtaining thunderfury or shadowmourne? Who knows how much detail people miss when they charge foward, just like you said, to the next boss without stopping to smell the roses, so to speak?

[DeusX]

I dislike the game, so I voted no.
Maybe the game is not that bad, but I am sick of it so I accept it may be a "me" problem and not a WoW problem.

Same old stuff.
- leveling was just in line with everything vs. older xpacs. Maybe BFA was more interesting.
- raid is just same old story, a bit too many mechanics, seems like blizz and aura makers play cat and mouse game
- dungeons are nice, nothing to complain. including MISTS I like them all.
- covenants: interesting concept but annoying due to it's exclusivity characteristic (ex: havoc -> nf or vent, veng -> kyrian, what to choose? why not both? why lock? is it so interesting gamplay?)
- soulbinds and conduits are completely unnecessary annoyance
- Thorgast became boring, tried to do soime skips => no anima power to defeat last boss, so now I need to just almost full clear to get buffed as fucked to be able to complete
- maw I dont care, i just do the 5 souls quest and get out => fuck gems, if Echo or Limit didnt need them, I dont need them either
- Arena rush games in 2v2
-wq ok since not too much mandatory

All in all I am going to unsub, but hard to get myself the guts to tell my guildmates.

[Osmeric]

All in all I am going to unsub, but hard to get myself the guts to tell my guildmates.

If they are acting ambivalent I suspect many are themselves feeling the same way.