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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    No, it doesnt. Not if the race is Kill It First.

    If the race was Kill it Fastest then it absolutely matters and you can't declare a winner until the releases are all done and the fastest time from release to clear is known.

    The thing is, this has never been a Fastest Kill race, it's always been simply "First".
    that literaly opposite of reality, if the race was who killed in less time it wouldnt matter if it was released even two days later somewhere, but since the race is who kills it first it does matter if someone can start 16h (think it was less due to maintenance) sooner...
    thats like letting someone start matarhon an hour earlier than others and say its fair he won bcs he was in finish first...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    No.

    It didn't before, it doesn't now. People are just being sore "losers". This shit should be about the guilds, not EU vs NA. But alas, people gon' people. And people, are petty fucks.
    honestly i couldnt care less who won, but objectively speaking comparing who finished first when someone have over a half day head start seems a bit unfair...

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Healzerbot View Post
    So I hear a lot saying the time difference between us and eu isn't fair.

    That echo had 16 hours to down it.

    I can understand that downs while only us has access can't be claimed as world first.

    Its only logical that a boss that is downed while only us has access, cannot be claimed as world first.

    Is there a better way to determine world first?
    Doesn't seem it mattered this time around. If anything, Limit starting earlier and getting Blizzard to fix bugs (not to mentioned allowing others to see their strats) before Echo got started made the race seem much closer than it would otherwise.

  3. #103
    Of course it matters, you have to be delusional to think a head start in a world first race doesn't matter, especially with the resets. It has obviously not been an issue so far since EU kept winning despite the disadvantages. I'm certain they'll do something for the next time since this world first is basically written off for a lot of people.
    Man often meets his destiny, on the path he takes to avoid it.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    Honestly if anyone is using cheat mode it’s EU. While the time difference does favour the US the EU guilds get the benefit of watching strategies used for early bosses which enable them to catch up faster
    you do realise those guilds have usualy acces to beta/ptr so they already perfected their strategies before the race even starts?
    so this "advantage" might save them in some cases 1-2 hours at best... sure it helps, but compared to 16h head start its kind of weak...

  5. #105
    We really need a NA org to acquire or partner with Echo and get the whole squad relocate to NA, so we can finally put an end to these debates

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Usernameforforums View Post
    If eu loses, they’re extra bad as strats made and bugs are already fleshed out.
    yeah, from beta/ptr before race even starts

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by CalamityHeart View Post
    It doesn't matter any more than any other factor separating them. It'll always come down more to the skill of the team than it ever will to who started first or any other reason that the losing side could try to bring up to delegitimize the victor's win. By the end of the race, both teams were at a point where any pull could've been the kill pull. It was that close. Limit just managed to find that ideal execution before Echo did.

    Regardless, they're both incredible guilds, guild leaders, and raid teams who did extremely well to get world first and second within a day of each other, and no one can say otherwise.


    Let’s put like this say there is an automobile race and one car gets to start 16 minutes in front of the other car it really doesn’t matter at all the driver with the most skill will always win! There is nothing the other driver could do to delegitimize that win everything was fair and square, equal and equitable .... this makes no sense at all the race is not an fair race when there is a head start like that. It’s just common sense. I’m in the US and I’m not a fanboy of anyone but people saying a 16 hour head start doesn’t matter are insane.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    This is where we pretend that one region winning for over a decade and being perfectly fucking okay with the terms of the race they're participating in is somehow completely unrelated to that same fucking region suddenly sternly demanding the terms change the very moment they begin to lose. There's absolutely no correlation there, whatsoever. Nope. Just completely reasonable, non-biased people giving completely reasonable, non-biased opinions.
    This line of argumentation would make sense if EU previously benefited from this situation. It didn't. US always started first and EU won despite that. On top of that the idea that people were "perfectly fucking okay" with it is nothing more than a lie, because the reset difference has been raised over and over again in each goddamn race since Vanilla.


    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    In other words, "it's okay to shit on NA as long as they know EU is better."
    And at this point you're just blatantly putting words into @Yarathir's mouth because you have no actual argument. And even if there was any shitting on NA there, which there was not, what you seem for some reason unable to grasp that previously NA was losing despite having an advantage. And if someone can't win even when having such headstart, the "shitting" that their opponent is better is just a fact. It's not exactly complicated, yet you still seem unable to comprehend it. Although my money's on it being a deliberate shtick.
    Last edited by Mehrunes; 2020-12-25 at 03:50 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  9. #109
    NA getting the raid earlier doesnt matter nearly as much as them getting weekly reset one day earlier. Unless Blizzard changes to global weekly reset nothing matters.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Plve View Post
    Let’s put like this say there is an automobile race and one car gets to start 16 minutes in front of the other car it really doesn’t matter at all the driver with the most skill will always win! There is nothing the other driver could do to delegitimize that win everything was fair and square, equal and equitable .... this makes no sense at all the race is not an fair race when there is a head start like that. It’s just common sense. I’m in the US and I’m not a fanboy of anyone but people saying a 16 hour head start doesn’t matter are insane.
    I think you might've missed my point. I didn't say that it didn't matter. I said that it didn't matter more than the other factors that separated Limit and Echo over the course of the race. Or in other words, if that wasn't clear enough, it's not the only thing that matters. And it still ultimately doesn't matter more than player skill.

    That's why trying to analogize the RWF to an actual footrace or car race and calling it "common sense" is fucking stupid. Because raiding is not that simple. It's more like a puzzle maze than it is a racetrack. Would a global release of the raid be better, and solve these "fairness" issues? On paper, yes. In a perfect set of pocket dimensions for each guild that can't be looked into from the outside and where time and fatigue have no meaning, making sure that everyone starts the race simultaneously would be the final step in making sure that the race to world first is indisputably, inarguably, 101% fair. And people would even find some way to cry about that, probably.

    There's no way to make the Race to World First fair in the eyes of fans. Even coming slightly close is more effort than Blizzard will ever want to exert. But as it stands right now, the sum of the "unfairnesses" of the race, beyond just starting first, is not greater than the amount of skill that it still just takes to even clear the raid. So again, congratulations to Limit on World First, and to Echo on World Second. Both are absolutely deserved, and no one can say otherwise.

  11. #111
    Elemental Lord callipygoustp's Avatar
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    Of course it matters. Come on now.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by callipygoustp View Post
    Of course it matters. Come on now.
    Both top guilds said it doesn't matter and it never mattered in the past.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by gaymer77 View Post
    And yet every expansion they were released for EU & US on the same date and time worldwide and yet there were plenty of US guilds in the race for world first.......
    Never said anything they werent competetive I remember Death and taxes would probably have taken c'thun world first if blizz would have released bug fix sooner but you listed raids such as MC and BWL, US was probably done with MC before WoW was released in Europe and in BWL US was way ahead of Europe since gearing in vanilla took serious time.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by gcsmith View Post
    "They didn't kill it in that time frame despite stopping the moment the other guild killed it to take a break and get some sleep and come back refreshed." Besides, you can argue all you want that it didn't effect this world first race. But my argument is answering the question "Does time difference between servers effect world first races?" Where the answer is it undoubtedly does.

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    I mean, this is the closest we will get. The question is what time they choose to make it as fair as possible.
    well its never going to be perfect ofc,but whatever time they pick,it would still be better than a 16 hour difference,everyone works around the release anyways when they go for the world firsts

  15. #115
    Elemental Lord callipygoustp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kilik View Post
    Both top guilds said it doesn't matter and it never mattered in the past.
    Then I refer you to my first post in this thread. It's on page 1.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Ealyssa View Post
    Imagine a nascar race where the favorite gets a 2 lap headstart.

    Some people here think it's fair
    Your analogy doesn't fit at all. Race to world first is not even an official race. Its literally company releasing their product and few kids making a deal out of it on whos going to beat the game faster. Nascar is an official event with set rules, date and time. Now everyone who wants to participate has to show up in the given location at the given time or else you are out. Same could be applied to WoW, Blizzard announces ahead of time, well its fucking known for over a decade that the raid releases in 1 region few hours faster, so how about Echo shows up there for the race instead of complaining? Imagine professional athlete not showing up for competition because oooh its too far from me this is unfair. He would get mocked to oblivion. Nobody gets any kind of headstart.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Einsz View Post
    Your analogy doesn't fit at all. Race to world first is not even an official race. Its literally company releasing their product and few kids making a deal out of it on whos going to beat the game faster. Nascar is an official event with set rules, date and time. Now everyone who wants to participate has to show up in the given location at the given time or else you are out. Same could be applied to WoW, Blizzard announces ahead of time, well its fucking known for over a decade that the raid releases in 1 region few hours faster, so how about Echo shows up there for the race instead of complaining? Imagine professional athlete not showing up for competition because oooh its too far from me this is unfair. He would get mocked to oblivion. Nobody gets any kind of headstart.
    Of course someone gets a headstart. If something is released earlier in one region then that region gets a headstart.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Dahij View Post
    Of course someone gets a headstart. If something is released earlier in one region then that region gets a headstart.
    No, you can play in that region as well, its not exclusive.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Einsz View Post
    Your analogy doesn't fit at all. Race to world first is not even an official race. Its literally company releasing their product and few kids making a deal out of it on whos going to beat the game faster. Nascar is an official event with set rules, date and time. Now everyone who wants to participate has to show up in the given location at the given time or else you are out. Same could be applied to WoW, Blizzard announces ahead of time, well its fucking known for over a decade that the raid releases in 1 region few hours faster, so how about Echo shows up there for the race instead of complaining? Imagine professional athlete not showing up for competition because oooh its too far from me this is unfair. He would get mocked to oblivion. Nobody gets any kind of headstart.
    Well said! Everyone has the ability to start on the same maintenance schedule if they chose. It's not hard to play on U.S. servers and use sponsor money to come here a few weeks a year for "work"

    A true blizz sponsored competition would have everyone on the same latency, start time, gear level, and class options. The nature of gearing/class combos inherently makes it an uneven competition from the day mythic raid is released.

    There's no reason to take it so seriously with all the streaming/non-streaming/start times debates.

  20. #120
    To anyone who think it doesn't matter: would you be okay if Blizzard flipped the table and had EU maintenance on Tuesday and US on Wednesday? Another issue is that EU guilds will NEVER be able to get world first kills on the earlier bosses (you could argue that they don't matter, but how are those kills counted as "world first" when America is the only one attending? Of course it wasn't such a big issue when EU guilds were winning despite the disadvantage. It isn't hard to understand the reason behind it.

    Also, suggesting that it is only a community made issue is pretty stupid, or that American guilds could just agree to start a day later unreasonable; they would lose 1 raiding day for that week. This is something that needs to be corrected by Blizzard if it is to be done correctly.
    Last edited by Spitko; 2020-12-25 at 05:37 PM.

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