About the Night Elves, Elune and Sylvanas

[darkoms]

i gotta say I laughed my ass off when I read that. its so damn correct.

Danuser has no shame, regarding him and his waifu. Story be damned.

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what the heck. when did they do this?

Only one clan of orcs actually did this, and when the draenei destroyed them, the rest of the orcs began to fear the draenei, which is why they so easily believed in Guldan's lies.

[Super Dickmann]

what the heck. when did they do this?

It was one clan, the Bladewind clan, that raided the draenei caravans occasionally. Despite being massively more advanced than a single clan Velen had used his powers of prophecy to learn from the greatest exemplar of leadership of all time - Baine. Knowing that if you let your enemies kill you, you win, Velen banned his vindicators from striking back against the Bladewind and just rolled with it for years, putting up guards that reduced the number of attacks but still resulted in draenei being captured and raped. As a result, during the droughts Gul'dan inflicted, he convinced the Bladewind to sacrifice Draenei in order to try and make it stop and Maraad actually attacked once his sister was abducted, wiping all but a few out.

Those who escaped were killed by Gul'dan who later used this as pretext for the orcs to show them the draenei's hostile intent. Combined with the rituals being to appease the elements, ancestor spirits (actually KJ) appealing to the orcs for war and the draenei's attack being interpretable as them stopping the drought from ending forcibly this was one of the things Gul'dan used to get the orcs on board for war.

[Mungho]

It was one clan, the Bladewind clan, that raided the draenei caravans occasionally. Despite being massively more advanced than a single clan Velen had used his powers of prophecy to learn from the greatest exemplar of leadership of all time - Baine. Knowing that if you let your enemies kill you, you win, Velen banned his vindicators from striking back against the Bladewind and just rolled with it for years, putting up guards that reduced the number of attacks but still resulted in draenei being captured and raped. As a result, during the droughts Gul'dan inflicted, he convinced the Bladewind to sacrifice Draenei in order to try and make it stop and Maraad actually attacked once his sister was abducted, wiping all but a few out.

Those who escaped were killed by Gul'dan who later used this as pretext for the orcs to show them the draenei's hostile intent. Combined with the rituals being to appease the elements, ancestor spirits (actually KJ) appealing to the orcs for war and the draenei's attack being interpretable as them stopping the drought from ending forcibly this was one of the things Gul'dan used to get the orcs on board for war.

Ah, okay, thanks for the clarification. So it was only one clan. I hadn't read chronicles, but I'd kept hearing the above that they'd retconned the orcs to be even worse then even WOD had shown them.

[Super Dickmann]

Ah, okay, thanks for the clarification. So it was only one clan. I hadn't read chronicles, but I'd kept hearing the above that they'd retconned the orcs to be even worse then even WOD had shown them.

If anything Chronicle's version is actually the best take on it we've had thus far regarding the orcs getting brought into the war and does the best it can with making the orcish victory over the draenei make sense. This is one of the really weak parts though in terms of making Velen act like a tard for no reason.

[VladlTutushkin]

If you're especially zealous yes, you'd probably expect your divine goddess to do SOMETHING, and you'd probably lose faith in your goddess at some point if she didn't and you just got dumpstered at every turn.

Sylvanas was the straw that broke the camels back for the elves that were raised. Not every night elf was alive to witness the Sundering that followed the War of the Ancients some are born after that event, the same elves that lost their faith during Sylvanas' burning of one of the most scared things in Night Elven society might also have lost faith in Elune during the War of the Ancients.

SOMETHING has disillusioned the Night Elves that were raised, had it been during the Cataclysm your argument would've been why didn't Archimonde do it, and had Archimonde broken their faith you would've asked why Sargeras hadn't done it.

Teldrassil was the straw that broke the camel's back for the Night Elves that accepted undeath. They were raised and were likely so bitter that they'd do anything to spite a goddess that had failed them, even joining her enemies and killing her followers

You gotta remember, being undead canonically alters your outlook, the elves that were raised weren't the same as those who died. Arthas' had his soul taken and felt nothing as he butchered his way through Lordaeron and killed Uther.

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Enemies want to kill or defeat you, that's what they do. Respect between combatants isn't rare, and the Night Elves probably didn't expect anything from the Forsaken than death and destruction

A goddess on the other hand is supposed to, in their minds probably, have your back, and Elune didn't. Elune has time and time again let the elves die.

We as players looking at it from the outside can probably deduce that Elune isn't capable of intervening but a zealous Elf might not believe that.

Nah. Thats just asspulled, bullshit plot made by Blizz to grind the heel into the night elven face and twist the dagger more. Nothing more. Nothing less. Those undead nelves? Might as well be deleted tomorrow.

[tripleh]

The current writers are just like the writers disney has for starwars. Trying to ignore past instances in order to change the story into there own work. In order to try to make a name for themselves to take any credit if the story does well with viewers. Like alot of retcons in wow. Remember Danuser said what happens in books is cannon to what happens in game. So they promote the books but in this instance you got to seperate worlds. The book and the game with different things unfolding.

[VladlTutushkin]

Asspulled? Perhaps. Worthy of deletion? Entirely subjective

What I said is reasonable and justifiable of fanatic zealots, that they'd care more about getting back at a god they had a skewed view of in life, than not betraying their people.

You've added nothing to the conversation

Because i already had that conversation and “added” to it a million times. And in the end all i feel now is that they just wanted to hurt already reeling fanbase and completely crush them into despair and refusal to continue. Weird thing is that they seem to at the same time try and prop that “we are not cucking the nelves” thing while relentlessly cucking the nelves. Because just burning and genocide wasnt enough they had to pull “same shiet as Arthas did” but then added that “but with consent” which just sounds sticky and slimy and wrong.
“H-hey we literally doing the same horrible thing that sylvanas uses as her excuse every time but... b-but they were totes in agreement and not forced! All w-with consent!”.

[Whitedragon]

Any time where any character who isn't wholly selfish and self serving accepted Sylvanas as a leader right after her forces kill them, and didn't immediately try killing her again, I found really stupid. A few maybe, but she seems to have close to 100% conversion rate for people she raises (keep in mind for the most part they haven't reneged on the "free will" she supposedly lets them have) which is just crazy...

Do you think if the Lichking gave everyone he raised free will during his time would 99% them say "ahh dang you got me, well time to INSTANTLY turn on everything I know, love, and fought and died to protect by joining the one destroying it, because now I for some reason fear death more then anything else, and maaayyybeee my old kinsmen won't like me anymore?"...

[VladlTutushkin]

Any time where any character who isn't wholly selfish and self serving accepted Sylvanas as a leader right after her forces kill them, and didn't immediately try killing her again, I found really stupid. A few maybe, but she seems to have close to 100% conversion rate for people she raises (keep in mind for the most part they haven't reneged on the "free will" she supposedly lets them have) which is just crazy...

Do you think if the Lichking gave everyone he raised free will during his time would 99% them say "ahh dang you got me, well time to INSTANTLY turn on everything I know, love, and fought and died to protect by joining the one destroying it, because now I for some reason fear death more then anything else, and maaayyybeee my old kinsmen won't like me anymore?"...

Actually that. 90% of the Scourge would have (and did if we talking about Forsaken) ripped Arthas into bloody ribbons and threw them like confetti around if they had a chance. Obviously some were fanatics of the Cult of the Damned or Liches or just evil but it was a minority ruling over majority that had to be CONSTANTLY kept in check by the Helm. Moment this power faded just a bit we got Forsaken. And yet sylvanas never ran into that issue...

[Eapoe]

Find this in Wowpedia

After being raised as a Forsaken in-game, Sira tells Horde players that the newly resurrected night elves have their own reasons for accepting the Val'kyr's gift.[18] However, when confronted by Tyrande in Shadows Rising, Sira claims that she did not choose to return.


When asked if this was a deliberate retcon, Madeleine Roux stated "I'd like to rebuttal with 'Not every character tells the truth all the time'. We're not in Sira's head in that moment. We don't know what she's thinking or why she's saying what she's saying. She is in a prison with a woman who is probably coming to execute her. [...] People react differently in different situations. The Sira you see alone in a jail cell surrounded by enemies is not the Sira you see swaggering around in the jungle giving guff to Nathanos, right? Like, circumstances matter and context matters, so to me, in that moment [...] it's like every circumstance has to come together in that moment for [Tyrande] to not [kill Sira]. [...] So that's what I would say: people lie a lot and especially when self-preservation is potentially on the line. So yeah, and I think hopefully it's obvious that Sira does not act the same way in that scene as she would if she was with her allies. She's responding to context, is what I would say in that scenario."[19]

It turns out very funny. Sira lied to Tyrande about not wanting to return and was telling the truth when she said that the resurrected elves had reasons to accept the gift. What reasons? Resentment against Elune and Tyrande? This has been discussed many times, but I will say it again. This plot is incredibly, absolutely and impossible, stupid and miserable, and the one who wrote it (and most likely it was Danuser, because only he could write such nonsense to make his waifu look even cooler) is a clinical idiot. I just don’t understand how the returned night elves side with SILVANAS, who killed them. I would understand if they were against Sylvanas and Tyrande, but to fight for the one who killed you and your loved ones is just incredibly stupid. Well, the resentment against Elune also looks very funny. Did the Night Elves expect Elune to descend from the skies and personally destroy all enemies? I mean, she didn't do it in the War of the Ancients, in the Third War, in the Cataclysm, but the elves didn't lose faith in her. Because of this, this situation turns out

Who could not break the faith of the night elves:
Sargeras
Archimonde
Deathwing

Who could break the faith of the night elves:
Sylvanas

Or Madeline f’d up and is covering her tracks because of it.