Warhammer 40K: Darktide

[RadasNoir]

Are they really considered contenders? Other than Tau themselves, the only 40k faction that doesn't act in a seemingly random pattern is Imperium, and Imperium certainly doesn't consider Tau contenders. Sure, they can capture a couple of Imperial systems before any significant defence force can be mobilized, but there's still a million more to go. It would take a full scale crusade, but IoM could easily wipe them out, but then there's nothing to gain (since xeno tech is heresy, and tech is the only thing they have) and much more pressing matters. Tau are a tiny fish in a pool full of sharks, and so they simply stay under the radar of any major faction.

From a meta perspective, they would have to be considered contenders to deserve having their own rulebook and models, and being featured as a playable faction in a number of WH40k games, no?

As I mentioned, their territory is rather small and, as you alluded to, their manpower and manufacturing capabilities are much more limited compared to something like the Imperium, but as far as the story and setting is concerned, the Tau generally can't be ignored when they do make a significant appearance near one of the major factions.

The fact that the full extent of their existence has flown under the radar thus far is actually what has given them the time to advance as far as they have and, as I understand it, in some of the more recent Tau lore, certain parts of the Tau military are slowly figuring out the fact that they are a tiny fish in a big pond, and just how scary the rest of that pond is.

[ParanoiD84]

I love the bit of lore when a tau is scanning the inside of a dreadnought and realises to his horror that the marine inside is older then their race is.

Here is the excerpt from the Blades of Damocles novel if anyone is intrested in reading.

Milky fluid drizzled form the crippled war machine's chest unit, bubbling and popping in the electrical fires swathing its legs. Lubricant, thought Bravestorm. He zoomed in. The fluid was shot through with blood.

Something was moving inside the torso unit. Something broken and sick.

The Commander decides to take a look inside.

The creature that stared back made his breath catch.

A twisted and grotesque figure was trapped inside, all barrel chest and athropied stumps. It stared at him from sunken sockets, its undisguised hatred almost palpable. Wires and tubes penetrated its horrifically abused body in a hundred places. it wheezed, red-black fluids spilling from a broken jaw that worked and gummed as if it could click black into place through willpower alone.

[...] The commander recoiled as the thing's stink was filtered through his olfactory relay, and the battlesuit jerked upright in response. His autotrans spooled, rendering the creature's slurred words in the Tau lexicon.

'- -DIE IN PAIN - - FOREIGN WORM THING - -'

The commander next uses a geological tool in his foot to scan the Space Marine.

The necrotic thing was human, or a close derivative. Extensive tissue damage, rejuvenation scars, and...

The commander looked again in horror.

Somehow, the vile thing was over six thousand years old.

A macabre realisation crept through Bravestorm's mind. This abomination had been trapped its armoured war-coffin long before the Tau's ancestors had first emerged from their caves. What manner of enemy were their fighting on Dal'yth?

'- -KILL ME - - VEXING FOOL - -' spooled the autotrans. '- - KILL ME - - OR I SHALL HUNT YOU UNTIL DEATH - -

Bravestorm triggered his plasma rifle, and the creature met its final oblivion.

[RadasNoir]

I know most WH40k fans aren't fond of the Tau, for one reason or another, but one of the things I like about them specifically is the fact that they have such an outsider's perspective on the rest of the universe. They basically play the role that humans typically take in a sci-fi horror movie.

[Airlick]

From a meta perspective, they would have to be considered contenders to deserve having their own rulebook and models, and being featured as a playable faction in a number of WH40k games, no?

As I mentioned, their territory is rather small and, as you alluded to, their manpower and manufacturing capabilities are much more limited compared to something like the Imperium, but as far as the story and setting is concerned, the Tau generally can't be ignored when they do make a significant appearance near one of the major factions.

The fact that the full extent of their existence has flown under the radar thus far is actually what has given them the time to advance as far as they have and, as I understand it, in some of the more recent Tau lore, certain parts of the Tau military are slowly figuring out the fact that they are a tiny fish in a big pond, and just how scary the rest of that pond is.

No argument there, Tau are certainly a major faction in that they have significant lore and tabletop representation. What I personally don't like about them is that I don't think they fit the narrative at all, and I don't mean they are "good" in a universe filled with bad, just that they need a huge plot armor in order to have them survive in the lore. So whenever they are attacked or attack someone, they are conveniently faced with just enough force that they can beat them or force a draw.

Their plot armor is logical for the most part - Imperium has more important enemies, Orks don't care because Tau don't give them a proper fight, Chaos doesn't care because Tau have no souls... But it's still obvious it is a plot armor - it would only take a single slip-up or misfortune (like being on the path of a Tyranid fleet - oh wait, they were, but they got shielded by Imperium and Eldar) for the whole race to get wiped out, but that slip-up conveniently never comes. All of the other factions, well, except of Eldar, are too big to fall and so they can and do lose wars without affecting the status quo much, it's only Tau that are special snowflakes that never lose because it would affect the tabletop and sales if they did.

[Saltysquidoon]

In fairness, every race not called Orks and Tyranids needs plot armour to survive (this is coming from a CWE guy).
CWE have to constantly rely on 'justasplanned' ruses every time something sneezes near a craftworld
DE rely on Commorragh being infinitely large and in a super special mega secure section of the webway
There are about 500 BL books about how when all hope was lost Brother-Sargent Protagonistus single-handedly slays the Deamon Prince Antagonis to save the latinnamium sector for another day.

[RadasNoir]

I was gonna say, I'm not aware of the specific incident regarding the Tau being saved from the Tyranids, but they are most definitely not the only race that has needed outside help when it comes to them. In fact, as I understand it, a major Tyranid incursion is one of the few things that can actually cause certain factions to begrudgingly work together.

[ParanoiD84]

I was gonna say, I'm not aware of the specific incident regarding the Tau being saved from the Tyranids, but they are most definitely not the only race that has needed outside help when it comes to them. In fact, as I understand it, a major Tyranid incursion is one of the few things that can actually cause certain factions to begrudgingly work together.

The Blood Angels And Necrons once did but it was a very loose non agression deal, Dante had their rhino fully loaded with cyclonic torpedos when he met with the silent king and all 3 BA's had detonators, the silent king also just used the BA's against the nids.

Btw the Silent King has been outside of the galaxy waging war against the tyranids for some time now. He's one of few that's been awake for 60 million years instead of sleeping, Trazyn the Infinite is another one.

[Airlick]

I was gonna say, I'm not aware of the specific incident regarding the Tau being saved from the Tyranids, but they are most definitely not the only race that has needed outside help when it comes to them. In fact, as I understand it, a major Tyranid incursion is one of the few things that can actually cause certain factions to begrudgingly work together.

Well, it was Hivefleet Kraken that was headed towards Tau territory, but was destroyed by Imperium and Eldar before it got there. Exactly the kind of plot armor case, since the Tau would have less than 0 chance of beating it. Before that it was Gorgon, which was a rough fight for the Tau, even though it was just a splinter fleet and it was only beaten with IG and Imperial Fleet help - which only appeared there due to warp ex machina.

I may sound like I'm some kind of Tau hater, which is not the case - I would just like to see the Tau get big enough that they don't have to rely on obvious plot armor and flukes.

[Sting]

Not a huge fan of the sound design in the trailer. I would've preferred something more chunky and meaty sounding, the melee hits sound like slaps and the rifle doesn't bring that oomph I like out of 40k either. Gameplay will probably be solid though.

[KrayZ33]

Not a huge fan of the sound design in the trailer. I would've preferred something more chunky and meaty sounding, the melee hits sound like slaps and the rifle doesn't bring that oomph I like out of 40k either. Gameplay will probably be solid though.

The Lasgun or the other ones?
The Lasguns were suprisingly impactful in the trailer imho, considering that they are portrayed as the complete opposite... or so I thought?

[Sting]

The Lasgun or the other ones?
The Lasguns were suprisingly impactful in the trailer imho, considering that they are portrayed as the complete opposite... or so I thought?

Purely the sound, for example look at 1:27 or 1:40 in the gameplay trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-UifdRoC8I - the lasgun sounds like its shooting bullets, complete with recoil. Lorewise, afaik that recoil should not happen for most lasguns and the firing sound should be more of a cracking sound (like sticks snapping) if we use Dan Abnett's series as source material.

[Torched]

Well, it was Hivefleet Kraken that was headed towards Tau territory, but was destroyed by Imperium and Eldar before it got there. Exactly the kind of plot armor case, since the Tau would have less than 0 chance of beating it. Before that it was Gorgon, which was a rough fight for the Tau, even though it was just a splinter fleet and it was only beaten with IG and Imperial Fleet help - which only appeared there due to warp ex machina.

I may sound like I'm some kind of Tau hater, which is not the case - I would just like to see the Tau get big enough that they don't have to rely on obvious plot armor and flukes.

Might wanna watch this video of when the Tau meet the Dark Eldar for the first time, the Dark Eldar "helped" them with a Nyd invasion, for a price.

[Saltysquidoon]

Purely the sound, for example look at 1:27 or 1:40 in the gameplay trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-UifdRoC8I - the lasgun sounds like its shooting bullets, complete with recoil. Lorewise, afaik that recoil should not happen for most lasguns and the firing sound should be more of a cracking sound (like sticks snapping) if we use Dan Abnett's series as source material.

Yeah, I had a listen just then and I'm not sure if it's just because of the music but it doesn't sound like it's making a noticeable enough snap for me.

[NoiseTank13]

Which is strange considering the 2 handed maces in Vermintide are incredible satisfying.

[Zuben]

This intrigues me much more than another go at zombies. Never played Vermintide, but heard good things about it.

[ParanoiD84]

This intrigues me much more than another go at zombies. Never played Vermintide, but heard good things about it.

There will be plenty of zombie like hordes in this too called poxwalkers but the unit diversity in 40k is pretty much endless compared to lets say left 4 dead that are locked into zombies.

They could add a shit ton of different enemies and variations here and i bet they will too in dlc's and expansions maby not orks and tyranids though. There will also be traitor guardsmen in this and other nurgle units.

Dunno about the new back for blood aka left4dead but i thought this looked better but im biased lol but i hope both do well.

- - - Updated - - -

The Lasgun or the other ones?
The Lasguns were suprisingly impactful in the trailer imho, considering that they are portrayed as the complete opposite... or so I thought?

Lasguns in lore will cook you alive and remove limbs but it also depends on writer sometimes a marine will tank hundreds of lasgun fire but can also down marines with enough firepower in others and the Astra Militarum got the numbers lol they draft trillions each year and billions each day.

There is plenty of memes of the guard and lasguns aka flashlights but the reality is that they are the ones winning wars for the imperium and they face the absolute worst cosmic horrors around and wage war across thousands of battlefields each day. Adeptus Astartes are simply not enough to be everywhere they are only around one million or more as some chapters dont follow Guillimans Codex Astartes like the Black templars they are rumored to be around 6-10K. Else they should be 1k in a chapter and there is about one thousand chapters more now with primaris chapters too.

The guard also have some extremely good specialized regiments like the Death korps of krieg for sieges, utterly fearless and want nothing more then giving their lives for the emperor abit to eager perhaps

They once barraged a hive city for 5 years untill they surrendered because they stopped paying tithes, they then barraged them for 5 more years to show that you dont fuck with the imperium, there was nothing left of that hive after those 10 years

It was called the Siege of Derondii

After five years of relentless shelling, the rebels offered their unconditional surrender to the Imperium; they were ignored, and the shelling continued for another five years. All signs of life in the hive ceased after just three, but the bombardment still continued for another two years

And yeah they also routinely request to fight in the galaxy's deadliest warzones, you dont fuck with Krieg.

People also call lasguns flashlights as they expect them to oneshot tanks and tyranid hive tyrants

Lasguns also comes in hundreds of different variations.

Also i guess the lasgun having recoil is simply for rule of cool in this game. Would perhaps look wierd without one but i do agree on the sound but i bet they will work on that.

[Easo]

To put it simply - lasgun right now would be every general's and soldier's wet dream - roughly the power of .50 cal (can blow off limbs in one hit) while still in the standard rifle size and weight, basically 100% accuracy, huge magazine which can be recharged in multiple ways including throwing it in fire (literally) thus easing logistics a lot, etc.

Problem is that every enemy is 40k is over the top in some sort of way and wielding stupidly overpowered weapons when compared to the lasgun.

[ParanoiD84]

To put it simply - lasgun right now would be every general's and soldier's wet dream - roughly the power of .50 cal (can blow off limbs in one hit) while still in the standard rifle size and weight, basically 100% accuracy, huge magazine which can be recharged in multiple ways including throwing it in fire (literally) thus easing logistics a lot, etc.

Problem is that every enemy is 40k is over the top in some sort of way and wielding stupidly overpowered weapons when compared to the lasgun.

Exactly it's a extremely good weapon just not against the horrors the astra militarum faces like daemons and necrons etc but they have other ways to deal with that.

[Mistame]

Not really a fan of the WH FPS stuff, but Vermintide wasn't bad. Wake me up when there's a valid sequel to Dawn of War II. No, III does not count.

[Easo]

Not really a fan of the WH FPS stuff, but Vermintide wasn't bad. Wake me up when there's a valid sequel to Dawn of War II. No, III does not count.

What, you didn't like Gabriel doing backflips in terminator armor?