Nahhh Paladins need a nerf ASAP

[yomammyass]

There's your problem. No PvP is balanced around 1v1 ever and they won't nerf a class just based on 1v1. They base it on around teamplay and *I think* the last time they talked about it that it was more balanced around 3v3.

Questions you should be asking are "How can you counter during the 6/8 sec (I forgot the duration of it) that bubble is up"? I saw you mention DH so why not double fel rush away? Yes, you could get stunned but then you have a trinket for that situation. That's off the top of my head.

The problem is that the bubble is up all the time, it has minimal CD even after the duel has ended the new one becomes ready and same shit all over again, whereas DH has the biggest DMG spell which is meta and has a 4 min CD or 2 min depends on your choice. Just dueled another pally, used netherwalk and shadowmeld to delay the bubble, but it still does not help where you as a DH has shitty healing abilities comparing to a paladin, where he does heal 50% of hp + high damage. You can't compete with that. I am 200 ilvl versa 24% and don't tell me 'git gud', because I am rated above 1800 in any bracket.

The numbers don't lie. Paladins tank has higher healing than the healers? I mean wtf I saw in many arena scoreboards and there are issues. As I said number of times. I don't mind the damage, but I mind the self healing. They heal like they were in a healing spec.

"Oh, tanks need selfhealing, because sometimes it can mean you could avoid a raid wipe" Cool, thats fine. But reduce the healing in PVP situations.

[bluesock]

The base damage for TV is under 3K. Please show how that becomes 21K. Critical (x2) x Wings (we'll be generous and assume full Crusade) (x1.3) x Final Reckoning (x1.3) = ~10K. Now find another doubling of damage.

Also, this complaint coming from a DH is pretty rish given their passive healing, and massive damage output (not to mention The Hunt).

I have more than 2 functioning brain cells so I don't play ret, I have no idea where that damage is coming from nor do I care. Point is they do that kind of damage, and it's broken that's about it.

Also I never said I played a dh? I have no idea where that's coming from.

[Crruor]

The base damage for TV is under 3K. Please show how that becomes 21K. Critical (x2) x Wings (we'll be generous and assume full Crusade) (x1.3) x Final Reckoning (x1.3) = ~10K. Now find another doubling of damage.

While i disagree with a ret nerf (bar bubble nerfs, imo just make it unuseable wthing 30secs of wings again and return the 50% dmg reduction) you forgot a few modifiers.

Trinket proc (+ potentially double trinket if human), kyrian mastery buff, the increased damage to finishers from judgement, seraphim and im sure im still forgetting a few.

[Molov]

how can people still be defending paladins. Prot paladins in pvp are absolutely ridiculous and need a nerf in PVP. if you say otherwise you're either in denial of reality or you play prot paladin yourself. Rets also need a nerf but slightly softer, just not allow them to hit 18k judges while being invincible

[Yayeet]

Reduce their healing in half and they'll be dead. Always fun to MD their bubble so they run around in panic.

[Demsi]

how can people still be defending paladins. Prot paladins in pvp are absolutely ridiculous and need a nerf in PVP. if you say otherwise you're either in denial of reality or you play prot paladin yourself. Rets also need a nerf but slightly softer, just not allow them to hit 18k judges while being invincible

Because contrary to what you think paladins aren't dominating PvP, ret is right at the middle and prot is just a meme

https://www.arenamate.net/?region=&r...r=3v3&faction=

[Rollatorklm]

i find it funny how everyone is complaining about 20k+ verdicts, i have a 216 ret pally with 24% vers, and i only hit that hard on tank classes
so stop playing tank classes in pvp? lol

also, dhs complaining about ret burst, when the hunt is easy 20kish without other cds, up to 30k with good gear even as a tank (watch rextroys vid)

alot of classes are OP atm, nerf protadins i agree, but if wog gets a nerf for ret, it goes from a middle class to garbage again
almost every class in the game can "oneshot" atm if people are potatoes and dont respond to cooldowns (watch savix's new video he shows most classes oneshotting)

also? people are saying rogues are fine after nerf? RMP is stronger than ever, rogue can still global you in a cheapshot, are these people high?
game shouldnt be balanced around 1200 arenas

[Lucetia]

The problem is that the bubble is up all the time, it has minimal CD even after the duel has ended the new one becomes ready and same shit all over again, whereas DH has the biggest DMG spell which is meta and has a 4 min CD or 2 min depends on your choice.

Alright, this sounds like you are misunderstanding things then. Divine Shield lasts for 8 seconds and has a 5 minute cooldown, not "a few minutes". Even if they took the talent Unbreakable Spirit it would only lower it to 3.5 minutes. Though most usually take Cavalier so they have more movement abilities.

Your Metamorphosis has a cooldown of 4 minutes base which already comes ups quicker than Divine Shield does and if the paladin takes the talent then yeah their shield can come up 30 seconds faster. If you take Demonic Origins then yeah it'll be lowered to a 2 minute cooldown which is still faster than Divine Shield in either scenario. Then of course theirs the free Metamorphosis when you cast Eye Beam if you take the Demonic.

So in any of the scenarios Metamorphosis will almost always be up before Divine Shield. Not sure where you are getting that the bubble is up all the time and has a minimal cd when that isn't the case at all.

If anything in this case your meta would be up all the time compared to a paladin's bubble. Also, the above paladin numbers work regardless of being Protection or Retribution.

Just dueled another pally, used netherwalk and shadowmeld to delay the bubble, but it still does not help where you as a DH has shitty healing abilities comparing to a paladin, where he does heal 50% of hp + high damage. You can't compete with that. I am 200 ilvl versa 24% and don't tell me 'git gud', because I am rated above 1800 in any bracket.

I can't say what your ability is or anything, but just because you are X rating doesn't always necessarily mean you are great/amazing as people do get carries (and I'm not saying you did). Just saying quoting your rating doesn't always equate to meaning anything.

With that said, it does show that you don't know as much as you do based on the illustration above where you are claiming bubble is always up and meta isn't when the data there shows meta always coming up before bubble majority of the time.

The numbers don't lie. Paladins tank has higher healing than the healers? I mean wtf I saw in many arena scoreboards and there are issues. As I said number of times. I don't mind the damage, but I mind the self healing. They heal like they were in a healing spec.

"Oh, tanks need selfhealing, because sometimes it can mean you could avoid a raid wipe" Cool, thats fine. But reduce the healing in PVP situations.

This is another thing that can be skewed without knowing all the information in the puzzle. One of the main things is just because there is a healer doesn't mean they are keeping heals up on the paladin 100% of the time. The paladin could be popping Word of Glory on themselves and making it so the healer doesn't need to heal thus giving the healer time to dps, CC or focus on some others.

Protection paladins (rets have access to it too) get a talent called Hand of the Protector where the lower the health of someone the more it heals. I'm almost positive all paladins take this as the other two spells Consecrated Ground and Judgment of Light are extremely lacklust. Though I could see Consecrated Ground having some use in PvP. Protection paladins also have a PvP talent called Judgments of the Pure that heals another ally along with Luminescence that heals ally's whenever they are healed.

So protection paladins can gain passive healing as too which can help make them heal more than a healer in some situations. Without seeing the scenario and seeing all the sources it is hard to gauge, but looking at just a scoreboard tells you probably 20% of the available data as it only says "Person does X damage and Y healing" and nothing else.

[kenn9530]

You just can't compete with the high dmg output and self healing.

10k verdict crits? give me a break

The problem isnt the classes its allowing gear to effect player power against other players, in PvP all should be equal but if your in M0 gear against heroic raiding players you wont really have any chance, you cant really nerf a class atm because noone has the gear to test things out properly.

[Yhcti]

The issue is when it's like double dps and they bubble and 1 shot you inside bubble. They really need to make it so you do less damage during bubble as that seems like a massively overlooked mechanic.

[Atrea]

are you sure you are not just, you know... bad?

99% of the time, complaints like this boil down to something that simple.
People have an unrealistic concept of their own skill.

[Lucetia]

The issue is when it's like double dps and they bubble and 1 shot you inside bubble. They really need to make it so you do less damage during bubble as that seems like a massively overlooked mechanic.

They did that before and reverted it too. So it's not overlooked. They tried it before and didn't like how it played out so they reverted it.

[Aleksej89]

Wow 1v1 and small scale pvp always reminded me of dota/LOL 1 player vs 1 player.
As in it is by far the worst in the format of 1v1.
The less various heroes (and additional players) are involved the trashier and more broken the PVP gets in those games.

If you want to find wow pvp at all stomach-able you might have to go for much bigger scale pvp, like large arena fights or even large battlegrounds.

[Molov]

Because contrary to what you think paladins aren't dominating PvP, ret is right at the middle and prot is just a meme

https://www.arenamate.net/?region=&r...r=3v3&faction=

most likely because R1s, and probably most players, are used to play their favourite class, they prefer to play it, and are better at it than having to learn a whole new class/spec. I like my feral, i won't reroll prot paladin to climb the ladder, even though i know it'd be easier once i've learned the class, because i love my spec. Rets/prot also have less possibilities for comps than warriors, mages or rogues

While this is what happens in reality (yes we won, but we struggled like hell to win against backpeddling mouseclickers who are at 2k rating. I'm clearly not the best, but i don't think we should struggle this much against a mouseclicking tank comp in arena), where we can see the potential of the class:

and yes, we know prot paladins heal more when they are low health

https://imgur.com/a/MVMYci8

[Lucetia]

and yes, we know prot paladins heal more when they are low health

https://imgur.com/a/MVMYci8

The problem with that image is that it tells us nothing except the Paladin healed for 1M. There are many tools a paladin could be using to heal / regen since there are several different sources heals could be coming from.

I would say anything, and definitely not trying to judge you just looking at numbers, it looks like the gold team had more issues going on with the shaman having low damage / healing output compared to what they should unless they were dispatched of pretty quickly. Like I said though, that's just by looking at the image alone and without further source to help illustrate.

[Molov]

The problem with that image is that it tells us nothing except the Paladin healed for 1M. There are many tools a paladin could be using to heal / regen since there are several different sources heals could be coming from.

I would say anything, and definitely not trying to judge you just looking at numbers, it looks like the gold team had more issues going on with the shaman having low damage / healing output compared to what they should unless they were dispatched of pretty quickly. Like I said though, that's just by looking at the image alone and without further source to help illustrate.

the problem is that a tank heals more than a healer by a considerable amount. Even if my healer did twice as much healing, the prot would be competing with him. That's just not normal. and warrior/pal prot don't have that much CC. It's as simple as that. What happened, roughly : tried to kill warrior and CC prot since when he loses health he heals more. Killed the angel. Made war LoS the prot. At some point tried to apply double pressure.

Shaman couldn't deal much yeah since they were tunneling him, + the dps is a warrior btw, and they have several kicks and silences (even blanket), how much should've he done? The game lasted for like 7 minutes, i could convoke 3 or 4 times

Edit : another 10 minutes game where we CC'd the prot half the game, went SP then swapped to Hpal when he was OOM but got regularly LoH'd by the prot (except when he's on horse because he's immune to CC while being able to do everything + bumping lmao) in case you still can't see there is an issue : https://imgur.com/a/LVTJyr1

If you still think it's fine i'm sorry you're either in denial or it's plain bad-faith because you play prot (if you don't, it's even worse that i thought)

Edit 2 : this just in : whaaz losing vs war/prot paladin who have no arena exp but Q at 2k5 rating : https://clips.twitch.tv/RockyMagnificentFungusNononoCat

[Ticj]

The problem isnt the classes its allowing gear to effect player power against other players, in PvP all should be equal but if your in M0 gear against heroic raiding players you wont really have any chance, you cant really nerf a class atm because noone has the gear to test things out properly.

They made all gear equal in legion, which led to the complete collapse of the PvP community. So, how about we don't?

[Your Mommy]

are you sure you are not just, you know... bad?

But Mr. Forum Signature Rank 1, you gotta understand that you can't do much when you go from 100 to 0 in a split second.

[poggers]

The problem isnt the classes its allowing gear to effect player power against other players, in PvP all should be equal but if your in M0 gear against heroic raiding players you wont really have any chance, you cant really nerf a class atm because noone has the gear to test things out properly.

Have you taken a look at gear? Secondary stats are hard nerfed. Anyone can earn 200ilvl conquest gear even if you lose every game.

The difference between 200ilvl and heroic 213 overall is probably 1 extra piece of gear in stats

[Zephire]

Hard no, diverse classes are fun.

And going by the ladder, rets dont need nerfs.

Maybe not nerfs but they can still be very oppressive on low rating which could justify adjustment. I have no idea, don't even find ret op anywhere really.

Maybe it's just the case of the ret using CDs while the opponent does not, not even defensive. Like, just standing there, facetanking everything the ret does. I can imagine that would hurt quite a bit.