Rate Shadowlands

[ashblond]

Personally: 5/10

Pros:
- Covenant. It is a nice idea in a MMORPG, and I praise Blizzard to try new things. It is good flavor and lore for wow, but it can cause balance issue in long term.
- Thread of Fate. It just offer players an optional way to level. More choices are always better.
- Renown Catch-up system. It is clearly an improvement from previous expansions

Cons:
- Same borrowed power system. Anima/Renown = AP, Soulbinds/Conduits = Traits/Essences = Relics. It is the same max level progression system since Legion.
- Same endgame contents (M+/raids/PvP). Legion introduced M+ as a new form for endgame. BFA and SL just remain exactly the same without innovation.
- Maw and Torghast. They are not impressive so far. They feel like the same daily and weekly chore in a even worse form.

Neutrual:
- Zones and Quests. The graphic and music are good as usual.
- Dungeons and Raids. The design and lore are good as usual.

In summary, Legion introduced 2 major new aspects to wow:
- Max level progression / borrowed power system
- Mythic+ dungeons as a new form of endgame.

BFA and SL remain largely the same as Legion without major new things. SL = BFA 2.0 = Legion 3.0

When players did it 1st time in Legion, it was great. When we repeated it again in BFA, it was bad. When we have it 3rd time in a row, it will end worse.

I know it is still too early to rate Shadowlands. But what is your opinion so far?

[hllfrmththrsd]

I don't see Renown as a borrowed power system, I see it as a way of progressing through your Covenant. It is not unlocking only soulbinds but a lot of things in the campaign which makes sense as if you managed to complete all the campaigns in a week, what would you do for the rest of the expansion?

The only downside for me is that Torghast is getting boring and recent nerfs do not help the cause.

[MrLachyG]

Personally: 5/10

Pros:
- Covenant. It is a nice idea in a MMORPG, and I praise Blizzard to try new things. It is good flavor and lore for wow, but it can cause balance issue in long term.
- Thread of Fate. It just offer players an optional way to level. More choices are always better.
- Renown Catch-up system. It is clearly an improvement from previous expansions

Cons:
- Same borrowed power system. Anima/Renown = AP, Soulbinds/Conduits = Traits/Essences = Relics. It is the same max level progression system since Legion.

Anima/Renown are not borrowed power. Anima does not influence anything with regards to power, and while Renown does assist with your Soulbinds it's a stretch to equate it with AP

[Nnyco]

Do you even play the game? if you compare anima to ap my guess the answer is no.

[ashblond]

I don't see Renown as a borrowed power system, I see it as a way of progressing through your Covenant. It is not unlocking only soulbinds but a lot of things in the campaign which makes sense as if you managed to complete all the campaigns in a week, what would you do for the rest of the expansion?

The only downside for me is that Torghast is getting boring and recent nerfs do not help the cause.

The whole covenant system (abilities/soulbinds/conduits, etc.) ofc is a borrowed power system.

Just like Artifact weapon in Legion and Azerite Traits/Essence in BFA, covenant is a 1 expansion feature that will be disabled as soon as the expansion finishes, AKA borrowed power.

[xenogear3]

7 out of 10.

It is designed to avoid grinding.
I wish to require a little more grinding since I have lots of free time.

[ashblond]

Do you even play the game? if you compare anima to ap my guess the answer is no.

anima gives you higher renown level. higher renown unlocks more soulbinds/conduits

AP gives you higher HoA level. higher HoA level unlocks more traits/essences

Exactly the same system, under different names.

[hllfrmththrsd]

yeah but no, Renown unlocks way more things than artefact or azerite did.

[Cosmic Janitor]

6-7 from me. Some good ideas here and there which are hampered by execution. Better than BfA at launch, but I'm nowhere near as engaged as I was back in legion. Definitely better than WoD so far, at least I can pick the nice "home zone" without leaving my entire faction behind, I "just" have to suck a bit more at my chosen role.

[Nayami]

Was more fun pre-Torghast nerf for me </3 Really like that content and hoping for endless levels or an extra-hard mode with cosmetic rewards in the future.

Overall really happy though. The new systems they tried in this expansion feel pretty good (so far), at least in comparison to warfronts on island expeditions. ^^

[Lolites]

anima gives you higher renown level. higher renown unlocks more soulbinds/conduits

AP gives you higher HoA level. higher HoA level unlocks more traits/essences

Exactly the same system, under different names.

sooo he was right you do not play the game at all... or perhaps you do play but are just VERY weak troll
otherwise you wouldnt compare doing one weekly q to farming currency that literaly increase your power...
its like comparing world boss and world quests

[ceall]

anima gives you higher renown level. higher renown unlocks more soulbinds/conduits

AP gives you higher HoA level. higher HoA level unlocks more traits/essences

Exactly the same system, under different names.

Except for the fact that it is not the same system.
Anima itself is in no way needed to increase your player power.

It is just a source for getting renown (by doing the weekly quest, which should rather be compared to those apexis shard weekly quests from wod), which you can ignore completely if you wanted to. You'd be behind exactly 1 renown for the current week until we reach max. But every reset the catch up comes in to let you get renown by other means (callings, dungeons, pvp, etc). You could play the entire expansion never doing anything that is anima-centric (most notably world quests) and still be fine.

Anima is only used for covenant sanctum upgrades, transmog gear and the mission table. It's a currency to be used not an experience-bar to be filled.

In legion and bfa you had to focus on getting as much AP/azerite as possible in order to not fall behind dramatically.

[ashblond]

Except for the fact that it is not the same system.
Anima itself is in no way needed to increase your player power.

It is just a source for getting renown, which you can ignore completely if you wanted to. You'd be behind exactly 1 renown for the current week until we reach max. But every reset the catch up comes in to let you get renown by other means (callings, dungeons, pvp, etc). You could play the entire expansion never doing anything that is anima-centric (most notably world quests) and still be fine.

Anima is only used for covenant sanctum upgrades, transmog gear and the mission table. It's a currency to be used not an experience-bar to be filled.

In legion and bfa you had to focus on getting as much AP/azerite as possible in order to not fall behind dramatically.

AP (azerite power) itself doesn't increase your player power, it is just a ressource to get HoA level.

Higher HoA unlocks more Azerite traits and essence slot, which increases your power.

In BFA, I never intentionally farmed AP by doing all AP world quests, weekly islands or AP emissaries, just like right now in SL, I don't intentionally farm anima to finish the weekly 1K anima quests. They just come naturally by doing the contents you prefer.

Players that complain AP was endless farming just chose to do so themselves, when they didn't need to.

[Toybox]

I'd give it a solid 8/10 so far, with it being one of my favourite expansion launches in recent memory. It's not without its flaws, though, and those flaws stop it from hitting that excellent bracket for me.

Positives: Alt friendliness, leveling experience/variance, power progression requirements, Castle Nathria, new dungeons, art.
Negatives: AoE cap is still bullshit & feels horrible in practice. The Maw isn't threatening, only tedious. Being locked out of several cool abilities is still a bummer - I'd much rather have had a new talent row.

I'm enjoying it a lot.

[swatsonqt]

2/10

1. We play keys the entire time but just dont get more loot. We are too bad to do higher keys without the loot so we are now stuck. there is no progression in sight other than waiting weeks for my vault to help me out

2. torghast ( even after the nerf) just takes to long to enjoy. you rather play everything safe because you dont want the run to be useless so no masspulls or fun stuff like that. it just takes forever and is exhausting

3. there is not really that much to do in a single id. most weeks my "main" has been finished wednesday evening ( EU) and then there is nothing left to make progress on (see 1.) which is nice for alts but i don't get the feeling that i can get better even if i spent hours upon hours in the game

4. Maw just needs something to get around quicker and it would be ok. Never going to be good, really dont undertand why we have the zone to begin withbut if the running problem is so hard that 90% of my friends just stopped going there because its so awful

5. Raiding is too hard. There i said it. We just can't get any gear to get better so every "basic activity ( raid, m+)" feels frustrating. It's just a feeling of "sure i can play 10 times better but playing better is not what gets us futher because we are hamstring by our ilvl". And tbh having to progress on nhc is just stupid. that is the game mode for idiots. we're playing for years now. for 2 expansions we had a cutting edge guild (thank you college) and after that we could casually do at least hc and the easy mythic bosses. nobody wants to struggle on nhc ffs

in conclusion: in our community

[Paula Deen]

AP (azerite power) itself doesn't increase your player power,

it is just a ressource to get HoA level.

So... it increases your player power

[tru]

I mean they still dropping the ball on class design and balance.
Lore is pretty good
Dungeons are fun
Raid is ok what ive got to do
Covenants are... ok wish they were balanced better. It taking so long to unlock a full row on the conduit or whatever and its still nothing game breaking and some are nearly useless.

Id give it 5/10 Booby Kocktit's salary

[ashblond]

So... it increases your player power

Yes, in the same way Anima increases player power.

Anima increases renown level, which unlock more soulbinds and conduits that increase player power.

[Stricks]

How can the lore and design of dungeons and raids be good as usual and fall in your "Neutrual" category?

[holywhiskers]

Yes, in the same way Anima increases player power.

Anima increases renown level, which unlock more soulbinds and conduits that increase player power.

Anima has nothing to do with Renown. I have done 20 WQ tops this expansion and am 15 renown. Anima is not tied to player power in any way outside the 1000 weekly for 1 point of Renown which you can complete in a day without ever doing a WQ for "Anima grinding"

The only things needed for player power are Renown and Soul Ash and if you're a 1%er then Stygia/Venari rep for sockets. Anima and Reputations are -purely- cosmetic/covenant functionality driven.