The problem with the Horde.

[Grazrug]

Let me be Frank. The Horde has been in a depleted state ever since Siege of Orgrimmar. We are losing our lore characters. We lost Tirisfal and the Undercity. We get no lore representation in neutral plot. The Alliance scum dabs on us in every faction war story. See Rastakhan and the golden fleet. And Blizzard gave the bloodelf model to the alliance. All these have been heavy hits to the Horde. But the worst was with the new council being installed as our new goverment. This new central goverment that was forced on us without asking. Are a bunch of weak, spineless leftover characters which were the mere survivors of the purge Blizzard put our leading characters cast through. We lost big names like Vol’jin, Sylvanas and Gallywix. What we got instead are alliance loving cowards who always put the wellbeing of the alliance above all else. This is shameful and can not stand idle. What we need is drastical change. We will start this change by eleminating all the weak peaceknicks and replace them with the following characters.

Orcs: All the AU warlords
Trolls: Jindo the Godbreaker
Tauren: Magatha Grimtotem.
Blood elves: Kael’thas
Goblins: Gallywix
Undead: Sylvanas
Pandaren: Chen Stormstout
Nightborne: Grand Magistrix Elisande
Zandalari: Rastakhan
Maghar: Same as Orcs
Highmountain Tauren: Underking Drargul.

Next in line we change the value of power. Each council member will be given a share of power. Think of as is as a ministry system. There will be head of the spies. A head of the army. A head of the economy. A head for magic research and a head of diplomacy. And so forth. You get the idea. It is very much alike to the dark council of the Sith Empire in Swtor.

Afterwards we build a new capital city. Orgrimmar is too ugly and too small. We need a proper capital city just as prosperous and big as Stormwind is. A place where all cultures of the Horde find their place. With a central fortress that doesent fit just infront of the main gate where the target would be too easy to pick on. Kalimdor is big. This new capital could be everywhere. Dustwallow marshes, Barrens, Feralas. I will go with Feralas here cause its a lush place with many resources.

Then when that is done we pick on the last thing. The name of the faction. With the Greenskins no longer dominating it we change it from Horde to the Coalition. Much more fitting for literally the most diverse group of races banding together like no other on Azeroth.

And this would be my way of how to fix the Horde. Feel free to leave your thoughts on this.

[Super Dickmann]

Then when that is done we pick on the last thing. The name of the faction. With the Greenskins no longer dominating it we change it from Horde to the Coalition. Much more fitting for literally the most diverse group of races banding together like no other on Azeroth.

Blood elves truly were a mistake. Garithos was right but he didn't go far enough.

[MrLachyG]

didn't we see a similar thread like this a while back? I dunno everything seems to blur after a while. However there is one big issue with your list (and this was the same for the other thread) is that most of those people are dead or gone. AU Warlords, Jindo, Kael, Elisande, Rastakhan - dead. Gallywix is gone who knows where, Sylvanas is probably going to be dead by the end of the expansion, Magatha Grimtotem will be the Tauren leader over a lot of dead Tauren bodies and Underking Dragul is not only not a Highmountain Tauren but is also dead.

that leaves us with Chen (I don't see how he would be better than Ji Firepaw) and as for the Mag'har well they have Overlord Geya'rah who is the daughter of one of the last Warlords from AU Draenor (again I don't see any better choice)

[Grazrug]

didn't we see a similar thread like this a while back? I dunno everything seems to blur after a while. However there is one big issue with your list (and this was the same for the other thread) is that most of those people are dead or gone. AU Warlords, Jindo, Kael, Elisande, Rastakhan - dead. Gallywix is gone who knows where, Sylvanas is probably going to be dead by the end of the expansion, Magatha Grimtotem will be the Tauren leader over a lot of dead Tauren bodies and Underking Dragul is not only not a Highmountain Tauren but is also dead.

that leaves us with Chen (I don't see how he would be better than Ji Firepaw) and as for the Mag'har well they have Overlord Geya'rah who is the daughter of one of the last Warlords from AU Draenor (again I don't see any better choice)

Chen is the og Pandaren Hero. The AU warlords are also the og Orc heroes. What we currently have are just alliance appeasing traitors who don't care about the Horde like Baine and Thrall. And nobodies like Kiro and Rokhan. My fixed Horde can face the alliance legends heads on.

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Your "fix" would ruin the Horde

Most Horde don't actually like being evil, its just a fringe group of folks that make the rest look absurd.

The alliance is my enemy and i will never accept that peace treaty.

[Villager720]

Your solution to ‘fixing’ the Horde is to resurrect the dead, abandon its seat of power, and rename the Horde.

Alrighty.

[Thage]

How many times are you going to repost this thread? Every time you bring this up, we have to go through the same song and dance. I'm beginning to think my quip about the definition of insanity (trying the same exact thing over and over and expecting different results every time) was more on-point than I planned.

[MrLachyG]

Chen is the og Pandaren Hero. The AU warlords are also the og Orc heroes. What we currently have are just alliance appeasing traitors who don't care about the Horde like Baine and Thrall. And nobodies like Kiro and Rokhan. My fixed Horde can face the alliance legends heads on.

Chen is definitely the OG Pandaren Hero, no argument there but the question is would he side with the Horde or would he remain neutral? and you're still ignoring the fact that the AU Warlords are all dead, except maybe Grommash who if he isn't dead has been converted and is now a part of the Lightbound

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How many times are you going to repost this thread? Every time you bring this up, we have to go through the same song and dance. I'm beginning to think my quip about the definition of insanity (trying the same exact thing over and over and expecting different results every time) was more on-point than I planned.

holy shit I knew I had read a similar thread recently. didn't know it was by the OP. OP you need to get a new fixation; you keep posting the same thing over and over and over again

[StationaryHawk]

Chen is the og Pandaren Hero. The AU warlords are also the og Orc heroes. What we currently have are just alliance appeasing traitors who don't care about the Horde like Baine and Thrall. And nobodies like Kiro and Rokhan. My fixed Horde can face the alliance legends heads on.

How suitable they'd be doesn't address the fact that half of your list is dead.

The alliance is my enemy and i will never accept that peace treaty.

Give the RP a rest.

[Thage]

Most Horde don't actually like being evil, its just a fringe group of folks that make the rest look absurd.

Additionally, most of these characters would not work within the context of the Horde as a coalition working to make the world better while opposing Alliance intrusions/aggression.

Magatha, Jin'do, Elisande, and the AU Warlords were all racial supremacists. The Warlords engaged in an active campaign of genocide, enslaving any race they found useful. Jin'do wanted to resurrect a Loa best known for spreading death and destruction. Elisande sold out to the Burning Legion for power, and was running a fascist dictatorship beforehand where even basic access to arcwine was strictly regulated, with anyone who stepped 'out of line' left to deteriorate into madness and eventual mindless hunger. Magatha cared only about getting what she wanted and happily slaughtered a large potion of Thunder Bluff's standing military in their sleep just on the off chance they wouldn't support her coup, why do people think she would have any business as a leader never mind part of a multiracial coalition?

Oh, and while we're at it, we abandon everything that makes the Horde, the Horde. Instead we come up with a faction name that is somehow even less inspirational and original than the Alliance, we abandon Orgrimmar instead of put actual effort into making Durotar sustainable (because, of course, just abandoning things they're responsible for fucking up seems to be the orcs' MO, hurhurhur lowhanging fruit joke), and hey, while we're at it, we have some random asshole drogbar who isn't even a Highmountain tauren lead the Highmountain tauren!

[MrLachyG]

How suitable they'd be doesn't address the fact that half of your list is dead.

checking his previous started threads he does seem to be obsessed with adding dead/irrelevant people to his list. even wanted Sark Ragetotem to take over the Tauren faction in an old thread

[Squigglyo]

Sounds like someones lookin to have their capital raided and leader killed again.

[LordVargK]

Go for it. But remember: Draenor is falling apart, so better invest in spaceflight research to find another planet once the Alliance beats your ass once again (since you want to exile like 80% of the current Horde, like the genius garrosh did) and drives you back to the dark portal.

Maybe your buddy Mannoroth will aid you. Oh wait. He's dead. Yeah, bummer.

[Grazrug]

Additionally, most of these characters would not work within the context of the Horde as a coalition working to make the world better while opposing Alliance intrusions/aggression.

Magatha, Jin'do, Elisande, and the AU Warlords were all racial supremacists. The Warlords engaged in an active campaign of genocide, enslaving any race they found useful. Jin'do wanted to resurrect a Loa best known for spreading death and destruction. Elisande sold out to the Burning Legion for power, and was running a fascist dictatorship beforehand where even basic access to arcwine was strictly regulated, with anyone who stepped 'out of line' left to deteriorate into madness and eventual mindless hunger. Magatha cared only about getting what she wanted and happily slaughtered a large potion of Thunder Bluff's standing military in their sleep just on the off chance they wouldn't support her coup, why do people think she would have any business as a leader never mind part of a multiracial coalition?

Oh, and while we're at it, we abandon everything that makes the Horde, the Horde. Instead we come up with a faction name that is somehow even less inspirational and original than the Alliance, we abandon Orgrimmar instead of put actual effort into making Durotar sustainable (because, of course, just abandoning things they're responsible for fucking up seems to be the orcs' MO, hurhurhur lowhanging fruit joke), and hey, while we're at it, we have some random asshole drogbar who isn't even a Highmountain tauren lead the Highmountain tauren!

The current Horde and its races where robbed of their original heroes and leaders. In the meantime the ranks of the alliance keep growing with legends of the past like Allleria and Turalyon or godlike beings in the case of Tyrande. The Horde is bare bones in direct comparison to the alliance. My solution can fix this. Also in my opinion the cataclysm Horde was the best Horde. It has been bleeding out ever since SoO.

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checking his previous started threads he does seem to be obsessed with adding dead/irrelevant people to his list. even wanted Sark Ragetotem to take over the Tauren faction in an old thread

I would do anything to get rid of Baine and Thrall.

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Sounds like someones lookin to have their capital raided and leader killed again.

You can't raid us If we manage to equal the power level.

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Go for it. But remember: Draenor is falling apart, so better invest in spaceflight research to find another planet once the Alliance beats your ass once again (since you want to exile like 80% of the current Horde, like the genius garrosh did) and drives you back to the dark portal.

Maybe your buddy Mannoroth will aid you. Oh wait. He's dead. Yeah, bummer.

We would have defeated the alliance by now If traitors would not throw a rebellion every time.

[LordVargK]

The current Horde and its races where robbed of their original heroes and leaders. In the meantime the ranks of the alliance keep growing with legends of the past like Allleria and Turalyon or godlike beings in the case of Tyrande. The Horde is bare bones in direct comparison to the alliance. My solution can fix this. Also in my opinion the cataclysm Horde was the best Horde. It has been bleeding out ever since SoO.

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I would do anything to get rid of Baine and Thrall.

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You can't raid us If we manage to equal the power level.

The OG leader of the WoW Horde is Thrall. And who is the most peaceful Orc in existence? Yeah, coincidentally also the smartest one.

[Grazrug]

How suitable they'd be doesn't address the fact that half of your list is dead.

Give the RP a rest.

We brought back dead characters before. This is a non issue.

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The OG leader of the WoW Horde is Thrall. And who is the most peaceful Orc in existence? Yeah, coincidentally also the smartest one.

He is the traitor to Orc kind. The og Warlords of the old Horde are the true face of that race.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

Isn't this a copypasta you got from someone on the offical WoW forums? He literally posts the same thing multiple times a day just to spam.

[Thage]

The current Horde and its races where robbed of their original heroes and leaders. In the meantime the ranks of the alliance keep growing with legends of the past like Allleria and Turalyon or godlike beings in the case of Tyrande. The Horde is bare bones in direct comparison to the alliance. My solution can fix this. Also in my opinion the cataclysm Horde was the best Horde. It has been bleeding out ever since SoO.

These are two separate problems you're kludging together to come up with a wishlist that sounds like you haven't been paying attention since Warcraft 3, never mind the story developments over WoW's lifetime and how 'villainous turns' inevitably end up with the Horde even more depopulated since, by definition, no decisive victories can ever happen between the factions within WoW's lifetime (and thus, Horde campaigns with the stated intent of wiping the Alliance out invariably lead to Horde losses).

You know how to fix things? Bring in new heroes, allow them to grow, to build their own legends. Constantly clinging to the past in an attempt to recapture glory days has, in and out of universe, been the single biggest problem with both the Alilance and the Horde. When's the last time someone introduced after Warcraft 3 ascended to be a character of actual importance to the plot? Off the top of my head we have... Bolvar, Anduin, Baine, and Saurfang. Please excuse me while I play my kazoo in excitement.

But your 'fix' would, once again, cast aside the potential for new characters to flourish just so you can keep reliving your childhood by stretching childhood heroes thinner than they already are. That's not a fix, that's desperate nostalgia.

[kail]

We brought back dead characters before. This is a non issue.

Bringing dead characters back was an issue.

[loras]

Let me be Frank. The Horde has been in a depleted state ever since Siege of Orgrimmar. We are losing our lore characters. We lost Tirisfal and the Undercity. We get no lore representation in neutral plot. The Alliance scum dabs on us in every faction war story. See Rastakhan and the golden fleet. And Blizzard gave the bloodelf model to the alliance. All these have been heavy hits to the Horde. But the worst was with the new council being installed as our new goverment. This new central goverment that was forced on us without asking. Are a bunch of weak, spineless leftover characters which were the mere survivors of the purge Blizzard put our leading characters cast through. We lost big names like Vol’jin, Sylvanas and Gallywix. What we got instead are alliance loving cowards who always put the wellbeing of the alliance above all else. This is shameful and can not stand idle. What we need is drastical change. We will start this change by eleminating all the weak peaceknicks and replace them with the following characters.

Orcs: All the AU warlords
Trolls: Jindo the Godbreaker
Tauren: Magatha Grimtotem.
Blood elves: Kael’thas
Goblins: Gallywix
Undead: Sylvanas
Pandaren: Chen Stormstout
Nightborne: Grand Magistrix Elisande
Zandalari: Rastakhan
Maghar: Same as Orcs
Highmountain Tauren: Underking Drargul.

Next in line we change the value of power. Each council member will be given a share of power. Think of as is as a ministry system. There will be head of the spies. A head of the army. A head of the economy. A head for magic research and a head of diplomacy. And so forth. You get the idea. It is very much alike to the dark council of the Sith Empire in Swtor.

Afterwards we build a new capital city. Orgrimmar is too ugly and too small. We need a proper capital city just as prosperous and big as Stormwind is. A place where all cultures of the Horde find their place. With a central fortress that doesent fit just infront of the main gate where the target would be too easy to pick on. Kalimdor is big. This new capital could be everywhere. Dustwallow marshes, Barrens, Feralas. I will go with Feralas here cause its a lush place with many resources.

Then when that is done we pick on the last thing. The name of the faction. With the Greenskins no longer dominating it we change it from Horde to the Coalition. Much more fitting for literally the most diverse group of races banding together like no other on Azeroth.

And this would be my way of how to fix the Horde. Feel free to leave your thoughts on this.

Hey Frank, the Horde's main issue is the suicidally bloodthirsty dogs you try to pass off as interesting characters and then wondering why the world makes it a priority to get rid of them.

The Horde getting the council is just about the only thing that can save it from the idiocy that has plagued it for the past situation, given that centralizing powers into the hands of characters hailing from the ranks of the corruption-vulnerable has had rather predictable effects. A council is a lot less vulnerable to that sort of stuff.

Also i hope you notice how ironic it is that you complain of "not being asked" when it concerns a shift in a nondemocratic monarchic system (warchiefs were de facto just red kings) to a nondemocratic pluriform federal system; neither system contains provisions that allow it to care about the opinions of its subjects.

So yeah: i have a lot more faith in Blizzard's attempt to salvage the Horde than in yours, especially as it consists mostly of edgy and notably dead characters that were in many cases rather countereffective to their own goals.
Also frankly it sounds like you just want a monstrous red Alliance, rather than the Horde. WoW already has enough homogenization, better to let the horde remain the horde rather than putting a crown on the dogs and pretending it is better.

[Grazrug]

These are two separate problems you're kludging together to come up with a wishlist that sounds like you haven't been paying attention since Warcraft 3, never mind the story developments over WoW's lifetime and how 'villainous turns' inevitably end up with the Horde even more depopulated since, by definition, no decisive victories can ever happen between the factions within WoW's lifetime (and thus, Horde campaigns with the stated intent of wiping the Alliance out invariably lead to Horde losses).

You know how to fix things? Bring in new heroes, allow them to grow, to build their own legends. Constantly clinging to the past in an attempt to recapture glory days has, in and out of universe, been the single biggest problem with both the Alilance and the Horde. When's the last time someone introduced after Warcraft 3 ascended to be a character of actual importance to the plot? Off the top of my head we have... Bolvar, Anduin, Baine, and Saurfang. Please excuse me while I play my kazoo in excitement.

But your 'fix' would, once again, cast aside the potential for new characters to flourish just so you can keep reliving your childhood by stretching childhood heroes thinner than they already are. That's not a fix, that's desperate nostalgia.

The Horde losses can be fixed. Just reverse the decisions and call it a day. Who we need back are.

Kilrogg
Kargath
Grommash
Ner'zhul
Fenris
Tagar
Kael'thas
Vol'jin
Rastakhan
Magatha

Also only the Horde lost their past Legends. The Alliance is doing just fine and did not lose anything. This is clear bias. My solution can fix this problem.

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Hey Frank, the Horde's main issue is the suicidally bloodthirsty dogs you try to pass off as interesting characters and then wondering why the world makes it a priority to get rid of them.

The Horde getting the council is just about the only thing that can save it from the idiocy that has plagued it for the past situation, given that centralizing powers into the hands of characters hailing from the ranks of the corruption-vulnerable has had rather predictable effects. A council is a lot less vulnerable to that sort of stuff.

Also i hope you notice how ironic it is that you complain of "not being asked" when it concerns a shift in a nondemocratic monarchic system (warchiefs were de facto just red kings) to a nondemocratic pluriform federal system; neither system contains provisions that allow it to care about the opinions of its subjects.

So yeah: i have a lot more faith in Blizzard's attempt to salvage the Horde than in yours, especially as it consists mostly of edgy and notably dead characters that were in many cases rather countereffective to their own goals.
Also frankly it sounds like you just want a monstrous red Alliance, rather than the Horde. WoW already has enough homogenization, better to let the horde remain the horde rather than putting a crown on the dogs and pretending it is better.

Blizzard is alliance biased. They can't fix anything.