[FILM] Wonder Woman 84

[RobertoCarlos]

See first post I wrote about Diana not really having a functioning moral compass.

That's not contradicting the mythology that is called conflict. You know the stuff all stories need. If Diana was already perfect why would we need to see her journey in the first place. Anytime batman goes overboard with a criminal is that contradicting his mythology? Or is it just showing he's having a bad day / getting restless

[Tonkaden]

That's my biggest problem with the movie. It was very tropee. Like the guys robbing the mall that try throw a kid off a balcony because "I'm not going back there!" it was very formulaic and all been done before and felt like a Saturday morning cartoon

At the end of the day, isn't that how it should feel? Its based on comics which are cartoon novels.

[RobertoCarlos]

At the end of the day, isn't that how it should feel? Its based on comics which are cartoon novels.

Normally yeah but only if you go all out with it. Like if they did a flash point paradox and we got gun wielding batman and WW as a villain trying to take over the world. Sign me up! But these 200 million dollar films want the best of both worlds where they burrow superhero tropes/storylines but dont commit to them fully/in a fun way and try make them gritty and realistic. While jumping around from lighting to lighting bolt. Its like pick a lane already!

[IIamaKing]

Well....that was 2.5 hours I could have back....well not all of em. Id watch a super cut of all of Pascals Scenes, him hamming it up was a BLAST!

[Shadowferal]

Wonder Woman 1984' sets pandemic record

The holiday season is normally a big one at the box office - but, of course, this isn’t a normal time. Still, “Wonder Woman 1984” managed to set a record for a “post-pandemic” domestic feature film on opening weekend, Warner Bros. said, pulling in $16.7 million domestically.

Wonder Woman 1984 broke records and exceeded our expectations across all of our key viewing and subscriber metrics in its first 24 hours on the service, and the interest and momentum we’re seeing indicates this will likely continue well beyond the weekend,” said Andy Forssell, executive vice president and general manager of WarnerMedia’s Direct-to-Consumer department, said in a statement.

[Ihavewaffles]

1st post, this is the film we all wanted to see...god I hate it when the trailers are awesome n movies turn into shit...

[Svifnymr]

Well...it was just one guy...and not legions...and that seemed more likely late at night.

Yeah, I never said legions or anything. The other gawking and offhand comments with men vs Cheetah & WW were nothing exceptionally outstanding to me. But that guy felt odd, because it went from rude comment to physical assault quickly with little provocation and put her into a situation of weakness where she could easily have gotten away long before being in danger. It just felt odd and clunky and forced to me.

The little girl thing seemed more aligned with how WW would think because of how she was raised.

I labeled it "pandering" because I think they just wanted to throw little girls in there to try to appeal to a little girl audience rather than keeping to the setting of the movie. So in the middle of a robbery thing, little girls just walk out to be saved and get empowerment speeches. Sure, whatever. Not a horrible thing, but certainly not a natural flow to the movie.

[Prinky Doodsie]

watched it last weekend and I was disappointed. It was slow and the story was lame.

[Mihalik]

That's not contradicting the mythology that is called conflict. You know the stuff all stories need. If Diana was already perfect why would we need to see her journey in the first place. Anytime batman goes overboard with a criminal is that contradicting his mythology? Or is it just showing he's having a bad day / getting restless

You are missing the point again.

The problem is that she isn't conflicted about technically wiping an innocent bystander out of existence. She's conflicted about losing her power for it.

It's the wrong conflict for the character.

Diana isn't a goody two shoes like Superman, nor does she have a no kill code like Batman, but she was clearly set up both in the comics and in the DCEU movies as someone who is 100% not okay with killing bystanders. Especially not to satisfy her own personal desires.

But that's basically what she does in this movie. And she's never conflicted about it.

They wrote a conflict for the character that actually creates a moral conflict that the established character would 100% not be okay with and never attempt to address it.

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So I take it her comic book origins aren't relevant? Because Steve Trevor was a major influence in the comics.

Huh?

Ya missing the point.

I never said Trevor wasn't/isn't important. I'm saying that technically Diana killed a random innocent dude to get her boyfriend back.

And this is never addressed.

There's one line, after they had sex, when Diana says they should find out how he came back in the body of another man.

But there are no questions about what happened to the original owner of the body. Does he have family? His friends? What happened to him? Did he deserve to simply stop existing? Should he get his body back? Is he dead? Was he dead before Trevor got his body?

Questions that someone with a functioning moral compass might ask. Especially if that person goes around saving innocents from evil doers as a hobby.

Imagine Diana walked up to a random person and ripped a lung/kidney out of their body without their permission to save someone she cares about.

That isn't just illegal and reprehensible, but straight up villain shit.

But she basically did that with someone's entire body/life, and she never even blinks about it.

[aarro]

Definatley wouldn't recommend.

[Darththeo]

Diana isn't a goody two shoes like Superman, nor does she have a no kill code like Batman, but she was clearly set up both in the comics and in the DCEU movies as someone who is 100% not okay with killing bystanders. Especially not to satisfy her own personal desires.

Batman doesn't have a no kill code all the time. There are plenty of times where Batman kills, however, he does often.
Superman isn't always a goody two shoes.

Both the characters you listed have in comics deviated from the norm you assign them. Even in movies, they deviate from it.

So why shouldn't Wonder Woman?

[Fencers]

It was okay. Not horrible but not remarkable either. It should have always been a "streaming movie".

[Ihavewaffles]

Am I the ony one who didn't care for the first movie either?

Didn't like 1st movie also..dunno why, felt like female capt. america, maybe ww1 bores me

I was hoping this 2nd movie would be like Thor 3, or Bumblebee was to transformers, a movie that improved the franchise..

Like, it was so trope-y how she fell in love with literally the first dude she ever meets, and then uproots her whole life to go with him and save him and so on, and so forth.

And then in this movie it's 70 years later and she's still not over the dude?

Is this supposed to be what a "well-written female character" is supposed to look like? Cause I heard that so much in re: the first movie, especially in reference to Captain Marvel. Frankly, give me Captain Marvel....and I'm a DC guy, not a Marvel guy.

Well, it was her first crush, all this 'noise' around the movie, is just cuz she's a woman n people put 'female empowerment' stamp on it, when it's just a movie..I don't mind ww having weaknesses, just the writing is bad..

I wish they would hand ww3 over to someone else, like Taika Waititi to direct, but he decided to do some star wars movie, like, is he bored or something?...

[minteK917]

Batman doesn't have a no kill code all the time. There are plenty of times where Batman kills, however, he does often.
Superman isn't always a goody two shoes.

Both the characters you listed have in comics deviated from the norm you assign them. Even in movies, they deviate from it.

So why shouldn't Wonder Woman?

Because at some point its kinda too much or dumb. This is different then say wonder women killing a criminal. This is also something they could have literally not done. It serves no purpose, everyone is granted one wish, a real wish. Theres no reason her wish would take over someones body. It also only takes one thing from you. For some reason for wonder women it does two bad things, but also make one thing just gradual for convenience sake... It sounds like you are argueing as someone that did not see the movie. Chris pine face in the movie is for the audience only. Everyone else sees that other person from her building. So her wish literally takes over this guy life, she knows it. Its never addressed, she has sex with him, etc. The biggest morale dilema she had wasent omg im slowly losing my power because i wished for my dead 1 week boy friend back. ITS OMG MY DEAD BOY FRIEND TOOK OVER THE BODY OF THIS FUCKING GUY THAT LIVES NEAR ME. Does he have a family? Whats going on with his job? Mabye i need to find a way to undo my fucking wish to give this person his body back? Even the ending is fucking stupid about it, its literally just wink, we had sex but you dont remember... yes congrats you had sex with this guy body while you put his entire life on pause for one week. Why was this needed for the plot if it amounts to nothing. The wish is fucking magic, Steve can come back in his normal body, its fucking magic whishes ffs.

No im not gona go insane like twitter and call it rape and stuff. But obviously in a smarter story this is a much bigger moral dilema then "OH NO, Im slowly losing my own powers". You taken someone else body over ffs. This is evil fucking magic shit in any other story. If you can amount this stupid plot point to batman shooting down serial killers sure, except its not consistent in this story where Wonder Women is not played as a villain at all. Like i said if they did not want to address such big moral dilema, they had an easy way out. They did not need to make Steve someone else. Hes been dead since WW1, nobody gona fucking recognize him on the street. Maxwell grants LITERAL WISHES.

[Darththeo]

Because at some point its kinda too much or dumb. This is different then say wonder women killing a criminal. This is also something they could have literally not done. It serves no purpose, everyone is granted one wish, a real wish. Theres no reason her wish would take over someones body. It also only takes one thing from you. For some reason for wonder women it does two bad things, but also make one thing just gradual for convenience sake... It sounds like you are argueing as someone that did not see the movie. Chris pine face in the movie is for the audience only. Everyone else sees that other person from her building. So her wish literally takes over this guy life, she knows it. Its never addressed, she has sex with him, etc. The biggest morale dilema she had wasent omg im slowly losing my power because i wished for my dead 1 week boy friend back. ITS OMG MY DEAD BOY FRIEND TOOK OVER THE BODY OF THIS FUCKING GUY THAT LIVES NEAR ME. Does he have a family? Whats going on with his job? Mabye i need to find a way to undo my fucking wish to give this person his body back? Even the ending is fucking stupid about it, its literally just wink, we had sex but you dont remember... yes congrats you had sex with this guy body while you put his entire life on pause for one week. Why was this needed for the plot if it amounts to nothing. The wish is fucking magic, Steve can come back in his normal body, its fucking magic whishes ffs.

No im not gona go insane like twitter and call it rape and stuff. But obviously in a smarter story this is a much bigger moral dilema then "OH NO, Im slowly losing my own powers". You taken someone else body over ffs. This is evil fucking magic shit in any other story.

Honestly, I think they meant to have a scene that the wishes don't create anything or something. It would make sense if that was the case, but they do a terrible job of explaining anything.

[Mihalik]

No im not gona go insane like twitter and call it rape and stuff. But obviously in a smarter story this is a much bigger moral dilema then "OH NO, Im slowly losing my own powers". You taken someone else body over ffs. This is evil fucking magic shit in any other story.

It's the point I am trying to make, and clearly a lot of other people noticed, but some people just adamantly refuse to acknowledge it.

It's just bad writing. With like 4 or 5 small tweaks, this entire thing wouldn't have been an issue at all, a huge number of plot holes would be instantly closed and there would have been an actual, real, very serious conflict that Diana would have had to deal with.

There was no reason to write it the way it was written.

I actually have a feeling, that this movie got very heavily re-cut for some reason, where a lot of the set up's and pay offs were cut, which would sort of explain what the fuck happened with the script.

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Honestly, I think they meant to have a scene that the wishes don't create anything or something. It would make sense if that was the case, but they do a terrible job of explaining anything.

That could have been the case as well, but it's not that they did a bad job at explaining anything, it's that they just didn't. And not in a sense of -We'll let the audience figure it out, but in a "this is all over the place and we're just winging".

[minteK917]

Honestly, I think they meant to have a scene that the wishes don't create anything or something. It would make sense if that was the case, but they do a terrible job of explaining anything.

But it does create things for other people. Like i said before its very poorly written we can agree on that. Like i think Jenkins shown she is a good director, but not a writter. At least not one with chops big enough to make story that usally involve complexity like wish granting or time travel. These are just hard as fuck to pull off for everyone. The writting here took too huge a bite, on paper it sounds like a cool idea dont get me wrong, but they simply did not accomplish their idea in the writting. They needed to setup the stone rules better, they needed a set of rules that limit the stone but still made it possible to degenerate into chaos too. Like i said i get this kind of story is hard as fuck to write, which is why mabye if you cant, you should not.

Theres just to many stuff thats like a bit too much here. Like if you need a guide to explain your movie, outside of your movie. Might need to change your story a bit. Like im forgiving as fuck with movies, i watch garbage anime, etc. But i dont shy away for telling exactly what is shit even with what i enjoy. I did still love Gadot as WW, Always loved Chris Pine even in terrible movies. Plus i thought Pascale was entertaining as fuck, but it just hurts that all these great elements are in such a bad script lol. I even like the premise of the story, it could have been such a smart movie. Instead it was just a not very good story.

[oplawlz]

I actually have a feeling, that this movie got very heavily re-cut for some reason, where a lot of the set up's and pay offs were cut, which would sort of explain what the fuck happened with the script.

Wouldn't surprise me, apparently that's how we got the terrible ending of the first ww movie.

[Darththeo]

But it does create things for other people. Like i said before its very poorly written we can agree on that. Like i think Jenkins shown she is a good director, but not a writter. At least not one with chops big enough to make story that usally involve complexity like wish granting or time travel. These are just hard as fuck to pull off for everyone. The writting here took too huge a bite, on paper it sounds like a cool idea dont get me wrong, but they simply did not accomplish their idea in the writting. They needed to setup the stone rules better, they needed a set of rules that limit the stone but still made it possible to degenerate into chaos too. Like i said i get this kind of story is hard as fuck to write, which is why mabye if you cant, you should not.

Theres just to many stuff thats like a bit too much here. Like if you need a guide to explain your movie, outside of your movie. Might need to change your story a bit. Like im forgiving as fuck with movies, i watch garbage anime, etc. But i dont shy away for telling exactly what is shit even with what i enjoy. I did still love Gadot as WW, Always loved Chris Pine even in terrible movies. Plus i thought Pascale was entertaining as fuck, but it just hurts that all these great elements are in such a bad script lol. I even like the premise of the story, it could have been such a smart movie. Instead it was just a not very good story.

It is weird to have a story where the central plot item is explained poorly. You either don't explain it at all or you present the rules.

There is really no in between that works. We never get the rules of the stone besides it takes something from you to grant you your wish, but it is never determined how that was determined except by Max when he was stone as he chose what he wanted to take. But, the stone before Max became it wasn't sentient. And in Max's and Barbara's case what it took related to the wish in some context. Barbara wished to be someone else, so they took her warm personality (so it took what she was to make her like someone else). Max wished to be the stone to get what he wanted to give his son the best life and wishing to be the stone was going to cost him his son in the end.

But, Diana's cost losing her powers to get Steve back ... where is the connection? If the stone takes something random, why do two of the wishes appear to be non-random (the pre-Max wishes).

Honestly, next to time travel ... having something that grants wishes is the next easiest story to mess up.

[cubby]

It's the point I am trying to make, and clearly a lot of other people noticed, but some people just adamantly refuse to acknowledge it.

It's just bad writing. With like 4 or 5 small tweaks, this entire thing wouldn't have been an issue at all, a huge number of plot holes would be instantly closed and there would have been an actual, real, very serious conflict that Diana would have had to deal with.

There was no reason to write it the way it was written.

I actually have a feeling, that this movie got very heavily re-cut for some reason, where a lot of the set up's and pay offs were cut, which would sort of explain what the fuck happened with the script.

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That could have been the case as well, but it's not that they did a bad job at explaining anything, it's that they just didn't. And not in a sense of -We'll let the audience figure it out, but in a "this is all over the place and we're just winging".

Agreed. The script and overall plot theme was terrible. Nothing Jenkins could really do about that without a complete rewrite. Not her fault, either. I loved the idea of revisiting the '80's - there was so much potential that was left out. And the opening sequence didn't come back to a head at the end.

The first WW movie was terrific - I know some people didn't like the ending, but I did, and it was great overall.

Jenkins and Gadot are coming back for WW3, and hopefully the powers that be realize that the script is what is driving any issues with WW'84.

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It is weird to have a story where the central plot item is explained poorly. You either don't explain it at all or you present the rules.

There is really no in between that works. We never get the rules of the stone besides it takes something from you to grant you your wish, but it is never determined how that was determined except by Max when he was stone as he chose what he wanted to take. But, the stone before Max became it wasn't sentient. And in Max's and Barbara's case what it took related to the wish in some context. Barbara wished to be someone else, so they took her warm personality (so it took what she was to make her like someone else). Max wished to be the stone to get what he wanted to give his son the best life and wishing to be the stone was going to cost him his son in the end.

But, Diana's cost losing her powers to get Steve back ... where is the connection? If the stone takes something random, why do two of the wishes appear to be non-random (the pre-Max wishes).

Honestly, next to time travel ... having something that grants wishes is the next easiest story to mess up.

I agree. The entire premise was never explained, and it still wasn't clear what Max was "losing" when he got his wish. And the opening sequence was poorly tied to the ending - even though I "get it", it could have been better. Fundamental script problems are tough to over come. Hopefully new writers will be brought in for WW3.