Blood Tanking Q

[Diatribe]

Upon pulling (or preparing to pull) a pack (or two) of mobs in a dungeon, what's the most effective prep and rotation to help keep mob aggro on me as much as possible?

Thx.

[Bloodyleech]

Single pulls:
If no boneshield active > (jump in with mount), using dnd on enemies before reaching them, use marrow, use bloodboil -> instant aggro + dmg-reduce active (+ haste ofc)
If boneshield is active, you can skip marrow and use bloodboil immediately.

Best case scenario is (outside of bolstering weeks) getting boneshield above 5 in the "old" trashgroup, dropping a dnd (to slow old trash) + running towards the next trashgroup, getting off 2x bloodboil before any dps can actually damage the next trashgroup.
Depending on Dungeon and trashgroup-combination, getting out of combant for mounted-pulling may be better, tho.
You use a different setup then - running via mount through the first trashgroup, jump + bloodboil to hit the 1st group, dropping dnd between groups, bloodboil when both groups are near enough. Grips as necessary.

I hope this is understandable Tanking is very situational, but those 3 methods are used mostly. It depends on dungeon, trash and most importantly: the keystone-level. You may not want to run through a trashgroup in a +12 fortified week without boneshield.
In necrotic weeks you WANT to save up dnd for kiting purpose.

If your group is instantly going full ham, bloodboil MAY not be enough to instantly hold all enemies. Imagine a firemage bursting one target, subrogue another (not using tricks, very possible in pugs) and boomie goes full aoe-ham. Good luck holding aggro on all enemies. If this is the case, use dnd slow to save those dps'ers. Sadly we do not have an infinite, or bursty, aoe available. There are tanks who are better in this part of gameplay.

Edit: Bonestorm is great! But if you play higher keys, you may not want to use this talent, at all. Aoe-threat is great, selfheal too, but if you get 2 or 3 hittet into death.. well, having vamp up more often may be the better decision.

[Diatribe]

Yeah, I forgot to mention that I went Necro. So between Bonestorm and Slappyhands (Abom Limb), it helps out a ton as long as they're off CD, but in general, I need as much info as I can to help keep the nutjobs in my group from becoming red smears on the ground.

[Bloodyleech]

Yeah, I forgot to mention that I went Necro. So between Bonestorm and Slappyhands (Abom Limb), it helps out a ton as long as they're off CD, but in general, I need as much info as I can to help keep the nutjobs in my group from becoming red smears on the ground.

If your group doesnt play with you, as a DK, it's going to be hard sometimes.
As said earlier, we do not have the abilities to cover big burst aoe if there isn't some kind of planned gameplay (like knowing they all focus the same target with ST abilities, or having tricks, getting help with kiting and so on).

Try to alternate those two spells (you are gonna loose Bonestorm in higher keys, but trash will life longer, so your Abom Limbs are mostly off cooldown), do not use both at the same time.

If, for whatever reason, your groups goes ham on everything, it's their fault if they die. You can only do so much. Saving dnd to save your group is already a big bad thing for your own survival, but MAY be used when not playing higher content - otherwise.. it's them or you - and if you die, all of them die.

In pugs, you always want to play save. Always expect the worst. Use dnd only for defensive purposes, as you can NOT count on your group to save your sweet undead ass.

[Acidbaron]

Good points @Bloodyleech !

Was wondering myself how fast to use marrow in a pull when I got none. I am noticing threat issues here and there and I try to avoid it by marking a primary target I can taunt back easily. But this can back fire as it can cause people to tunnel, as you say your primary concern is surviving yourself if you die every one will if one trigger happy dps goes splat every pull you aren't at fault there.

As venthyr however with mists up often it does make it far easier and makes me wonder if I shouldn't trade it in for something else although I don't do many 9 or higher yet as tank.

I do have to say the change I hate the most is the RP cost on the combat res.

[Bloodyleech]

@Acidbaron
You really should always care for your Boneshield uptime, there is no "maybe" at this specific point.
Ofc, in normals, heroics or lower mythics, it's kinda forgivable, but when you do higher mythics you can't trust the dodgechance you get by using mists - in those 2 or 3 unmitigated hits can easily kill a dk without boneshield. You could use mists instead of dnd, when jumping into a group, but it shouldn't be your highest priority.

If they die.. yeah, well, in higher keys this should not happen, as people that play on these levels usually can think ahead.

[ellieg]

How do you guys kite? Do you run in, pop dnd, blood boil, standard rotation until free dnd proc then vast it and run out? Do you dnd, heart strikes everyone to slow them then run out when needed? Or do you save dnd, run in blood boil do some standard stuff then pop dnd?

[Spiffums]

Mark if you can and do anything to keep them hitting what you're hitting. Pugs suck in general and will blow every cooldown they have on pull. They forget or aren't smart enough to remember how threat works. Yeah yeah there will be people who claim to never have any problems with threat but they either play prot or don't play with comps that can pull threat. There is a reason they buffed threat 10% and it still wasn't enough.

[Berdydk]

Mark if you can and do anything to keep them hitting what you're hitting. Pugs suck in general and will blow every cooldown they have on pull. They forget or aren't smart enough to remember how threat works. Yeah yeah there will be people who claim to never have any problems with threat but they either play prot or don't play with comps that can pull threat. There is a reason they buffed threat 10% and it still wasn't enough.

The DH, BM and Prot Pala don't have the threat problem. And if people are used to these tanks, they will have a bad time with DK.

DK needs survivability and threat and damage buffs.

[Spiffums]

The DH, BM and Prot Pala don't have the threat problem. And if people are used to these tanks, they will have a bad time with DK.

DK needs survivability and threat and damage buffs.

Every tank has problems with threat. That's why Blizzard buffed threat. Pally has it the least but still a mango DPS can pull off you if they are targeting anything besides what you are targeting.

[Miyagie]

The DH, BM and Prot Pala don't have the threat problem. And if people are used to these tanks, they will have a bad time with DK.

DK needs survivability and threat and damage buffs.

DK needs nerfs and nothing else, selfheal is out of controll and you got way way to many def cds.
Also the conduits and legendarys are just to strong.

[Sunderella]

Just ask your rogues/huntards to use tricks and misdirection on you. If they are any worth they should be doing it by default anyway at the beginning of every pull. If they are not, a friendly reminder should be enough.

[Reiziger]

DK needs nerfs and nothing else, selfheal is out of controll and you got way way to many def cds.
Also the conduits and legendarys are just to strong.

Are you drunk? The best performing tanks by far are monks and DH's. Go look at the top Mythic timings, you'll need to scroll pages and pages before you see something else than monks/ dhs. Blood DK is not the worst as Prot war seems to get that 'honor', but we're definitely not out of control lol. Perhaps in your heroic dungeons but not in content that really matters.

[Miyagie]

Are you drunk? The best performing tanks by far are monks and DH's. Go look at the top Mythic timings, you'll need to scroll pages and pages before you see something else than monks/ dhs. Blood DK is not the worst as Prot war seems to get that 'honor', but we're definitely not out of control lol. Perhaps in your heroic dungeons but not in content that really matters.

17+ is no problem with a bad geared dk and warrior can easy do 18+ and are in the top 50...

[Spiffums]

DK needs nerfs and nothing else, selfheal is out of controll and you got way way to many def cds.
Also the conduits and legendarys are just to strong.

What are you smoking? BDK has maybe 2 def cods and neither are that good.

[Eapoe]

What are you smoking? BDK has maybe 2 def cods and neither are that good.

Depends on what is hitting you. AMS/AMZ for magic damage (with the following exception), AMZ for the group on AoE damage, IBF, Rune Tap, Vampiric Blood, Dancing Rune Weapon, Lichborn, and the combo of Summon Ghoul & Corpse Explosion for a bit of extra healing. All of these are defensive CDs, some of which are on a moderately low cooldown.
That said, I’m not arguing BDKs aren’t squishy and don’t need some help. I think the issue is that Blizzard designed them to have some reactive/proactive gameplay in the form of RT style abilities to reduce upcoming damage while things like Death Strike are meant to heal them. The issue comes from the fact that the healing is too low to compensate (even at max stacks) and the damage reduction from RT and IBF (for example) isn’t enough when base defense is so low.
It’s a shame because I really enjoy BDK in m+, and even raid tanking when needed. They have a pretty fun kit with all the playstyle it brings, as well as helpful group things such as single target and AoE grip, as well as AMZ for magic damage (really helpful for multiple raid fights as well as Prideful spawns and dungeon boss/mob damage).

[Reiziger]

17+ is no problem with a bad geared dk and warrior can easy do 18+ and are in the top 50...

My Man, go look at the M+ leaderboards. And please don't point out the single bad geared DK or war that's crowded by tons of DH's and monks, that's just strawmanning. You're wrong.

[Berdydk]

My Man, go look at the M+ leaderboards. And please don't point out the single bad geared DK or war that's crowded by tons of DH's and monks, that's just strawmanning. You're wrong.

I wouldn't feed the troll, he clearly has no idea what he is talking about.

Blood desperately needs a threat and survivability buff. I am not even touching the subject of damage that DH Tanks bring to the group. (Don't forget they also provide a sweet 5% magic buff for casters such as Fire Mages, Owlkins and Locks.)

Plus Blood needs better kiting tools other than a talented Death and Decay.

Every week as the average ilvl increases, better tanks such as DH, BM and Guardian will pull ahead leaving Blood behind.

Since this is DK forum, I would not say much about warrior tanks, but they need a buff as well.

[ellieg]

I wouldn't feed the troll, he clearly has no idea what he is talking about.

Blood desperately needs a threat and survivability buff. I am not even touching the subject of damage that DH Tanks bring to the group. (Don't forget they also provide a sweet 5% magic buff for casters such as Fire Mages, Owlkins and Locks.)

Plus Blood needs better kiting tools other than a talented Death and Decay.

Every week as the average ilvl increases, better tanks such as DH, BM and Guardian will pull ahead leaving Blood behind.

Since this is DK forum, I would not say much about warrior tanks, but they need a buff as well.

If they made dnd proc more often, gave it a charge system, made heart strike slow bigger than 20%, or made dnd slow baseline and added another kiting talent on that row, it would do a lot for us.

[Spiffums]

Depends on what is hitting you. AMS/AMZ for magic damage (with the following exception), AMZ for the group on AoE damage, IBF, Rune Tap, Vampiric Blood, Dancing Rune Weapon, Lichborn, and the combo of Summon Ghoul & Corpse Explosion for a bit of extra healing. All of these are defensive CDs, some of which are on a moderately low cooldown.
That said, I’m not arguing BDKs aren’t squishy and don’t need some help. I think the issue is that Blizzard designed them to have some reactive/proactive gameplay in the form of RT style abilities to reduce upcoming damage while things like Death Strike are meant to heal them. The issue comes from the fact that the healing is too low to compensate (even at max stacks) and the damage reduction from RT and IBF (for example) isn’t enough when base defense is so low.
It’s a shame because I really enjoy BDK in m+, and even raid tanking when needed. They have a pretty fun kit with all the playstyle it brings, as well as helpful group things such as single target and AoE grip, as well as AMZ for magic damage (really helpful for multiple raid fights as well as Prideful spawns and dungeon boss/mob damage).

Which 98% of BDKs use as offensive cooldowns. Defensive cooldown is a DR which IBF is but no one uses it for the DR its to remove the stun. LB is very very niche if you want to death coil to heal yourself........but in all the time it takes to set up these "cooldowns' you could have just used that RP and runes on Death Strike.