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  1. #301
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    And you still don't get that good crafted gear is also a huge factor as opposed to garbage that is relevant only first day.
    None of the gear sources I've mentioned drop garbage, you're making it up. The only valid claim you've made is that it's weekly gated. It is, but I've already stated many times gearing up is simply slower paced, not non-existant like you seem to claim.
    And no Master Looter in an organized raid has less repercussions that you seem to think. None of the guilds raiding normal, or heroic, or mythic raid right now have any problems what so ever with lack of master looter.
    So, when did you actually start to play?
    Last edited by Rageonit; 2020-12-29 at 06:30 PM.

  2. #302
    The Patient
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    I think this depends on how lucky you have been. I have had absolutely terrible luck - did 9/10 normal & 10/10 normal with my guild the past two weeks, had nothing but conduits and anima drop. Been doing at least 4 M+ each week to give myself two options there, but out of the 20+ runs I've done, I've only got two items. To make matters worse, my choices from the Great Vault for the past two weeks were all inferior options for my legendary slot or M+ items respectively, so I am really, really lagging behind for gear. I'm mostly still sporting heroic dungeon gear, the 177 ilvl Covenant chapter pieces are actually very small upgrades for me because of my piss poor luck.

    Meanwhile, enough of my guild have been very lucky that they will actually be moving onto heroic this reset. I won't be able to join them because of my atrocious luck.

    I think most people are having enough drops on average that they don't feel too hard done by, but for unfortunate outliers like myself, these changes are really hurting.

    Fingers crossed that the GV and world boss are kinder to me this reset.

  3. #303
    Tomorrow on my reset day I get something between 200 and 213 from my vault. I get a free. 200 from time walking. I’ll upgrade my legendary to 235. My casual guild raid will down 6 bosses with a good chance to get another piece.

    The first only piece missing compared to bfa is the loot piñata that was warfronts.

  4. #304
    Quote Originally Posted by Rageonit View Post
    None of the gear sources I've mentioned drop garbage, you're making it up. The only valid claim you've made is that it's weekly gated. It is, but I've already stated many times gearing up is simply slower paced, not non-existant like you seem to claim.
    And no Master Looter in an organized raid has less repercussions that you seem to think. None of the guilds raiding normal, or heroic, or mythic raid right now have any problems what so ever with lack of master looter.
    So, when did you actually start to play?
    Dude, you are not getting full picture, like I said. There is no control whatsoever. With master loot if piece X dropped you usually gave it to guy that had worst item in that slot. Now it's not an option. And bonus rolls don't exist anymore, crafted gear is literal trash, badge gear is not a thing.

    Wotlk pserver casually, cata skipped, mop global with SoO at highest level, since then all expansions at mythic level.
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  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Wotlk pserver casually, cata skipped, mop global with SoO at highest level, since then all expansions at mythic level.
    Figures. I'm guessing all those people who came to vanilla late and could never raid AQ of Naxx, because there wasn't any fast catch-up system to get required gear (that supposedly didn't matter back then) see things differently than you. But your arguments based on hearsay are surely very substantial!

  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voidwielder View Post
    M+ kinda big demotivating right now.

    I'm seeing people with 10/10 HC two weeks in a row but at most 2-4 timed 10s having 4-5 ilvls over me while I'm on my 43rd timed 10 with very few HC kills (I work night shifts so organized raiding is impossible for me). I still have 184 trinket and x2 197s.

    I ran 5 Mists 12 this morning for the trinket... well, I have 175 more anima! And my 6th pet! I could get 2 more upgrades from it besides the trinket but those too, refuse to drop.
    I work shifts too, and my luck hasn't been any better than yours. I know it is very small consolation, but you are not alone.

  7. #307
    Quote Originally Posted by Rageonit View Post
    Figures. I'm guessing all those people who came to vanilla late and could never raid AQ of Naxx, because there wasn't any fast catch-up system to get required gear (that supposedly didn't matter back then) see things differently than you. But your arguments based on hearsay are surely very substantial!
    They are based on classic. And people who played since closed beta. Yet you have no counter for master loot or crafted gear. Nobody is complaining about lack of catchup, but the lack of any control whatsoever.
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  8. #308
    It's definitely better for the investors than it is for the players. That should say it all.

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunderella View Post
    consolation anima token could use a big increase
    Definitely agree with this. The only thing more disappointing than having got virtually no loot for weeks is getting an anima token as compensation that's worth less than a world quest anima reward. Getting 200 - 350 anima as consolation? That I could live with.

  10. #310
    Quote Originally Posted by Qnubi View Post
    As you are aware, now we get one drop less per dungeon in m+. So in-time it's 2 items, not in time it's just 1 item. I have to be honest here, I think this change hurts my overall fun of the game the most. On average only 4 out of 10 runs you will get one item, that's not even every 2nd time you go in. And that's if you finish the dungeon in time. I have gone without an item on my main for 5 runs, something I can't really recall back in BFA. I get that they "need" to reduce the drops because there is less RNG with the removal of the TF/WF mechanic. But the game (m+) just feels less fun/rewarding to do. I always thought 3 items per run was pretty much perfect. What do you guys think?

    My primarily source of loot will be m+, and the way it is now I am encouraged to just do one M+ and wait for the weekly lockout and get my vault item. The ilvl of normal m+ is lower to begin with and so I feel like I have little incentive to spam m+. Is this the intention? If yes then my journey in SL will be short lived because the main reason I am even still playing WoW are Dungeons.
    Gear in WoW should take a few months at the very least to get your full BiS, the way the system works now is great as your not showered with pointless epic gear that gears sharded or vendored.

    Its an MMO you should have to put in some effort to aquire high quality gear, not just do some dungeons and be geared just as fast, i would even want 1 step further and only allow mythic raiding level gear to only be aquired by raiding alone and heroic raiding level loot should be the highest for anyone who doesnt want to raid.

    Its easy to gear in mythic plus get a few friends in the same loot class and spam them, then you can all trade each other items they dont need, if you pug then your not going to get as much gear simple as that.
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  11. #311
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    They are based on classic. And people who played since closed beta. Yet you have no counter for master loot or crafted gear. Nobody is complaining about lack of catchup, but the lack of any control whatsoever.
    If you think classic resembles vanilla in any shape or form, you're grossly mistaken. I doubt you can even imagine how the community looked back then, and how the game in general looked back than. No, crafting didn't do anything for people who couldn't get required gear (which suppossedly didn't matter, although I guess in the end it did? It's confusing).
    Tell me, do you have any substantial evidence that in SL, less people is killing normal/heroic/mythic bosses? The world first race didn't indicate that scarcer loot (or lack of master looter...) is a problem, but those people are the best of the best, obviously. What about those down the line? Any statistical proof, at least?

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mardux View Post
    How does it mean more? Its still gear with shit stats most of which is turned into 40-60 gold (if blizzard even allows you to sell it) or turned into a couple of enchanting mats (of blizzard even allows you to DE it). The only real difference is theres less gear to be shit.
    I don't choose stats, I choose ilvl. I'm not that picky. I've yet to vendor any 213 ilvl item.

  13. #313
    The Vault is amazing, I like that I can have up to 9 pieces in there if I choose or like this week where I only had 4 but one was a prefect 216ilvl 2Hand sword.

    The loot at the end of M+ has always been trash, but now only one person getting 1 piece of loot is a joke.

  14. #314
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    I worry that once everyone is geared around heroic raid level, m+ will seriously lose its replay value, which I actually think is a shame. It has a nice competitiveness to it, even for lower-tier players. It encourages people to get better. Typically speaking, an m+15 has been harder than heroic raiding, last I checked. Unless I'm wrong?
    "A flower.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmocd061d7bab8 View Post
    yeh but lava is just very hot water

  15. #315
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Wotlk pserver casually, cata skipped, mop global with SoO at highest level, since then all expansions at mythic level.
    Never stop! Never stop showing how clueless you are. He didn't think it through? You weren't even there!

    WotLK PS does not count, so you started as late in Cata. No wonder why you are used to gear showering. And no, what we have now is not worse than vanilla or tbc, its way better. It's around on par with WotLK, but you didn't play any of them, so how dare you come here and lecture people who actually did with your per usual nonsense?

    Based on Classic? Classic is not even CLOSE to how it was in Vanilla. Players roflstomp classic content and get geared up pretty quickly compared to then, what took 4 hours before now take 1 hour. In Vanilla and TBC gear was very important. Because numbers were more important than mechanics. You needed gear to progress because number wise it was tightly tuned to the current skill level. We can all look back now and say how the hell did the player base struggle so much, but when the player base do not have the skill to progress and gearing is slow, it made everything so much harder. Gearing now is MILES better than it was in Vanilla, it is easier than TBC to gear up, it is on par with WotLK, the expansion the gear showering started.

    But how can you know when you didn't play those expansions.

  16. #316
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Never stop! Never stop showing how clueless you are. He didn't think it through? You weren't even there!
    When I've applied to my first raiding guild in vanilla, the requirement was to have an entire blue class set (Beaststalker for my hunter). Why? I don't know, because. I'm guessing they wanted a proof I'm commited to the game. And I had to commit a lot of time to get that set - 8 pieces, dropping in instances that could sometimes take hours to complete, with no RNG protection what so ever. But most of all, with no social or quality of life improvements and addons we have right now. But, but it is so tough to get gear in SL! Vanilla was so much better!

    People who base their opinions on vanilla by playing classic forget there was no luxury of DBM, DPS meters, dungeon tools, plethora of addons, all the knowledge we have right now and we didn't back then. Need to form a group? Spam general manually, find capable people, invite them. Cross your fingers they know what they're doing. With no logs, no armory, no nothing. Not even achievements to prove you ever did the instance! With people playing exotic (and not exactly efficient) builds because they didn't know any better. But yeah, it was sooooo easy back then, and gear didn't matter, right? Because I did it in classic! Well, sorry to burst your bubble, @kaminaris, but classic is make-believe. If you didn't play vanilla, you know nothing. Same for TBC.

  17. #317
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Snip
    Yet again clueless post. Amount of loot is not what makes this system trash.
    I will say it last time, then you will need either understand it or drop the act.

    Lack of control, lack of any bad luck protection. No, gearing is not better than vanilla. Amount doesn't matter, whole system does.
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  18. #318
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Seems like you didn't give it a thought after all. Maybe in vanilla average level of players was worse, that doesn't mean content was hard. I know people who played since closed beta, played with them thruout MoP and WoD. Difficulty was myth. Up until MoP actually, overall difficulty was lower so that players back then, clearing heroic (when mythic didn't exist) in 3 months, struggled in finishing mythic later tiers in WoD in time. Not to mention M+ didn't exist so you had similar situation to what Wotlk had. You know, master loot, group loot, bonus rools/badges, fairly powerful crafted gear.





    WEEKLY, WEEKLY, WEEKLY, dude. Stop. We no longer have just basic dungeons like in MoP. 15 is the gear limit now, which is artificially limited by weekly shit. With no subsystem to offset bad luck.
    How about i get my loot from activities I do, instead of weekly bingo lottery?



    There is no opinions here, just simple fact. There is no system to avoid or counter bad luck. And such system is shit. Has never been the case in entire history of wow.



    Yeah cool story dude but you had guilds, nobody is even talking about pugging raids. Even being in fair guild can leave you with no upgrades at all.


    That is one item, that usually is just one of 2 slots.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Oh maybe those issues that there is no way to offset bad luck in any way or maybe those issues that if rng screws you over nothing can help you with that, oh and maybe the issue that actual content isn't rewarding and you are only getting tickets for weekly bingo lottery, or maybe those issues that weekly bingo lottery has much much better gear than content, oh an maybe the issues that you won't be able to trade loot for quite some time, or maybe those issues that guilds have no way to help out their raiders if they got bad luck in some some slots, oh an maybe those issues that professions are crap?

    - - - Updated - - -



    Because it was obvious it will be like this, no one in a right mind thought that blizzard will make static gearing system with same frequency as it was with TF.
    Suck it up buttercup. It's an MMO

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Yet again clueless post. Amount of loot is not what makes this system trash.
    I will say it last time, then you will need either understand it or drop the act.

    Lack of control, lack of any bad luck protection. No, gearing is not better than vanilla. Amount doesn't matter, whole system does.
    The weekly vault IS bad luck protection

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Dude, tell me, which expansion didn't have ANY kind of bad luck protection or alternatives.
    Every expansion without raid currencies.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Because it doesn't exist and you still don't understand implication of having master loot or not.
    And you still don't understand that gear didn't matter back then as it matters now.
    And you still don't get that good crafted gear is also a huge factor as opposed to garbage that is relevant only first day.
    Oh my, you admitted to how gear matters now! Wow! Gear mattering in WoW?? An MMO? A core, fundamental mechanic has returned to the game??

  19. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by Stardrift View Post
    The weekly vault IS bad luck protection
    No, vault is basically the only source of good lood, not bad luck protection system as it doesn't offer any way to counter bad luck.


    Quote Originally Posted by Stardrift View Post
    Every expansion without raid currencies.
    Tough luck, master loot is one. So try again.


    Quote Originally Posted by Stardrift View Post
    Oh my, you admitted to how gear matters now! Wow! Gear mattering in WoW?? An MMO? A core, fundamental mechanic has returned to the game??
    This is just your buzzwords. I treat gear like tool, gear always mattered to some extent. Now it matters when rng screws you over and over again.
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  20. #320
    Don't argue semantics with the guy, there's no point - and that's exactly why I refused to answer his question about "bad luck protection". If he doesn't deem a system a bad luck protection system, than clearly, it isn't. Because reasons. What's the point of explaining if the only answer you can expect is: "Nah".

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