UH is a design patchwerk

[Lodravel]

A good way to sharpen the identity of the spec would be to fold Festering Wounds (both as a resource and a source of damage) into the minion aspect. Instead of applying wounds, you summon fodder minions, and instead of bursting wounds, you sacrifice minions.

It would look cooler, sharpen the disparate minion and wound facets of the spec into one mechanic, and detaching the "wound" resource from each target makes target-swapping easier.

Yes, but also that sounds a lot like the other summoner spec we have. Not a big fan of wounds, thematically, but I reckon having your spec be reliant on managing minions in melee range would come with complications. Think of PvP or movement heavy fights.

[bloodmoth13]

Disagree i think its one of the best integrations of a class fantasy in the game, diseases and necromancy.

[Sithalos]

Unholy is fine as-is. Frost is a great alternative if having to press more than 4 buttons overwhelms you.

[Dane81]

I played a handful of classes trying to pick my main until I tried UH - it's the most fun I've had playing for quite a while. Great burst (single target AND AoE), decent sustain and good self-healing when needed. The way the different mechanics come together to make an engaging rotation is exactly why I'm liking it so much. As an added bonus, abomination limb looks cool and is super fun.

[Nerovar]

I played a handful of classes trying to pick my main until I tried UH - it's the most fun I've had playing for quite a while. Great burst (single target AND AoE), decent sustain and good self-healing when needed. The way the different mechanics come together to make an engaging rotation is exactly why I'm liking it so much. As an added bonus, abomination limb looks cool and is super fun.

How exactly do the mechanics "come together"? Because the way I see it, most mechanics UH deals with are pretty disjointed.

[CylomDashti]

Unholy was in the wilderness after snapshotting was removed, the majority of the spec's gameplay was dedicated to extending super amped dots which just stopped being possible. Playing an unholy DK in wod was basically just playing the game of 'how few times can I realistically press festering per encounter'.

I was wondering what the hell you were on about since I mained UH/Blood from wotlk until the makeover in Legion...Festerblight! oh it's been a while, can't believe I forgot about it.

A shame to what they did to blood and unholy, coming back to DK in legion was a bit of a shock for me and made me reroll into a few classes till I found one that I clicked with. Every now and then I still level up my DK and try him out in hopes that it is fixed but with no luck.

They really seem to be liking this zit-popper, mini-aids spreader, weakling-summoner style of DK, feels like a jack of some trades, master of none. It feels off, just like Frost mage, a mix of all kinds of stuff that don't seem to mesh well together, doesn't even play well...place the zits, summon the diverse army so they do stuff and place more zits for me to pop i guess, pop, pop, pop.

[msdos]

People in here blowing smoke. It's fine if you like Unholy, but pressing one dot and having your pet auto attack isn't ground breaking nor is it more complicated than Frost (Frost presses more than 4 buttons btw).

Also commenting on the fantasy of the spec is pretty irrelevant to this thread I think, we're talking about how it plays mechanically.

[Lodravel]

People in here blowing smoke. It's fine if you like Unholy, but pressing one dot and having your pet auto attack isn't ground breaking nor is it more complicated than Frost (Frost presses more than 4 buttons btw).

True that. Also, every second post is like "it's fine, if you don' t like it or it's too hard, play something else".
Did you read my post?
I do enjoy it. But I think it could be much better, considering how we're juggling several balls at once here. Am I complaining because its difficult? No, don't think it is. Lots to do but all of it rather simple... And something about that, I'd like to see change.

[Soluna]

What were they thinking when they reiterated on this class over the past expansions? It's like they took several puzzle pieces and duct taped them together instead of solving the puzzle to make a fitting picture.
We've got a pet, we've got the runic system, we've got festering wounds, we've got a disease... and it's like most of these parts function independantly of one another. It doesn't flow together.

You manage your pet but it has no effect on festering wounds, the other core mechanic. You manage your wounds but then you get random Death Coil procs thrown at you. On top, you need to reapply a dot every couple seconds. Not complex or difficult - Everything is just so disjunct!

I guess I'm just frustrated because I enjoy the spec and I can see that it could yet be better.

Unholy deathknight is one of the best classes in the game fun-wise atm. It has so many interesting things going on for it. Stop denying it's not complex/difficult for you. I find it pretty easy to mix/match things together. Everything has some synergy going on, from applying wounds, to popping them, utilising runes for both, and generating enough runic power to enhance the speed of the runes regeneration, while dealing splash aoe or decent single target, which directly interacts with your minion cooldowns, which are used to boost dps, enhance your wound application, or apply wounds in a group of mobs in the case of dark transformation.

It literally all works together so well.

[Raugnaut]

Fury and arms were both massively improved going from WoD to legion. DK was so good in WoD though, it was destined to be worse after a major rework. I quite liked going back and forth between breath and plague build in HFC on unholy. Also the permanent breath build for blood was crazy fun in BRF. That might just be because it was so op though.

While I do agree that Fury was massively improved, I can't really speak the same for Arms. Besides, Blizz removed Heroic Strike as WELL as Gladiator Stance going into Legion.

[Kuja]

I love UH as it is currently. Played it in WOTLK last time, and it was very fun then as well. I'm just afraid that the 15% nerf to damage will be too much, which might make me change my main again.

[Bigcountry11782]

Don't worry, UH will be clunky AND weak when blizz goes too far with their nerf next week...

Its not even a 5% nerf lol we will be fine.

[Sunslayer]

What were they thinking when they reiterated on this class over the past expansions? It's like they took several puzzle pieces and duct taped them together instead of solving the puzzle to make a fitting picture.
We've got a pet, we've got the runic system, we've got festering wounds, we've got a disease... and it's like most of these parts function independantly of one another. It doesn't flow together.

You manage your pet but it has no effect on festering wounds, the other core mechanic. You manage your wounds but then you get random Death Coil procs thrown at you. On top, you need to reapply a dot every couple seconds. Not complex or difficult - Everything is just so disjunct!

I guess I'm just frustrated because I enjoy the spec and I can see that it could yet be better.

I think that sums up most reworks. It feels like the abilities added back in SL are a mess of incoherent babble.
They need a much better class design team and they need class designers that actually play the class they are working on.

[shoegazing]

because they felt like changing one of the best specs in the game in the name of class fantasy during legion. it's so fucking sad what we've got compared to what we had.

Same problem with Rogue class / Subtlety spec in particular.

They ruined an amazing spec in Legion, for the sake of a new "class fantasy" that the existing players hated and never asked for.

After years of complaints they finally unprune some more classic buttons but they don't go far enough. They don't delete the effects of the Legion redesign, they just add some classic stuff back on top of it, in a way that no longer fits.

The Legion class redesigns are one of the most expensive and stupid mistakes they've ever made and we are STILL paying the price for it today. Imagine if they had just left the classes alone back in Legion and put their effort into making more awesome content.... instead they created a huge disaster that they *still* haven't dug themselves out of.

Sometimes it still blows my mind to think of the massive requisite stupidity and ineptitude to completely redesign characters in an MMO game that your players have been playing for 14 years. It's just amazing that anybody got paid to be that utterly stupid and terrible at their job that they said "yes, this is a good idea, I don't anticipate creating any negative backlash from the players by completely changing the characters that they invested over a decade into". It just blows my mind to think anybody was actually that fucking dumb.

[Grable]

As someone new to DK in SL, and having started with Frost and now swapped to UH - I have to say that I like UH gameplay more. Frost is simpler but faster and more "proccy", but I like UH's slower gameplay with more decisions.

[565656gg]

Now bear with me on this:

DK ally T9. Yes, I know it looked ridiculously stupid on every race... but it looks AWESOME on Worgen, makes you look like an Egyptian god or something. Then I'll just have to get some friends to help me run TOC a few times to get the off pieces I need to fill it out.

As for weapons, depends entirely on whether I'll be staying DW frost or going back to Unholy in 4.3, and what types of weapons I end up with after the first couple weeks of heroics and raids.

[Raugnaut]

Now bear with me on this:

DK ally T9. Yes, I know it looked ridiculously stupid on every race... but it looks AWESOME on Worgen, makes you look like an Egyptian god or something. Then I'll just have to get some friends to help me run TOC a few times to get the off pieces I need to fill it out.

As for weapons, depends entirely on whether I'll be staying DW frost or going back to Unholy in 4.3, and what types of weapons I end up with after the first couple weeks of heroics and raids.

4.3? Need friends to help with ToC? Did this post get sent here from Cata or something?

[maccajoe]

How exactly do the mechanics "come together"? Because the way I see it, most mechanics UH deals with are pretty disjointed.

How exactly do they not come together? Lets say we focus on ST. Timmy and pets are most of the dmg. Unholy blight while up applies dot, while buffing pet dmg. This means u wanna line up timmy CD with unholy blight and apoc and aoftd if you can. You always wanna apoc with at least 4 festering wounds so you summon more pets=better synergy with UB dmg. At the same time doing this while you line up haste buffs benefiits you greatly.

What exactly does not come together in your opinion? Id genuinely like to know.

- - - Updated - - -

I was wondering what the hell you were on about since I mained UH/Blood from wotlk until the makeover in Legion...Festerblight! oh it's been a while, can't believe I forgot about it.

A shame to what they did to blood and unholy, coming back to DK in legion was a bit of a shock for me and made me reroll into a few classes till I found one that I clicked with. Every now and then I still level up my DK and try him out in hopes that it is fixed but with no luck.

They really seem to be liking this zit-popper, mini-aids spreader, weakling-summoner style of DK, feels like a jack of some trades, master of none. It feels off, just like Frost mage, a mix of all kinds of stuff that don't seem to mesh well together, doesn't even play well...place the zits, summon the diverse army so they do stuff and place more zits for me to pop i guess, pop, pop, pop.

You just described every class, generate combopoints do dmg, use hot streaks use procs?????????
"feels like a jack of some trades, master of none" I mean sure apart from the fact UH dmg in raids and m+ is great right now sure why not.

[Uglytoes]

The two times I really enjoyed Unholy were when Festerblight was a thing in ToT during MoP and during ToS in Legion with the Valk'yr buffed by Death Coil and hitting with a massive 20 stack of Cold Heart just blowing everyone out of the water in the opener.

[Nerovar]

How exactly do they not come together? Lets say we focus on ST. Timmy and pets are most of the dmg. Unholy blight while up applies dot, while buffing pet dmg. This means u wanna line up timmy CD with unholy blight and apoc and aoftd if you can. You always wanna apoc with at least 4 festering wounds so you summon more pets=better synergy with UB dmg. At the same time doing this while you line up haste buffs benefiits you greatly.

What exactly does not come together in your opinion? Id genuinely like to know.

I'm sorry but having one ability that gives you 4 pets for 15 seconds based on your festering wounds every 1.5min is exactly what I'm talking about. Apart from those two CDs you mentioned 90% of the time you're just pressing buttons that have no interactivity with any other mechanics of the spec. It's convoluted and mind-numbingly simple at the same time. Hell, the oldschool rune system was more interesting than this.