Shadowlands: Rapidly Climbing the Ladder in Popularity

[inafume]

You are really really ignorant to all the launch problems of BfA. You pretty much had to grind everything available in the game at launch to be on the curve for Uldir and the first Mythic+ season.

Player Power Reward Mechanics in Shadowlands:
- Raids
- Dungeons
- PvP
- Torghast (1-2 hour per week depending on your skill)
- Renown

Player Power Reward Mechanics in BfA:
- Raids
- Dungeons
- PvP
- Island Expeditions
- Warfronts
- Emissaries
- Reputations (meaning WQ Grind)

It gets even better when you look at the other things to do. I have so much fun stuff to do rn, that I don't want BfA or WoD back at any time. But it's optional! I can use my time for other games, stuff or real life, while BfA burned through so many people because of that grind.

Cosmetic Reward Mechanics in Shadowlands, that don't reward Player Power:
- Maw/Twisting Corridors
- Anima
- Covenant Sanctum
- Sanctum Ability
- Reputations
- Pet Battles
- Callings

Cosmetic Reward Mechanics in BfA, that don't reward Player Power:
- Pet Battles

People like you either didn't play at BfA launch while wanting to raid asap or try to twist facts because they want to make the game look bad. As with Artifact Power in Legion, Azerite was a real problem and the reason systems like that are gone for now.

You can get usable items via Callings (Emissary) in SL as well as from WQs/Rep Grinds. It's almost exactly the same number of available sources as BfA.

[Malania]

Yeah thats cool, 6 first weeks when everyone was doing stuff because its new. After that, not so much. So yeah its misinformation, still nobody was forced and at least it mattered something.

Now SL is so optional that you can op-out of playing at all.

The fact that I did play it and know the system kind of points to the alternative doesn't it. It could only be misinformation if I hadn't tried it at all.

What exactly is your motivation here? Are you being pissy because the content offered in SL is optional or because you want to be forced to grind to maintain status quo. Like is it some sort of masochism for you when playing? The entire game is optional, you don't have to sub at all.

[kaminaris]

I'm not trying anything dude, I just put out the way the game is, and for what kind of people. I didn't say gated is good or bad, cause some people may like it some may don't. But I'm outputing what the game has to offer, gated, no infinite grind, lower pvp ilvl then pve, how much time does it take to do the necesary stuff to do, stuff like that.


But the real fact is that you got 2 normal items from 10 boss kills and 6 heroic items out of 24 boss kills, and at the same time whining that there are horrible loot drops in raid and mythic+. That is clearly a fact and washes down all your credibility, no matter how hard you try to make the lood drops bad.

Nah dude you are trying to hard. SL is good for top tier guild and people who don't want to play at all.
My luck has nothing to do with how horrible loot system is. Because you know. I am not biased based on MY luck as you are.

Something you won't ever be able to understand. Basically if you got lucky = good loot system, if you get unlucky = shit system. Thats what you think while reality is much more complex. I won't repeat myself, you must be blind to not see issues with current loot system.

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The fact that I did play it and know the system kind of points to the alternative doesn't it. It could only be misinformation if I hadn't tried it at all.

What exactly is your motivation here? Are you being pissy because the content offered in SL is optional or because you want to be forced to grind to maintain status quo. Like is it some sort of masochism for you when playing? The entire game is optional, you don't have to sub at all.

I was never forced, I do not have OCD. I am fairly sure vast majority of people don't have OCD like people on forums claim.

[Malania]

I was never forced, I do not have OCD. I am fairly sure vast majority of people don't have OCD like people on forums claim.

Nobody is forced. WoW, now like then is capped based on what the player is willing to do. If you wanted to complete in world first races, you HAD to be as prepared as possible or you were offering up your spot to someone else who would.

But it's not even WF players. Any direct increase in player power is going to seem like it's something you should be doing for your character. If the game is setup to encourage that in an uncapped system, it's poor design. Some people are OCD, most aren't but they'll still feel they have to so they can keep up.

[Kel_Sceptic]

Nah dude you are trying to hard. SL is good for top tier guild and people who don't want to play at all.
My luck has nothing to do with how horrible loot system is. Because you know. I am not biased based on MY luck as you are.

Something you won't ever be able to understand. Basically if you got lucky = good loot system, if you get unlucky = shit system. Thats what you think while reality is much more complex.

Well, when you will ever see a post of me bashing the loot drop rate system, I will gladly aknowledge your afirmation, until then, only one fact remains, you are geared good, and that is a REAL FACT.

The difference between me and you, is that I am understanding that it might be a problem with the drop rates, MIGHT, but people are not showing their data cause it might prove otherwise. But you can't comprehend the fact that unlimited grinding power pushes people to grind, and that is in FACT a psychological complex problem.

LE:
An example of psychological problem is that FBI is not allowed to offer/show 1 milion dollars to a human, in a sting operation, because the human mind is so susceptible, that, in most cases, when people saw that ENORMOUS quantity of money, they were accepting that deal to ... anything (blow up somthing, kill someone and so on), even if they didn't hat that intention in the first place ).
end /LE


Someone else here said that all people that whine about not geting drops from raid and M+ runs, should post their armory so we can check it out.
Until proven contrary, and from what information I got (your armory), how do I know that the whining people are in fact all "lucky" as you and they just miss the gear shower from BFA, while still beeing high level actually ))) ?

[kaminaris]

Nobody is forced. WoW, now like then is capped based on what the player is willing to do. If you wanted to complete in world first races, you HAD to be as prepared as possible or you were offering up your spot to someone else who would.

But it's not even WF players. Any direct increase in player power is going to seem like it's something you should be doing for your character. If the game is setup to encourage that in an uncapped system, it's poor design. Some people are OCD, most aren't but they'll still feel they have to so they can keep up.

Who cares about World first races? Certainly game shouldn't be designed around them. And It was capped. Both soft and hard capped till 8.3 so again, false and false.

[Kel_Sceptic]

Who cares about World first races? Certainly game shouldn't be designed around them. And It was capped. Both soft and hard capped till 8.3 so again, false and false.

Getting an item with azerite traits unlocked 10 levels over your actual neck level meant it was forcing you to FARM AP. Stop pointing out the soft and hard cap for the elites/wf, we are talking about issues that affected the normal players.

LE:

Ion interview HERE


"The first thing I really found interesting in this interview was the discussion of the Heart of Azeroth and Azerite Traits going forward. In patch 8.2, all traits will be unlocked as soon as you pick up a new piece of Azerite gear, letting you simply pick what you want as soon as you loot the item. The progression system that used to be in Azerite gear will move to the Heart of Azeroth itself, which you will level up to earn new passive and active powers. Yes, active — Hazzikostas specifically said there will be new active ability that will “meaningfully change your combat rotation.”

8.2 Bandaid patch HERE


Hope you do realise you are actually trying to argue with the DIRECTOR's statements and conclusions.

[La]

I would say it's rapidly falling off the ladder for me, after having played it since launch. But, maybe it isn't entirely a Shadowlands thing, though the expansion definitely has some glaring issues, most notable being all of the ilvl/gear scarcity issues and how the weekly vault, while better than the previous, is also the biggest reason for it.

I also don't understand Blizzard's hardon for content gating. Seriously Blizzard, you can release a campaign story and let people play it all through, and then the next patch create more story. Your aversion to it because of fear of some type of player only playing the story and then instantly quitting and costing you money isn't something you should be so concerned about.

[Dire]

I can only speak for myself, but so far, this expansion is on par to be my new favorite. It has already knocked TBC out of 2nd place and is heavily breathing down the neck of WotLK for first. I came into this game Jan 19, 2006, and after Cataclysm, have just not been impressed with the DLCs that followed. Granted, that is just my personal, subjective opinion. I am speaking for no one but myself, nor am I claiming my opinion to be imperical data on the state of the other DLCs.

Is anyone else either seeing Shadowlands move into their number one spot, or at least rapidly climbing the ranks? I know we still have a ways to go in this expac, but if 9.1 and 9.2 are anything like the launch, I have no doubt this expac will apologize for the last 4 in my book and become the new number one on my list.

After replaying wotlk, i'll tell you its all cognitive dissonance. wotlk was not as good as your memory allows you to believe. Shadowlands is the best thing ever put in this game. No contest.

[kaminaris]

Well, when you will ever see a post of me bashing the loot drop rate system, I will gladly aknowledge your afirmation, until then, only one fact remains, you are geared good, and that is a REAL FACT.

I would need to be stupid to think, that loot system is good just because i got lucky.

The difference between me and you, is that I am understanding that it might be a problem with the drop rates, MIGHT, but people are not showing their data cause it might prove otherwise. But you can't comprehend the fact that unlimited grinding power pushes people to grind, and that is in FACT a psychological complex problem.

Difference between you and me is that I understand math and probability calculations. I also understand that where there is no way to counter bad luck, people might get screwed hard.

Also there is no need to prove anything. Its a simple math. Imagine if I got unlucky on weapon instead of chest, I would be stuck sucking cocks for entire month.

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Getting an item with azerite traits unlocked 10 levels over your actual neck level meant it was forcing you to FARM AP. Stop pointing out the soft and hard cap for the elites/wf, we are talking about issues that affected the normal players.

LE:

Ion interview HERE


"The first thing I really found interesting in this interview was the discussion of the Heart of Azeroth and Azerite Traits going forward. In patch 8.2, all traits will be unlocked as soon as you pick up a new piece of Azerite gear, letting you simply pick what you want as soon as you loot the item. The progression system that used to be in Azerite gear will move to the Heart of Azeroth itself, which you will level up to earn new passive and active powers. Yes, active — Hazzikostas specifically said there will be new active ability that will “meaningfully change your combat rotation.”

8.2 Bandaid patch HERE


Hope you do realise you are actually trying to argue with the DIRECTOR's statements and conclusions.

You clearly don't know what "forced" means. You had all your dps traits unlocked already. Just those defensive and +5 ilvl was locked.
Ion never said anything about you being forced to do stuff.

[Kel_Sceptic]

You clearly don't know what "forced" means. You had all your dps traits unlocked already. Just those defensive and +5 ilvl was locked.
Ion never said anything about you being forced to do stuff.

Really starting to think we really didn't played BFA at all. Or you actually were a tryhard grinder and you actually think that if YOU had no issues with azerite traits being locked, then no one else did.

As you already see in that interview, that was a REAL PROBLEM, people were getting items with the first Azerit trait unlockable at lvl 20, and they were only 10 or 12. That is what FORCED means. You clearly are delusional, trying to fight the conclusions even the game designer explicitly showed.

[Nuggsy]

As someone who plays the game for Mythic+ I'd enjoy the game a hell of a lot more if they didn't decide to smash both ilvl and gear because of the 1% who are mythic raiders. Ilvl dropped to appease ego, loot reduced to keep the mythic raiders from farming up gear (despite them just doing it in pvp and thus making that a pointless change that only hurt those that just run Mythic+ content). Hours upon hours and 1000's of gold later you have way, way less to show for it than in previous expansions. Mythic 15's award 210 ilvl that's even below HEROIC raiding and in my opinion a Mythic +15 is on par if not more challenging than a heroic raid. Yes you can do them more frequently and they don't want the mythic raiders to get high ilvl and smash through bosses but seeing as they could do that via pvp regardless, which they will do because they force themselves to do so, I don't see the point in screwing over everyone who just runs Mythics+. Honestly, Key levels 10-14 drop the same ilvl rewards at the end with +15's being 3 more ilvls above while being 3 BELOW Heroic raid. It feels really crummy knowing that the only real gearing is done though the Weekly chest. In BFA the weekly was always the best source of loot but not to the point of making the weekly grind feel like a bunch of wasted time. Even with the multiple choices of loot there is no guarantee that you'll get a replacement and seeing as the ilvls are incredibly vast (Weekly 15's drop 226) it can feel quite crappy. I truly hope they do some tweaking so that they're not trying to design the rest of the game around one small group of players while at the same time failing to really hinder that small group of players and only really messing with the people who just run Mythic+

[Rageonit]

If you didn't play BfA why are you even spreading misinformation

Hey @kaminaris, what are your thoughts on vanilla, TBC and WotLK? Care to spread some more misinformation in this thread too?

[Malania]

Who cares about World first races? Certainly game shouldn't be designed around them. And It was capped. Both soft and hard capped till 8.3 so again, false and false.

Incorrect. It was soft capped with diminishing returns. There was no hard cap. People who do it and watch it care? The game isn't designed around them.

[Orby]

Kind of sucks that this is the expansion I decide to quit the game on then lol. It's MoP all over again i'll probably regret quitting around this expansion too lol

No fault of the game by the way, I just burned out after leveling to max level and all the stuff that I now have to do post max level has given me anxiety that I cannot find the motivation to play anymore. I been playing since 2005 and if its anything like the break I took halfway through Cata I expect to come back half way through the next expansion. wow just requires way too much of my time these days and I just cannot do it

[kaminaris]

Incorrect. It was soft capped with diminishing returns. There was no hard cap. People who do it and watch it care? The game isn't designed around them.

Incorrect, It was hard capped at 50, then 70 then 8.3 unlocked the cap.

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Really starting to think we really didn't played BFA at all. Or you actually were a tryhard grinder and you actually think that if YOU had no issues with azerite traits being locked, then no one else did.

As you already see in that interview, that was a REAL PROBLEM, people were getting items with the first Azerit trait unlockable at lvl 20, and they were only 10 or 12. That is what FORCED means. You clearly are delusional, trying to fight the conclusions even the game designer explicitly showed.

How many mythic bosses have you killed in BfA? Me? A farmer? LUL. I stopped doing WQs after 3 months of expansions. Never did more than 6 islands a week. Then skipped entirety of months worth of islands.

So, how much and at which level you played?

Real problem is shadowlands and absolutely no way of countering bad luck, and content feeling unrewarding and pointless.

[Kel_Sceptic]

Incorrect, It was hard capped at 50, then 70 then 8.3 unlocked the cap.

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How many mythic bosses have you killed in BfA? Me? A farmer? LUL. I stopped doing WQs after 3 months of expansions. Never did more than 6 islands a week. Then skipped entirety of months worth of islands.

So, how much and at which level you played?

Real problem is shadowlands and absolutely no way of countering bad luck, and content feeling unrewarding and pointless.

You still try to ignore the conclusion that even WoW's creators had, that the azerite traits system was brooken for in 8.0 and 8.1.


I've played the first two months, then 1 month on 1 off, still hopeing that BFA's problems will be resolved. after march, I've stopped playing until december 2019, when nostalgy made me reactivate it and I've started playing again.

As I said multiple times. I'm a PvP only player since MoP. So while I've done Visions 5mask for gear (love the solo challange, and would have done it without gear also).

In my entire BFA experience, I've been forced in doing M+ and raiding due to:
1. lack of pvp vendors and pvp gearing system
2. azerite farming due to azerite traits not unlocked
3. essences
4. assaults for corruption etc.

[Accendor]

Shadowlands with its current reward structure feels similar bad as BfA did at launch.
It has a lot of potential, but as of right now it failed already in most aspects (except levelling in Ardenweald).
The raid is actually nice too, but overtuned a lot.

All in all I enjoy the time that I currently play, but I am not playing much, as most things feel unrewarding.
This includes m+ and for all the faults BfA had, at least it had m+ and some of the dungeons were actually cool.
SL dungeons are meh and if I do 20 runs and get 700 anima out of it, it just feels bad and makes me want to spend my time elsewhere.

[Akibaboy]

Especially since with the vault they do give out welfare, but this time only for the rich. Great approach, learnd that from Trump?
Hey those guys that already get the best gear out there get some more awsome gear for free!

Uh what? You can't do a 20 minute LFR run? You can't do a 20-30 minute M+ run? You can't join a no strings attached RBG and get 1 win? (I do this on 3 characters a week by just searching "yolo" in the group finder. Lots of fun.) All of that is casual friendly as I can think of.

If you can't complete that content, then you really don't need gear for the remaining things you are engaging in. It's not welfare at all... players asked for a means to have a little more control over the weekly chest, and Blizzard delivered additional choices and additional options to achieve the unlock. I no longer need to feel pressured to do a M+ run each week if I have a solid number of raid kills, or vice versa.

Completing content has nothing to do with being rich. It has to do with performing the base functions of an MMO - cooperate with others and take on challenges for reward. What's so difficult to understand about that? If your desire it to run around doing WQs and story campaigns, you have more than enough player power in crafted and solo-acquirable gear options to complete those tasks. I'm not a Mythic raider and I don't complain that I can't get 226 ilvl because I don't need that to engage the content I am interested in doing.

[chiddie]

Shadowlands with its current reward structure feels similar bad as BfA did at launch.
It has a lot of potential, but as of right now it failed already in most aspects (except levelling in Ardenweald).
The raid is actually nice too, but overtuned a lot.

All in all I enjoy the time that I currently play, but I am not playing much, as most things feel unrewarding.
This includes m+ and for all the faults BfA had, at least it had m+ and some of the dungeons were actually cool.
SL dungeons are meh and if I do 20 runs and get 700 anima out of it, it just feels bad and makes me want to spend my time elsewhere.

Curious, for me if there’s a failed leveling zone, is indeed Ardenweald by far.

I don’t think I’ll ever pick that covenant with an alt given how I hate the zone.