[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Kotuthan]

He voted and campaigned to remain. While he's left it a little late, it's hardly hypocritical for him to do so.

He switched positions it seems.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presente...s-sides-in-br/

[ranzino]

the rock Gibraltar is now Schengen territory, Brexit in full swing

[OwenBurton]

I do not agree with the Labour party on everything. Its politicians also have serious flaws -- but surely a United Kingdom within the EU is vastly better than a UK outside it? Perhaps the British people should not consider what the EU can do for them, but possibly the other way around. Is your country's interests the only one which matter?

[Pann]

Well... that's that then... after four and half long and, sometimes, painful years the transition period has come to an end and the UK is, after almost 50 years, now an independent nation once again.

Some will see this as a cause for celebration, others a time of sadness but most will breathe a sigh of relief that it is finally over but I prefer to optimistic and hope that 2021 will be the beginning of a new but different chapter in the UK/EU relationship.

Whatever your feelings on Brexit I wish you well and hope that you all have a better year than the last.

[dribbles]

Thanks to people like me the UK is now in charge of its own destiny. How will historians in years to come record this momentous occasion? I wager they will say this, was their finest hour.

With mission accomplished by Brexiteers and Brexit now got done, goodbye eurochums, what a long strange trip its been.

All stand please...

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Thanks to people like me the UK is now in charge of its own destiny.

Except for the bits where it isn't, which is quite a lot of the 1400 pages of the trade deal, and of the 600 pages of the WA.

[Inuyaki]

Except for the bits where it isn't, which is quite a lot of the 1400 pages of the trade deal, and of the 600 pages of the WA.

...which dribbles will ignore anyway because he seems to be incapable of learning.

[Easo]

the rock Gibraltar is now Schengen territory, Brexit in full swing

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55497084

This is actually quite funny. If I, Latvian citizen without UK passport/visa/whatever, arrive from Latvia I will not have the passport check. If Dribbles, UK citizen with UK passport, arrives from London he will have it.

[Huehuecoyotl]

Thanks to people like me the UK is now in charge of its own destiny. How will historians in years to come record this momentous occasion? I wager they will say this, was their finest hour.

With mission accomplished by Brexiteers and Brexit now got done, goodbye eurochums, what a long strange trip its been.

All stand please...

The EU is no longer to blame for everything. From now on, Brexit will be to blame for everything. People like you will be to blame for everything. We will continue to remind you.

- - - Updated - - -

the rock Gibraltar is now Schengen territory, Brexit in full swing

And we now have a border in effect in the Irish Sea. Those Brexit boys sure do know how to break up what little was left of The Empire.

[zealo]

Well... that's that then... after four and half long and, sometimes, painful years the transition period has come to an end and the UK is, after almost 50 years, now an independent nation once again.

Some will see this as a cause for celebration, others a time of sadness but most will breathe a sigh of relief that it is finally over but I prefer to optimistic and hope that 2021 will be the beginning of a new but different chapter in the UK/EU relationship.

Whatever your feelings on Brexit I wish you well and hope that you all have a better year than the last.

The UK never stopped being an independent nation in the first place.

Posts like this is why people believe you to be a brexit supporter.

[ranzino]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55497084

This is actually quite funny. If I, Latvian citizen without UK passport/visa/whatever, arrive from Latvia I will not have the passport check. If Dribbles, UK citizen with UK passport, arrives from London he will have it.

just prove you are from another Schengen member state, so some sort of ID is still a must.
but once you are in via Gibraltar, you are free to go up until North cape in Norway (not EU, but EFTA) if you so desire.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

And we now have a border in effect in the Irish Sea. Those Brexit boys sure do know how to break up what little was left of The Empire.

So is this the first international trade deal to make trading WITHIN the confines of a country more difficult?

The government has finally published its advice on trading with the EU and has some lovely flow-charts detailing which form and which inspection is done where and when. See here: https://www.gov.uk/government/public...perating-model

This is how Dribbles will sell his fish to the EU:



And this is the procedure for Nissan to import components for car assembly at the Sunderland plant:



Nice and simple.

[Pann]

The UK never stopped being an independent nation in the first place.

Posts like this is why people believe you to be a brexit supporter.

What??? That's the whole point of the EU... you know... member states give up a degree of independence to pool their resources - in a the whole is greater than the sum of its parts type way.

This is evident in many areas such as trade policy as Trump found out when Merkel had to explain why Germany could not do a trade deal with the US.

It is surprising given that you are from one of the, so called, Frugal Four and their recent very public disagreements with the EU over budgetary commitments that you are, seemingly, not aware of this.

[Kronik85]

What??? That's the whole point of the EU... you know... member states give up a degree of independence to pool their resources - in a the whole is greater than the sum of its parts type way.

This is evident in many areas such as trade policy as Trump found out when Merkel had to explain why Germany could not do a trade deal with the US.

It is surprising given that you are from one of the, so called, Frugal Four and their recent very public disagreements with the EU over budgetary commitments that you are, seemingly, not aware of this.

It's insincere to frame the post Brexit Britain as any more sovereign or independent than pre Brexit Britain. We have already started day 1 within the bounds of an FTA that functionally sees us without this much alluded to absolute sovereignty and we will probably start to see government ministers pivot to explaining how FTA's diminish sovereignty and that's not what they really promised in the first place, people are just misremembering or misinterpreted what the government really said...like visiting castles during lock down on your birthday.

Edit: Happy new year guys! Hope you have a better time of it this year if this has been a trying time.

[Dezerte]

What??? That's the whole point of the EU... you know... member states give up a degree of independence to pool their resources - in a the whole is greater than the sum of its parts type way.

This is evident in many areas such as trade policy as Trump found out when Merkel had to explain why Germany could not do a trade deal with the US.

It is surprising given that you are from one of the, so called, Frugal Four and their recent very public disagreements with the EU over budgetary commitments that you are, seemingly, not aware of this.

I think your initial post suggested/implied that the UK was not independent before, hence the confusion.

EDIT: What I mean is that it can be interpreted as "UK had no sovereignty before".

[Pann]

It's insincere to frame the post Brexit Britain as any more sovereign or independent than pre Brexit Britain. We have already started day 1 within the bounds of an FTA that functionally sees us without this much alluded to absolute sovereignty and we will probably start to see government ministers pivot to explaining how FTA's diminish sovereignty and that's not what they really promised in the first place, people are just misremembering or misinterpreted what the government really said...like visiting castles during your lock down on your birthday.

Is it? Really? Factually the UK is now independent whereas prior to the expiration of the transition period in many areas - trade, tax, budgets, etc - it was not.

As I said the point of the EU is that nations give up a degree of independence to magnify their own strengths. I made no comment on whether or not this was a good or bad thing and even went to lengths to say that some would see it one way whilst others would see it differently, the fact that people are, predictably, trying to argue otherwise and to twist my words in order make something out of nothing speaks volumes for how absolutely useless this thread has become.

Honestly I can't be bothered with another pathetic pile on and I have neither the time, energy or inclination to argue against the prevailing ignorance present in this thread with regard to the EU/UK FTA and the obligations it places on each other so I shall bid you Happy New Year.

[Specialka]

Except it was always independent.



Then why do you keep coming back to this thread if you can't handle being told you're wrong?

Well, he is right. The UK had to take into account the minimum requirement of the EU when talking about its policies. Now, they can do what they want. They are "free", though we will see in the next year how they fare.

Personally, I think they did a big mistake by leaving.

[Crispin]

Nothing screams INDEPENDENCE, than how the UK now have to move goods between NI and England.

[LeGin Tufnel]

All stand please...]

Oh, Mr D - I bet you couldn’t sing all the verses without a lyric sheet.

the UK is, after almost 50 years, now an independent nation once again.

It's just a classic Pann strawman. Changes to:

member states give up a degree of independence to pool their resources - in a the whole is greater than the sum of its parts type way..

Refuting a weaker version of an argument.

Pann (who’s had me on ignore now since I told them to fuck off) frustrates me as they’re clearly knowledgeable even to the point where I wonder if they had some kind of official role in this. However, I don’t think it’s pushing the boat out to suggest that Pann, on occasion, has been as much on the wind-up as Mr D. And the irony is that there are no #FBPE-type UK posters in this thread.

Anyway, IDD with the poster when they say the UK has to move forward. Hopefully, this will include electoral reform, the lack of which has been at the heart of many of the UK’s problems. Of course, though, it won’t. So, that’s why I’m broadly pessimistic.

Edit: Happy new year guys! Hope you have a better time of it this year if this has been a trying time.

You too

[dwertius]

Well, he is right. The UK had to take into account the minimum requirement of the EU when talking about its policies. Now, they can do what they want. They are "free", though we will see in the next year how they fare.

No. What he is saying is simply untrue, it has no basis in fact.

The EU is a voluntary organization where members agree to abide by certain policies in exchange for the benefits of european co-operation. That does not impact our independence. Legally speaking it is simply another trade deal with a group of countries.

This country, like every other country, belongs to a number of international trade associations, so we are not "free" in any sense even if you go along with the alarmingly stupid notion that international trade=less freedom.

The myth that people like Pann tend to perpetuate is that there was something magical and special about the EU that stopped us being independent as a nation, as opposed to any other international treaty. That is not true and never has been. But, if you truly believed international treaties compromised the UK's independence then you'd surely prioritize things like the presence of American military bases in the UK, our ridiculously one-sided extradition treaty with that same country, not to mention forcing its companies to pay their taxes in exchange for operating here. But the Brexiteers seemed to want even more of that so you have to seriously question their honesty when discussing independence.