Am i being toxic player?

[Tiwack]

Too many make it into content they have no business being in. It'd be alright if they were open to learn but many of them instantly go on the defensive when you prod their bubble and break the silence in chat. Like they're shocked to be interacting with other people. This is toxic and baffling they make it to endgame without human interaction in an mmo. Bringing back proving grounds for endgame content so players don't have to rely on rio when pugging would help, but it's also partly because there's so little danger in regular openworld content that players don't become accustomed to interupts and dodging ground-effects etc.

[Fidisko]

Going by the tone of your post: yes, you were. When you group up with randoms, expect random skill level. Next time, just say firmly (not with anger, just directly) that you are leaving because X aren't doing mechanics and you can't do everything yourself. You are entitled to leaving keys (and everyone is entitled into putting you on the blacklist but you wanna avoid those players anyway so whatever).

You should join a guild or make friends to remove the PUG factor, but judging by your attitude (skill aside, it reeks of "I'm better than all of you"), it's no wonder people avoid consistently playtime with you.

I disagree, we are talking about mythic +11 in here, so you are expected to know something, its like you are going HC raid you expect that people have experience from normal.

As they have experience from mythic+0 until+11. My attitude have flask,food,talents,know boss tactics is something i consider normal and responsible to do my best. So im not telling anyone im better i never even mentioned those above what i know and what i have, because its standard. If i do a mistake and i do them because sometimes healing is hard and i dont notice im standing in some shit, i apologise. But when someone clearly have absolute no clue what to do, he does not even mentioned that he/she dont know, its their irresponsibility towards the group itself. And if i call that person out and asking WHY? I want know why. Im not telling or calling them bad names or harsh words, we wiped i want to know why. He mentioned he didnt know tactic? I ask why you dont know? Again im asking. So i dont know where the hell are you getting "Im better than you attitude"

- - - Updated - - -

Too many make it into content they have no business being in. It'd be alright if they were open to learn but many of them instantly go on the defensive when you prod their bubble and break the silence in chat. Like they're shocked to be interacting with other people. This is toxic and baffling they make it to endgame without human interaction in an mmo. Bringing back proving grounds for endgame content so players don't have to rely on rio when pugging would help, but it's also partly because there's so little danger in regular openworld content that players don't become accustomed to interupts and dodging ground-effects etc.

Totally agree

- - - Updated - - -

This was in a +11, you shouldn't have to explain mechanics for people in a +11, going into any M+ above 10 without even knowing the basic mechanics is wasting time/energy/flasks/potions for 4 other people and a key, that's significantly more toxic than someone calling people out for mechanics.

Just saying "Hey guys, we wiped because I'm the only one doing mechanics" isn't toxic or talking down to people unless you just get butthurt that easily in which case you should probably get off the internet, or actually learn to play the game before you jump into higher difficulties that expect you to, you know, know how to play the game.

exactly thats how i feel.

[ShinyInfidel]

You're not wrong OP. It's a situation that occurs rather often these days, and is the major reason why I don't play anymore.

I, personally, didn't have a guild/bunch of friends that play WoW since like Legion days, therefore I was forced to PUG alot, most often my own keys. Now don't get me wrong here, I attempted to join guilds and build new bonds - just that didn't feel right, either people were going or I quit for one reason or another.

PUGs generally speaking have that lax attitude that if its not their own key - they don't even try. Why interrupt that tank slapper, right? You still get a chance at loot in the end box one way or another. EVEN IF YOU LEAVE THE GROUP and it finishes the run, you might get the loot. That attitude is the sole reason I had to tryhard to sky-high rio so I meet less such individuals, and even then, there were people that were failing basic stuff at 25-28 key levels.

Notice how Ion says just don't wipe in interview with Sloot. Shortly after the nerf to Spires of Ascension hits that reduces HP of mobs by 25-30% and even removes one of the abilities from their table. Thanks for reading I guess, I don't post often but since it was such a delicate issue I figured I'd rather do

[Orby]

Gaming culture in general is probably one of the worst fandoms out there with anything else geek culture, star wars, comics.

I think its best you try and make the best out of the community and leave out what others are trying to make it into.

[baskev]

Helo,

Ive read many times that wow community is very toxic, but what does toxicity even mean?

For me Toxic players are the ones that are blaming everyone for failing and ruining player experience on purpose. ( leaving groups without purpose, be mean, blaming everyone and just cry)

Yesterday i went 2x Mythic +11, i did buy flask/food, have correct talents and know each boss and trash mechanics and i know my job not to fail the group.
Because there are 4 more people who probably dont have all the time like me in the world and want to have things done. So its my responsibility for them as well to do as much as i can, not to fail.

And for me this is common sense. Now my experience from yesterday is that ppl didnt know tactics at all at the Other side Manastorm fight, me as a Healer deffused all the bombs, soak 2 crystals and they didnt stack on the Aoe from Malificient and im told them after wipe that im doing everything yet they have clearly no idea what to do here. DPS left and the group blamed me that he did because of me, because why am i even writing something?

its like are people really getting offended so easily? I did 150% job at the fight yet they did 50% so should i just be quiet and wipe?

Today same, 2/5 people had no idea what to do at +11, when i ask them why not read jornal before making/joining a group, im blamed that im taking the game really seriously and just "chill bruh". Ok i was quiet we wiped 5 times at one boss due to same mistakes, then i left.

For me, this is not toxicity but taking responsibily for your own actions and be responsible to the group members as well, and im not gonna carry someone else because he cant click dungeon journal and read 2 senteces. From my perspective they are toxic, they are ruining the group experience and blaming others attitude because they cannot admit they simply failed the boss,dungeon whatever and learn from it

What is your opinion?

Thanks

Without reading your post: If you need to make a forum post. its a high change that you are but does not mean you are so..... lets read your post.

What does it mean ( for me): Being vocal agressive without very good reason. Meaning talking down to people, act like your better and they are less. And or trying to ruin the other persons play time.
This can be done via text, making sure people can not get stuff ( loot), dragging mobs over a person fighting then leaving him/her with dozens npcs to deal with etc.


Mythic start: good. If you do something like that you should be prepared. And thats to be expected. If you want to have fun, do normal or hc dungeons.

Dungeon: It was their fault ( as far as your story goes). They should have know the tactics. Took make ages on that chain pull boss on hc mode because idiots did not want to read.
And nope you should not be quiet and wipe. I think the hard part of being nice in WoW or general speaking is that people ( like in real life, this forum etc ) project a lot of their own stuff into the situation.
And 2nd sitiuation and the "chill bruh" comment says it all.
You either have ( for the most part) HC people who do everything perfect and blame you for every mistake, or people who take nothing serious.
I think its a modern younger people mentality.
They have a on/off switch. Moderation etc does not exist.

So you where not wrong.

[Fidisko]

Without reading your post: If you need to make a forum post. its a high change that you are but does not mean you are so..... lets read your post.

What does it mean ( for me): Being vocal agressive without very good reason. Meaning talking down to people, act like your better and they are less. And or trying to ruin the other persons play time.
This can be done via text, making sure people can not get stuff ( loot), dragging mobs over a person fighting then leaving him/her with dozens npcs to deal with etc.


Mythic start: good. If you do something like that you should be prepared. And thats to be expected. If you want to have fun, do normal or hc dungeons.

Dungeon: It was their fault ( as far as your story goes). They should have know the tactics. Took make ages on that chain pull boss on hc mode because idiots did not want to read.
And nope you should not be quiet and wipe. I think the hard part of being nice in WoW or general speaking is that people ( like in real life, this forum etc ) project a lot of their own stuff into the situation.
And 2nd sitiuation and the "chill bruh" comment says it all.
You either have ( for the most part) HC people who do everything perfect and blame you for every mistake, or people who take nothing serious.
I think its a modern younger people mentality.
They have a on/off switch. Moderation etc does not exist.

So you where not wrong.

Thanks appreciate it

[apelsinjuice]

If your side of the Story is true, no you are not.

However, its in most cases also the "How" you say stuff. With the way the Community overall behaves in PuGs, even decent players most likely shut off, if you come across rude.

E.g. If the first three sentences I read from a PuG are along the lines: "WTF", "FFS" or something else. I generally Ignore these people.

On the Other hand however, I´m confused how these people get 10+ stones without knowing what to do. Feels weird to me.

this, OPs story is most likely not the 100% truth

[Azerate]

Helo,

Ive read many times that wow community is very toxic, but what does toxicity even mean?

For me Toxic players are the ones that are blaming everyone for failing and ruining player experience on purpose. ( leaving groups without purpose, be mean, blaming everyone and just cry)

Yesterday i went 2x Mythic +11, i did buy flask/food, have correct talents and know each boss and trash mechanics and i know my job not to fail the group.
Because there are 4 more people who probably dont have all the time like me in the world and want to have things done. So its my responsibility for them as well to do as much as i can, not to fail.

And for me this is common sense. Now my experience from yesterday is that ppl didnt know tactics at all at the Other side Manastorm fight, me as a Healer deffused all the bombs, soak 2 crystals and they didnt stack on the Aoe from Malificient and im told them after wipe that im doing everything yet they have clearly no idea what to do here. DPS left and the group blamed me that he did because of me, because why am i even writing something?

its like are people really getting offended so easily? I did 150% job at the fight yet they did 50% so should i just be quiet and wipe?

Today same, 2/5 people had no idea what to do at +11, when i ask them why not read jornal before making/joining a group, im blamed that im taking the game really seriously and just "chill bruh". Ok i was quiet we wiped 5 times at one boss due to same mistakes, then i left.

For me, this is not toxicity but taking responsibily for your own actions and be responsible to the group members as well, and im not gonna carry someone else because he cant click dungeon journal and read 2 senteces. From my perspective they are toxic, they are ruining the group experience and blaming others attitude because they cannot admit they simply failed the boss,dungeon whatever and learn from it

What is your opinion?

Thanks

No one gets offended from just hearing what the tactics of the encounter are.

If they got offended and left, you were probably a dick about it, just conveniently left it out to get some validation from the forum posters. I've seen this kind of a situation way too many times. Some people believe that writing eg. "what are you doing idiot" is an acceptable way to speak to another person and are weirded out that they don't want to politely discuss the situation at hand after such an opener.

[intenz]

Manastorm fight is literally the easiest boss in all of Shadowlands so far, how can people be so clueless as to not know what to do? It should be dps to defuse the bombs, not the healer.

Eh I wouldn't say that at all. Every group I'm in someone gets hit by the stun laser thing. In that dungeon alone hakkar and the bomb bitch are easier.

[rodinspfc]

All I read was "Im playing perfectly and making no mistakes, look at all I did and you guys still made me fail". Yep, you are toxic.

[david0925]

I don't know what you said exactly, but if you just pointed out mistakes like "melee needs to do that mechanic, ranged needs to do this, tank needs to drag boss here, etc", and they still got mad, that's not on you.

If you said something along the lines of "you guys need to dodge some stuff, I'm healing my asses off while doing these mechanics but I can't keep up." You will tilt people. Personally it doesn't bother me, but some people are extremely sensitive and will be triggered by the slightest hint that you are belittling them, which you might have been in the heats of your frustration. Again, without screenshots of the entire conversation it's hard to say.

If you have to pug and have to correct the team's strategy, i suggest sounding as neutral as possible, and even in a suggesting tone such as "i think it's better if Ranged gets that mechanic". Yes, I do think people are way too sensitive on the internet, but at the same time, if being a bit more considerate gets you what you want I think everyone wins in that regard with no additional cost to you.

[Gestopft]

but if you see that we wipe 2 times on the same boss on the same mechanics, isnt better to tell whats wrong? i was quiet and we died 5 times and then i left. Im responsible for my wording and text i write to you as a person, in not responsible for your action to leave the group because i cant accept the message.

So should i rather be like... omg dont write anything because maybe he/she will left and be ofended.

I think the best you can do is just talk about what needs to be done better in a "we" sense. Instead of "you need to do (x)" say "we need to do (x) better." "(X) is getting us, I think we can all make sure we (y) and that will help"

There was a time in BfA where I was doing Siege- a dungeon I didn't do all that much- and doing it at the highest key I'd done it before, so problems came up in the last boss that I hadn't run into before. We wiped several times, and it was obvious that I was struggling, and one of the DPS- instead of raging at me- simply said "how can we help you?" And it worked.

Pointing fingers never helps. Offering help, making at about the group instead of an individual, can. But people do have to be open to improvement. Not everybody wants to hear it.

[Redroniksre]

I disagree, we are talking about mythic +11 in here, so you are expected to know something, its like you are going HC raid you expect that people have experience from normal.

As they have experience from mythic+0 until+11. My attitude have flask,food,talents,know boss tactics is something i consider normal and responsible to do my best. So im not telling anyone im better i never even mentioned those above what i know and what i have, because its standard. If i do a mistake and i do them because sometimes healing is hard and i dont notice im standing in some shit, i apologise. But when someone clearly have absolute no clue what to do, he does not even mentioned that he/she dont know, its their irresponsibility towards the group itself. And if i call that person out and asking WHY? I want know why. Im not telling or calling them bad names or harsh words, we wiped i want to know why. He mentioned he didnt know tactic? I ask why you dont know? Again im asking. So i dont know where the hell are you getting "Im better than you attitude"

- - - Updated - - -



Totally agree

- - - Updated - - -



exactly thats how i feel.

Yeah, i don't think you were really being toxic. The content is high up enough that they -should- know the mechanics. Some people here have said there is no such thing as toxic but that is incredibly wrong, some really shouldn't be allowed to play with others. But this isn't normal, heroic, or even M0 dungeons where you should expect there to be wipes and rather sub par players.

[Nite92]

You were toxic because you were basically telling them how great you are. Instead of telling them everything you are doing, tell them the things they should be looking out for and how to do the fight. Talking down to them makes you the toxic one.

Uhh, you are responsible to inform yourself about the dungeon. I am not talking about mistakes, I am talking about actually not knowing stuff. If you join a +11 it is expected from you to know whats going on. I had a resto druid in a +14 DoS that was "focusing on his dps", while the hybrids had to stop dpsing and cast heals to not die without a SINGLE hot on them. People like this do not deserve a friendly reminder, they deserve to be told to stop trolling and not waste the time of other human beings.

- - - Updated - - -

Helo,

Ive read many times that wow community is very toxic, but what does toxicity even mean?

For me Toxic players are the ones that are blaming everyone for failing and ruining player experience on purpose. ( leaving groups without purpose, be mean, blaming everyone and just cry)

Yesterday i went 2x Mythic +11, i did buy flask/food, have correct talents and know each boss and trash mechanics and i know my job not to fail the group.
Because there are 4 more people who probably dont have all the time like me in the world and want to have things done. So its my responsibility for them as well to do as much as i can, not to fail.

And for me this is common sense. Now my experience from yesterday is that ppl didnt know tactics at all at the Other side Manastorm fight, me as a Healer deffused all the bombs, soak 2 crystals and they didnt stack on the Aoe from Malificient and im told them after wipe that im doing everything yet they have clearly no idea what to do here. DPS left and the group blamed me that he did because of me, because why am i even writing something?

its like are people really getting offended so easily? I did 150% job at the fight yet they did 50% so should i just be quiet and wipe?

Today same, 2/5 people had no idea what to do at +11, when i ask them why not read jornal before making/joining a group, im blamed that im taking the game really seriously and just "chill bruh". Ok i was quiet we wiped 5 times at one boss due to same mistakes, then i left.

For me, this is not toxicity but taking responsibily for your own actions and be responsible to the group members as well, and im not gonna carry someone else because he cant click dungeon journal and read 2 senteces. From my perspective they are toxic, they are ruining the group experience and blaming others attitude because they cannot admit they simply failed the boss,dungeon whatever and learn from it

What is your opinion?

Thanks

Uhh, its the healers job to diffuse bombs? And why would you need to stack for the AoE, if that goes through you already fucked up earlier. Since you seem to not know that, I kinda dont believe that you did "everything properly".

[rrayy]

Uhh, you are responsible to inform yourself about the dungeon. I am not talking about mistakes, I am talking about actually not knowing stuff. If you join a +11 it is expected from you to know whats going on. I had a resto druid in a +14 DoS that was "focusing on his dps", while the hybrids had to stop dpsing and cast heals to not die without a SINGLE hot on them. People like this do not deserve a friendly reminder, they deserve to be told to stop trolling and not waste the time of other human beings.

You are the toxic one. Who made you sole arbiter of what everyone should know? You help them out first. IF they still don't do things correctly, then you kick them. Anyone who comes into any group with a "holier than thou" attitude like you demonstrated should be kicked.

[Acidbaron]

Going by the tone of your post: yes, you were. When you group up with randoms, expect random skill level. Next time, just say firmly (not with anger, just directly) that you are leaving because X aren't doing mechanics and you can't do everything yourself. You are entitled to leaving keys (and everyone is entitled into putting you on the blacklist but you wanna avoid those players anyway so whatever).

You should join a guild or make friends to remove the PUG factor, but judging by your attitude (skill aside, it reeks of "I'm better than all of you"), it's no wonder people avoid consistently playtime with you.

No he wasn't, this was a +11 not a regular mythic run. Basic mechanics were not done.

[Merlunie]

Going by the tone of your post: yes, you were. When you group up with randoms, expect random skill level. Next time, just say firmly (not with anger, just directly) that you are leaving because X aren't doing mechanics and you can't do everything yourself. You are entitled to leaving keys (and everyone is entitled into putting you on the blacklist but you wanna avoid those players anyway so whatever).

You should join a guild or make friends to remove the PUG factor, but judging by your attitude (skill aside, it reeks of "I'm better than all of you"), it's no wonder people avoid consistently playtime with you.

No when I join a group with an 11 keys I assume they were good enough to 1 chest the 10, 2 chest the 8, or three chest the 7.

If they bought a carry or bricked the key 3 times or whatever, that should be included in the group description. If you suck and I try to help you it’s not me being toxic, it’s you being a baby and trying to get people to boost you through group content.

- - - Updated - - -

On a side note, you seem like the kind of competent player I’d like to group with. PM me your btag and let’s do some keys sometime!

[Ragnarohk]

The way it's handled is also as important.

If the warlock is failing a mechanic, toxicity would be to insult/degrade the player or instant kick without a warning. Instead, ask them if there is a reason as to what is happening, offer help and if it can't be handled properly then remove such player while letting him know why.

Other way around. If the warlock is struggling, they should be communicative about the issue, ask for help and if needed, leave the group in an understanding way.

I've left a few raids after failing mechanics constantly.

"I'm sorry guys, i'm having issues with ABC, i tried my best but it seems i'm pulling you down. Thank you for the invite, good luck and have a good day" and you leave.

"Hey warlock, it seems you are having an issue with ABC. Maybe you can try doing XYZ, we will call it out in Discord. We can try a few times, but if you can't handle it then we will have to replace you"

Why can't people be like this?

[Merlunie]

Too many make it into content they have no business being in. It'd be alright if they were open to learn but many of them instantly go on the defensive when you prod their bubble and break the silence in chat. Like they're shocked to be interacting with other people. This is toxic and baffling they make it to endgame without human interaction in an mmo. Bringing back proving grounds for endgame content so players don't have to rely on rio when pugging would help, but it's also partly because there's so little danger in regular openworld content that players don't become accustomed to interupts and dodging ground-effects etc.

Ding ding ding

[Chromell]

Today same, 2/5 people had no idea what to do at +11, when i ask them why not read jornal before making/joining a group, im blamed that im taking the game really seriously and just "chill bruh". Ok i was quiet we wiped 5 times at one boss due to same mistakes, then i left.

For me, this is not toxicity but taking responsibily for your own actions and be responsible to the group members as well, and im not gonna carry someone else because he cant click dungeon journal and read 2 senteces. From my perspective they are toxic, they are ruining the group experience and blaming others attitude because they cannot admit they simply failed the boss,dungeon whatever and learn from it

What is your opinion?

Thanks

You're not in the wrong. If people don't know what to do in a fight and expect the healer to miraculously heal through massive damage output, it's their own fault. I'd say it's the same thing if you were doing, let's say, Siege of Boralus, and the DPS don't focus the tentacle that slams the ground on the last boss and just attack the one holding the repair man. You can't heal through that.

As for the 5 wipes in a boss, unless it was an actual healing problem, I'd say it'd be very unlikely the boss would die, especially after 5 failed tries. The key was obviously broken. And no player is obligated to endure incompetence or unwillingness to learn from others, especially when there's a time limit involved. I'd have done the same thing.