Should TBC come with a gold wipe? Why or why not?

[Uoyredrum]

I think a wipe is a bad idea but it should be limited. Like maybe you can only transfer 10-20k or something like that. That's plenty of gold to start out with (more than most will have) but isn't outrageous enough to wreck the economy. Then again if blizzard continues to do nothing about gold sellers and bots it won't really matter what they do.

[Synical123]

So here's the question: Should Blizzard destroy the work of the people who are playing right now, on the off chance that people who aren't playing right now might come play in TBC? In my opinion, no. People who are playing right now are their audience. Wiping their effort is a good way to alienate a LOT of people, and they don't want to do that.

Yes you should destroy SOME work by SOME people in order to save the quality of the game. If there is so much gold in the game (even right now) to where it’s so cheap on third party sites that there is no reason to do anything else to get gold, then why would you just be ‘okay’ with that? I looked up one server for someone on here and there was just 16 players (obviously botters) with something like 150 million gold. The issues that arise from just going with the flow far far far far outweigh the hissy fit that a couple of people are going to have because they had their (probably botted or bought) gold deleted.

[durenas]

Yes you should destroy SOME work by SOME people in order to save the quality of the game. If there is so much gold in the game (even right now) to where it’s so cheap on third party sites that there is no reason to do anything else to get gold, then why would you just be ‘okay’ with that? I looked up one server for someone on here and there was just 16 players (obviously botters) with something like 150 million gold. The issues that arise from just going with the flow far far far far outweigh the hissy fit that a couple of people are going to have because they had their (probably botted or bought) gold deleted.

The problem is, at what point do you draw the line, where do you say 'this much is too much'? That's a rabbit hole where, if I were a dev, I wouldn't even want to go there. The problem is, no matter what amount of money you choose as the cut-off point, someone, somewhere is going to complain 'oh why did I lose all my gold when that guy over there split his gold across all his accounts and has 10 times what I have? This game is pay 2 win! FFS!' Partial wipes are worse than total wipes. Players will complain, there will be drama. If the devs do nothing, no one will complain.

If people want to buy gold, that's their lookout. I don't participate in that economy at all, and I do just fine. When TBC comes out, a lot of the consumables will be nerfed, and the farming requirements will be reduced.

What blizzard should do is to ban the people selling gold. Investigate all those big money accounts and if they're selling gold, ban them. Don't interfere with legit players at all.

[Synical123]

The problem is, at what point do you draw the line, where do you say 'this much is too much'? That's a rabbit hole where, if I were a dev, I wouldn't even want to go there. The problem is, no matter what amount of money you choose as the cut-off point, someone, somewhere is going to complain 'oh why did I lose all my gold when that guy over there split his gold across all his accounts and has 10 times what I have? This game is pay 2 win! FFS!' Partial wipes are worse than total wipes. Players will complain, there will be drama. If the devs do nothing, no one will complain.

If people want to buy gold, that's their lookout. I don't participate in that economy at all, and I do just fine. When TBC comes out, a lot of the consumables will be nerfed, and the farming requirements will be reduced.

What blizzard should do is to ban the people selling gold. Investigate all those big money accounts and if they're selling gold, ban them. Don't interfere with legit players at all.

They should ban and take care of bots better, but that damage is done and needs to be taken care of.

Also your argument of “well there’s no perfect number to cut it off and someone somewhere is going to be mad so let’s just keep the game ruined” just quite frankly isn’t that strong of an argument in my eyes.

With this logic, if there was an item in the game that one shot everyone within a 40 yard radius, we should just leave it in the game because someone earned and we don’t want to make them mad.

[durenas]

They should ban and take care of bots better, but that damage is done and needs to be taken care of.

Also your argument of “well there’s no perfect number to cut it off and someone somewhere is going to be mad so let’s just keep the game ruined” just quite frankly isn’t that strong of an argument in my eyes.

With this logic, if there was an item in the game that one shot everyone within a 40 yard radius, we should just leave it in the game because someone earned and we don’t want to make them mad.

There is one. It's called Martin Fury. https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Martin_Fury

"In April 2009, player Karatechop from the guild <The Marvel Family> on Vek'nilash (US) received this item from a guild member (Leroyspeltz) who had been granted this item through the mistake of a game master.

It was used fourteen times in Ulduar, Eye of Eternity, and Obsidian Sanctum, where he was awarded several achievements for "killing" bosses, before his account was subsequently banned by Blizzard Entertainment.

Following the ban, all members of the guild were also given a twenty-four hour lockdown, regardless of their involvement."

Players who earned their gold legitimately(through non-ban-worthy activities) should not feel like they could lose their hard-earned progress at the whim of a GM. I can think of no better way to get people to abandon a game than to invalidate weeks or months of effort.

[Eternal2u]

No because ive grinded my ass off for the gold on my charcter and if i lose the 10kish worth of gold ill be fucking pissed

[MoanaLisa]

There's a part of me that thinks it should come with a gold wipe but the other side of this is that flying was so expensive in BC that this really seems unfair as well.

Personally I hope they keep Classic/Vanilla and BC apart so that Classic stays like it is.

I suppose the easiest thing is to release 2.0 as it was (including the BC versions of the 1-60 areas) . That would mean leveling again and the rest. That seems to be the simplest way to go about it.

[chrisnumbers]

The problem is, at what point do you draw the line, where do you say 'this much is too much'?

I don't know where a hard line would be, but what if we had evidence that 16 people own 150 million gold on my server? What would you say to that?

[durenas]

I don't know where a hard line would be, but what if we had evidence that 16 people own 150 million gold on my server? What would you say to that?

If the gold is being bought or sold for real money, wipe it and ban the accounts. Otherwise, leave it alone. It's not doing anything being stored in those accounts.

[Synical123]

If the gold is being bought or sold for real money, wipe it and ban the accounts. Otherwise, leave it alone. It's not doing anything being stored in those accounts.

That’s not the point of what he is saying. That gold he is referring to is sitting on gold sellers (go check out any website they will show you their stock pile). This gold isn’t just sitting there either, it being purchased and moved around onto the server where legit players are using it.

Let’s say all these guys for whatever reason pushed all this gold out today, and then you ban them, did it really change anything? No because that gold is now in circulation. There’s accounts on some of these sites that have over 100k transactions. I realize some may be on retail as well, but god man that’s a LOT of people buying gold. And this is just one seller I’m referring to on a single website. There’s a ton of these accounts with hundreds or thousands of transactions.

The people who buy gold, keep buying gold and don’t stop. And they normally don’t risk their account being sectioned off of buying 1k gold. Especially considering gold is being sold at sometimes less than a freaking penny. You can go and buy enough gold for an epic flyer for less than $100 right now because of how much inflation there is at this moment.

You know when tbc hits, these sellers are going to make BANK on all these people who return and don’t have money so they just go out and drop 100 dollars for everything they need. And if you let the inflation transition over, gold will become even more cheap and the problem will increase ten fold.

[Coffeh]

So here's the question: Should Blizzard destroy the work of the people who are playing right now, on the off chance that people who aren't playing right now might come play in TBC? In my opinion, no. People who are playing right now are their audience. Wiping their effort is a good way to alienate a LOT of people, and they don't want to do that.

They wouldn't be destroying anything. And players wouldn't be losing anything. IF Blizz keeps the two games separate, then those characters will continue to exist in Classic with all the things they've acquired and earned.

[Jurwi]

Yes, because I don't have much of it. I'm pretty sure most people voting 'Yes' do it for the same reason even if they won't say it.

[AeneasBK]

They wouldn't be destroying anything. And players wouldn't be losing anything. IF Blizz keeps the two games separate, then those characters will continue to exist in Classic with all the things they've acquired and earned.

Quite, the argument is tantamount to players saying "When I start classic I can bring my retail gold with me right, otherwise you're deleting what I worked hard for!" but then, most of the arguments in this disturbingly long thread have been just as retarded.

[durenas]

That’s not the point of what he is saying. That gold he is referring to is sitting on gold sellers (go check out any website they will show you their stock pile). This gold isn’t just sitting there either, it being purchased and moved around onto the server where legit players are using it.

Let’s say all these guys for whatever reason pushed all this gold out today, and then you ban them, did it really change anything? No because that gold is now in circulation. There’s accounts on some of these sites that have over 100k transactions. I realize some may be on retail as well, but god man that’s a LOT of people buying gold. And this is just one seller I’m referring to on a single website. There’s a ton of these accounts with hundreds or thousands of transactions.

The people who buy gold, keep buying gold and don’t stop. And they normally don’t risk their account being sectioned off of buying 1k gold. Especially considering gold is being sold at sometimes less than a freaking penny. You can go and buy enough gold for an epic flyer for less than $100 right now because of how much inflation there is at this moment.

You know when tbc hits, these sellers are going to make BANK on all these people who return and don’t have money so they just go out and drop 100 dollars for everything they need. And if you let the inflation transition over, gold will become even more cheap and the problem will increase ten fold.

Well, like I said, if they're doing RMT, then they should be banned. And blizzard has records of every transaction, every mail. They can track the gold. It's not even hard. So, I would go further and say ban the buyers as well, and get rid of the gold that was used in RMT.

But what it seems like you're continuously ignoring is that if prices are high, people can sell items on the AH for the high price and make more money. If all the money is deleted and the prices are suppressed, it will be much harder for new players to make that much money quickly.

epic flying prices are static. deleting all the gold would just make things more difficult for everyone, and I wouldn't want to play on such a server.

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They wouldn't be destroying anything. And players wouldn't be losing anything. IF Blizz keeps the two games separate, then those characters will continue to exist in Classic with all the things they've acquired and earned.

I honestly don't know what such a system would look like. It seems like players could abuse it somehow, so there would have to be hard restrictions on transfers from classic to classic TBC, but I wouldn't have any problems with it, as long as they can make sure it can't be abused.

Personally, though, I think the simplest solution(and the most likely one) is that Blizzard will simply turn existing servers into TBC ones. I might be wrong, and there's stuff in the poll to suggest they're considering dividing but... I recall being on a new server for TBC. The suppressed market was bad. Prices were low, the market was sluggish and it took a very very long time to get epic flying. I don't wanna try that again, which is why I'm saving up my gold now.

[Relapses]

Well, like I said, if they're doing RMT, then they should be banned. And blizzard has records of every transaction, every mail. They can track the gold. It's not even hard. So, I would go further and say ban the buyers as well, and get rid of the gold that was used in RMT.

But what it seems like you're continuously ignoring is that if prices are high, people can sell items on the AH for the high price and make more money. If all the money is deleted and the prices are suppressed, it will be much harder for new players to make that much money quickly.

epic flying prices are static. deleting all the gold would just make things more difficult for everyone, and I wouldn't want to play on such a server.

Man, I'm sure there's a WoW dev reading this thinking to themselves, "Duh, why didn't we just ban all RMT????"

I'll give you a hint: It's because it's not nearly as easy as you seem to think it is. All gold is not able to be tracked and even if it was, there are so many innocuous reasons innocent players may come across illegitimately obtained gold that your utopian strategy of deleting all RMT gold is laughably short-sighted. If it were that easy, it wouldn't be a fucking problem.

[Synical123]

Well, like I said, if they're doing RMT, then they should be banned. And blizzard has records of every transaction, every mail. They can track the gold. It's not even hard. So, I would go further and say ban the buyers as well, and get rid of the gold that was used in RMT.

But what it seems like you're continuously ignoring is that if prices are high, people can sell items on the AH for the high price and make more money. If all the money is deleted and the prices are suppressed, it will be much harder for new players to make that much money quickly.

epic flying prices are static. deleting all the gold would just make things more difficult for everyone, and I wouldn't want to play on such a server.

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I honestly don't know what such a system would look like. It seems like players could abuse it somehow, so there would have to be hard restrictions on transfers from classic to classic TBC, but I wouldn't have any problems with it, as long as they can make sure it can't be abused.

Personally, though, I think the simplest solution(and the most likely one) is that Blizzard will simply turn existing servers into TBC ones. I might be wrong, and there's stuff in the poll to suggest they're considering dividing but... I recall being on a new server for TBC. The suppressed market was bad. Prices were low, the market was sluggish and it took a very very long time to get epic flying. I don't wanna try that again, which is why I'm saving up my gold now.

I’m truly not trying to sound rude, but this post really highlights that you have absolutely no clue how anything works in this game.

[Ragedaug]

Classic TBC servers should not be connected to Classic Vanilla servers in the first place, so there should be no gold to wipe.

[tikcol]

Yes we should wipe all the gold.

You can farm it again if you wish but wipe all gold.

Make the bots work again.

[Rhelyo]

This thread is plain useless. I mean people wanted a Classic experience and Blizzard finally delivered classic servers. Now Blizzard announced that TBC is coming. In what way do you think the TBC servers will be linked to the Classic ones? This would only make a retail copy which eventually follow up with Wrath and all other expansions.
No. What i think they will do is keep Classic as it is and make new servers specifically for TBC which make your characters either start from lvl 1 or lvl 58. This will make people who like old expansions happy by going back to their desired experience whenever they want.
Unless im mistaken and they did announce that TBC will be linked to Classic which imo its a fail. People wanted vanilla they delivered.People wants TBC it should be separate servers dedicated for it.
What makes you think that in 10 years time people wont be hit by nostalgia and again demand classic servers what then? By having separate servers for each expansion will make everyone happy in long term.

[Mardux]

They should ban and take care of bots better, but that damage is done and needs to be taken care of.

Also your argument of “well there’s no perfect number to cut it off and someone somewhere is going to be mad so let’s just keep the game ruined” just quite frankly isn’t that strong of an argument in my eyes.

With this logic, if there was an item in the game that one shot everyone within a 40 yard radius, we should just leave it in the game because someone earned and we don’t want to make them mad.

It might not be that strong in your eyes, but its still a better argument than your strawman and your ridiculous hyperbole. But at least your name is apt, you are clearly only motivated by your self-interest and not the health of the game or the community.

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I’m truly not trying to sound rude, but this post really highlights that you have absolutely no clue how anything works in this game.

"With all due respect, [says something disrespectful]"

And btw, your posts continue to highlight that you have "absolutely no clue" how inflation, supply and demand, or basic economics works.