Am i being toxic player?

[Dastreus]

imo best way to handle is to just explain the mechanics. Not tell them to read the journal. If they still bail or tell you to chill, they are toxic.

[Kaver]

You were toxic because you were basically telling them how great you are. Instead of telling them everything you are doing, tell them the things they should be looking out for and how to do the fight. Talking down to them makes you the toxic one.

Are you never allowed to talk down to people without being toxic? I mean, if someone joins a +11 group without knowing any tactics then I would say they deserve being talked down to.

[ellieg]

Did you say "hey guys, this mechanic does this. Make sure you do this"

Or did you say "im doing everything cause you guys have no idea wtf you are doing. Learn how to fucking play or don't try and do high keys"

[Fidisko]

Uhh, you are responsible to inform yourself about the dungeon. I am not talking about mistakes, I am talking about actually not knowing stuff. If you join a +11 it is expected from you to know whats going on. I had a resto druid in a +14 DoS that was "focusing on his dps", while the hybrids had to stop dpsing and cast heals to not die without a SINGLE hot on them. People like this do not deserve a friendly reminder, they deserve to be told to stop trolling and not waste the time of other human beings.

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Uhh, its the healers job to diffuse bombs? And why would you need to stack for the AoE, if that goes through you already fucked up earlier. Since you seem to not know that, I kinda dont believe that you did "everything properly".

Are u serious? if there are 4 bombs and each is going different way, its healer job to run around whole arena and click on it? if the bomb is near ranged dps and im on opposite site of him , i should run to him? common mate...

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No when I join a group with an 11 keys I assume they were good enough to 1 chest the 10, 2 chest the 8, or three chest the 7.

If they bought a carry or bricked the key 3 times or whatever, that should be included in the group description. If you suck and I try to help you it’s not me being toxic, it’s you being a baby and trying to get people to boost you through group content.

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On a side note, you seem like the kind of competent player I’d like to group with. PM me your btag and let’s do some keys sometime!

Sure : ) Fidiak#1681

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Did you say "hey guys, this mechanic does this. Make sure you do this"

Or did you say "im doing everything cause you guys have no idea wtf you are doing. Learn how to fucking play or don't try and do high keys"

what i said was : guys, common i cant handle healing and do all the the mechanics alone, please help on next pull. ( no response at all) ( next pull same thing) then DPS left and tank "thanked me for being a dick and thats why dps left "

[cparle87]

I think the best you can do is just talk about what needs to be done better in a "we" sense. Instead of "you need to do (x)" say "we need to do (x) better." "(X) is getting us, I think we can all make sure we (y) and that will help"

There was a time in BfA where I was doing Siege- a dungeon I didn't do all that much- and doing it at the highest key I'd done it before, so problems came up in the last boss that I hadn't run into before. We wiped several times, and it was obvious that I was struggling, and one of the DPS- instead of raging at me- simply said "how can we help you?" And it worked.

Pointing fingers never helps. Offering help, making at about the group instead of an individual, can. But people do have to be open to improvement. Not everybody wants to hear it.

That is some incredible advice, my friend. Using "you" is always inherently accusatory even if you're otherwise completely civil. Using "we" takes any blame off an individual.

[Rinaul]

If your side of the Story is true, no you are not.

However, its in most cases also the "How" you say stuff. With the way the Community overall behaves in PuGs, even decent players most likely shut off, if you come across rude.

E.g. If the first three sentences I read from a PuG are along the lines: "WTF", "FFS" or something else. I generally Ignore these people.

On the Other hand however, I´m confused how these people get 10+ stones without knowing what to do. Feels weird to me.

You can stumble you way to a +10 depending on affixes and gear/op comp/classes of group. Like having a uh dk and ww monk to just brute force through some things.

[Rusken]

I don't believe you're a toxic player, based on this thread.

I agree with everyone saying if it's a 10+ key, there's really no excuses for continuously not doing mechanics properly. If someone fucks up, that's fine. No one's perfect and shit happens sometimes. If they fuck up in the same way again it's usually because they don't know what's happening and it needs to be pointed out.
People like this, 9 times out of 10 believe they're doing everything perfectly and it can't possibly be their fault that the group wiped. They get offended when the idea that it's their fault is brought up.

Unfortunately, the general mindset of WoW players has shifted to "The game's casual therefore there are no consequences for blindly entering difficult content and just expecting to get carried by others." And most of the times you do try to help people, you're labeled as an elitist who takes the game way too seriously.

I'm of the mindset of "If I'm not 100% confident in my ability to handle everything I'm supposed to, I'm not comfortable joining a group for that content unless it's with friends/guildies who are keen to help me learn and okay with me fucking up."
I'll never pug a key that I don't know back to front, in and out and upside down because I'm honestly terrified of being the weak link that ruins a key. The majority of players these days feel no responsibility for their gameplay because "It's just a game lol".

[Nite92]

You are the toxic one. Who made you sole arbiter of what everyone should know? You help them out first. IF they still don't do things correctly, then you kick them. Anyone who comes into any group with a "holier than thou" attitude like you demonstrated should be kicked.

I doubt that is toxic to expect someone to know what is going on if he has done this dungeon 20 times already. By not knowing whats going on you literally cut the rewards at the end of the dungeon in half. Isn't that narcissitic? It is ok to not know what is going on, but then you HAVE to learn about a dungeon, if you arent an asshole and like to reduce loot people get.

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Are u serious? if there are 4 bombs and each is going different way, its healer job to run around whole arena and click on it? if the bomb is near ranged dps and im on opposite site of him , i should run to him? common mate...

If the dps are playing properly, this is exactly what you are doing, yes. Just like the healer does the lab in mots.

[Fidisko]

anyway, thank you all for your response, i read each one of them and value your opinion, i think there are 2 sets of people in here and the crossroads here are "expectation from others" and "way of communication", i agree that if i go to pug, i should not have high expectation no matter the key and maybe start using sentence as "we"and dont "you" . Anyway the best for me, would be to find some stable ppl and friends in game, rather then randoms.

About the toxicity, the majority of people agree with me that im not toxic and i think for me be Responsible and Toxic are 2 different things as i mentioned before.

Responsibility to others : do my best to prepare for content with other people, because if i am weak link i will waste time of other 4 people and if i am the weak link and screw up i should apologize and ask questions what did i do wrong? I think people have right to ask why did u fail, if you alone wont admit you screw up and of course they should ask you in proper way.

[blankfaced]

I don't think toxic players ask themselves if they're being toxic players.

[Stormwolf64]

I totally agree, if im going +11 i expected everyone to be skilled or atleast know fights, im not any pro player or anything, but im able to admit when i fail, i dont know every spell the mobs are casting, but i heal, help dps, use pots, have CD management, because i saw one video from pro players how to correctly play mythic as Resto shaman this is what i have invested 20 minutes on youtube to save multiple of hours of others.

From communication PoV im not mean, not writing swear words, im just asking questions : Why did you die, why u dont know the mechanics? Why not read it or say before we pull that you need to reassure maybe you dont remember eveything from the boss fight, so rather say it before we pull, rather spend 20 sec of explaing what to do instead of wiping 5 ppl and fail to achive it in time.

But i guess i really need to find stable group of ppl and not playing with randoms.


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but if you see that we wipe 2 times on the same boss on the same mechanics, isnt better to tell whats wrong? i was quiet and we died 5 times and then i left. Im responsible for my wording and text i write to you as a person, in not responsible for your action to leave the group because i cant accept the message.

So should i rather be like... omg dont write anything because maybe he/she will left and be ofended.

Tell them what they do wrong.. That is definitely rich. This is how it goes in wow. "WTF ARE YOU DOING?!?" "Fucking mage/tank/healer learn to play before joining xxx" "Delete your character xxx, you suck" and a shitton of crap like this. Can't remember the last time someone was civil about actually helping people who struggle a bit. Always the same crap, and you guys have to take responsibility. I know most people here are guilty of this. When this crap becomes commonplace then people will not lend a single ear to anything you try to teach them. They'll either tell you to fuck off, insult you back in creative ways or just ignore you flat out.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

I noticed most toxic behavior is based upon assumption. Tank assumes everyone knows exactly what they are going to pull and where they are going to LOS things and no one does. Healer assumes when they are at 6% mana the tank will stop when no one does. DPS assumes someone else will interrupt the spell and no one does. Then when it causes a wipe and often time wastes everyone's time everyone assumes they were in the right. A lot of people get really defensive at this point. People trying to make a point say it is "why you made when we interact in an MMO" type crap. The question really is why didn't anyone interact BEFORE a problem happened to prevent it and when the problem happens the first interaction often is an all out attack? Lots of assumptions that prove to be foolish. That is why it is usually toxic. Because often the one to attack first doesn't have to face an attack because the other 3 people not attacking or being attack would rather just ride it out because its not them.

[rrayy]

I doubt that is toxic to expect someone to know what is going on if he has done this dungeon 20 times already. By not knowing whats going on you literally cut the rewards at the end of the dungeon in half. Isn't that narcissitic? It is ok to not know what is going on, but then you HAVE to learn about a dungeon, if you arent an asshole and like to reduce loot people get.

ANd how do know how many times a random person has done a dungeon? For all you know, They have barely run it. Assuming anything is dangerous. Help them out first, if they refuse to learn after that, then kick them. Immediately raging on them because they don't meet your expectation is toxic behavior because you don't know the other person.

[Fidisko]

ANd how do know how many times a random person has done a dungeon? For all you know, They have barely run it. Assuming anything is dangerous. Help them out first, if they refuse to learn after that, then kick them. Immediately raging on them because they don't meet your expectation is toxic behavior because you don't know the other person.

Why join m+11 if you dont know what to do?

[rrayy]

Why join m+11 if you dont know what to do?

Ignorance. You would be amazed at the levels of player ignorance you will find in the game.

[Frolk]

Calling out BAD players for being BAD does not make u toxic, except for in the eyes of the BAD player.

So many times ive been yelled at for calling out S H I T players when they should clearly know better, like interrupting mobs, attacking mobs while im doing a LoS corner pull.

[prwraith]

I don't do m+ anymore outside of people I know / very high IO people.

Since we're at 14+ consistently now the pool of players is either crazy good or crazy bad. You make friends in the community on high keys pretty quick

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Why join m+11 if you dont know what to do?

Too be fair, an 11 can be pretty much brute forced. It's not too much of a threat yet.

[Loveliest]

Calling out BAD players for being BAD does not make u toxic, except for in the eyes of the BAD player.

So many times ive been yelled at for calling out S H I T players when they should clearly know better, like interrupting mobs, attacking mobs while im doing a LoS corner pull.

Yes it does if you insult them. If you intend to leave, then leave. If you want to inform them t hey were not doing mechanics, do that. If you just want to insult them for wasting your time - what is the point? The only thing you do by just insulting someone is making yourself feel better while trying to make them feel bad - this is what toxic means, because there is nothing constructive about it.

[Belloc]

It's simple: If you're being a dick to your fellow players, you're the toxic one. If you're not being a dick but your fellow players are, or they are being dicks in response to you calling out their failings, then they are the toxic ones.

So, OP, it really just depends on what exactly you said to them. If you said, "wtf is wrong with you? you're supposed to stand [place], not [other place]..." then you are the toxic one. If, however, you said, "Hey guys, for this fight, we're supposed to stand [place] when [event] happens. I noticed some of us were standing [elsewhere/random] and that's why we wiped..." and then they whined and left? Then they are the toxic ones.

People who come to difficult content (defined as heroic+/mythic10+) without knowing the fights and freak out when they're called out are toxic. People who respond to failure with yelling and bitching are toxic.

Finally: OP, if you want to avoid these issues in the future, then add good players to your friends list and create groups from people who know what they're doing.

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Are you never allowed to talk down to people without being toxic? I mean, if someone joins a +11 group without knowing any tactics then I would say they deserve being talked down to.

I would say that they deserved to be talked to as equals. Not WoW equals, of course, but human equals.

Something like, "Hey, [druid], it looks like you don't really know how to handle these fights. Unfortunately, that means we're not going to be able to complete this run with you. In the future, it would be best for all involved if you watch a video or read a guide before taking on high-level mythic content. Best of luck!"

The above is polite and considerate. It conveys the message that the player is not up to the task of completing the run while also treating them with basic human decency.

[Angrie]

Just so EVERYONE knows.... the word "Toxic" in gaming started with Phreak from League of Legends. He used it once in commentary after the tribunal video was released in May2011 and the word since rose in popularity when players are "unpleasant." I refuse to use toxic in this matter.

I said toxic to my neighbor who does not speak english primarily, in reference to another neighbor. The whole conversation they thought i was saying someone is poisoned.
They literally thought someone was dying instead of being a slob. Sometimes it's better to just say what you mean, instead of what is popular...