And people called me a "crazy doomsayer".

[Defend]

I HATE when villains have motivations! Awful writing to try and make them more than muahahahah I’m evil muahahah am I right! I actually think WoW trying to give the villains understandable motivations and depth is something they’ve tried and failed to do but it seems they are actually executing pretty well this expac

[VladlTutushkin]

I HATE when villains have motivations! Awful writing to try and make them more than muahahahah I’m evil muahahah am I right! I actually think WoW trying to give the villains understandable motivations and depth is something they’ve tried and failed to do but it seems they are actually executing pretty well this expac

They are not giving “villain” any motivation or depth. Intended “villain” here is Jailer and he is about as cardboard as they go. Sylvans intded to be “redeemed bad guy” here, or rather “on path to redemption”. So still a cardboard.
Plus - maybe sometimes villain is just a villain and their motives are vain, selfish shit they spin to make themselve look better in their own eyes.

[Yarathir]

I HATE when villains have motivations! Awful writing to try and make them more than muahahahah I’m evil muahahah am I right! I actually think WoW trying to give the villains understandable motivations and depth is something they’ve tried and failed to do but it seems they are actually executing pretty well this expac

This is a strawman, my man.

[loras]

Not sure where you get the whitewashing from, so far she's doubting but even with doubt and potential partial redemption there's no washing out those stains.
She'll still be a villain, if now just one that's a bit more relatable perhaps.

Also regarding 3): One death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic; She knows Anduin, he has made an impact on her, she cannot ignore him as the somanieth nameless faceless number. That makes it more a matter of moral for her than the rest.

You might yet be proven right, but for the moment your post seems like a weirdly emotional jump to conclusions.

[Jericho21]

All opinions here (at least on the first page) are being stated as facts. Ok, we get it, you hate the story arc and it seems like the tired trope we've done before with Arthas/Garrosh. Well, she didn't become Garrosh 2.0 but it looks like she's becoming the very thing she's hated most of all: Arthas. And we see that in this cinematic. She's like "Oh shit, I AM becoming Arthas" and then backs off or so we're led to believe.

Would another Primordial Arthas/Ner'zhul type of Lich Queen be that bad?! If done correctly if could be pulled off. Er'body hated Arthas as Lich King (Jaina is the exception because she was in love with him). Er'body hates Sylvanas like a bad zit on your brown eye. Sure there's pockets of fanbois/grrls of hers but overwhelmingly she's despised by NPCs. There's no going back on what she's done up to this point. Maybe they're (Blizzard) trying to show what could have been if Arthas was redeemed. I dunno, Arthas got his in the end although unjustly by Uther. I mean who died and made Uther judge, jury, and executioner?

Oh, right. The Arbiter. But wait, maybe the Arbiter misjudged Uther? If that's the case maybe the Arbiter's decisions are now suspect and she's now the big bad? How? *points to Uther* She kinda missed that one didn't she? Then again if the Kyrians hadn't been so far up their own prissy asses they would have see the Frostmourne scar on his soul. But they didn't and we have what we have. Uther is an asshole btw. Such purity in the Light, blah blah blah. My ass.

The Jailer knows what's up. His main impediment is out of the way in the Arbiter. The Runecarver is under his lock and key. The other houses are fighting each other. It seems ripe for Sylvanas to now strike the Jailer in the back and take his place. Forever damned and chained to The Maw.

Much like Arthas was chained to the Frozen Throne as Lich King. LOL that would be poetic.

[Dancaris]

And still haters blame Sylvanas for Arbiter not functioning. Typical.

[Tyrathius]

The big twist will be that Sylvanas was never damned and the Jailer hoodwinked her into thinking she was so she'd become his servant. After she finds that out she'll betray him and provide some key role in taking him down, after which everyone will forgive her and move on.

It'll be dumb, especially if she ends up becoming god queen of the Shadowlands, but at least they aren't going the "Sylvanas was secretly good all along and playing 4D chess" route.

[Trollokdamus]

There is no whitewashing. No redemption arc incoming. They're just trying to make Sylvanas more relatable so whatever happens to her in the end feels more significant.

The big twist will be that Sylvanas was never damned and the Jailer hoodwinked her into thinking she was so she'd become his servant. After she finds that out she'll betray him and provide some key role in taking him down, after which everyone will forgive her and move on.

She won't betray him because his goals align with hers. She wants freedom and the only way to achieve it is through the Jailer.

[Houle]

Meanwhile somewhere in Torghast:


Arthas shouting in the background: Purge! Purge! Purge! Purge! Purge!

Sylvanas: I can still hear his voice tormenting me inside.

Arthas: This entire Citadel must be purged! This entire Citadel must be purged! This entire Citadel must be purged! This entire Citadel must be purged! This entire Citadel must be purged! This entire Citadel must be purged!

bonus points of arthas's soul was inside that blue crystal

[razorpax]

Not sure why people are so desperate for her arc to end. Why? So they could focus on more interesting arcs like...baine? On a personal view, I'm a huge fan of redemption arcs, mainly because it might project that each of us is salvagable. Should there be a cost to such redemption? Yes.

I find it hard to understand how cartoon villain Garrosh is more acceptable in horde eyes than a tragic "made to serve", including under Garrosh - Sylvannas.

Ever since WC3 she was under someone command against her will - Arthas, Garrosh, Jailer. I believe outside that frame, all she wants is a release into nothingness


Also, how come Kael'thas being on the road to redemtion is fine? Has he shown remorsem did he change his beliefs? Is he seeking for a way to make the world a better place to be in? Sylvannas was denied her chance for redemption same as Arthas, when the system failed them. Sylvannas is right, the wheel is broken and if anything, this xpac shows she was right all along in her quest for a better afterlife

She’s isn’t some 12 dimension backgammon playing genius

She’s hotheaded and keeps failing only for them to write it like “it all went according to plan” and is supposed to be for free will but still serving the jailer and they went from her being a unique character that cared about her people to a selfish cunt

Like I said no matter if she gets redeemed or not she’s going to die this expansion. This is how it will play out

She corrupts Anduin
She sees the similarities between herself and Arthas now
As Anduin is doing his job as the mawforged light weapon she realizes that the jailer is a cunt
She decides last minute to “use her free will to choose her death” and either takes a hit from Anduin and that saves him or she fixes the corruption at the cost of her own life.

I don’t find that story interesting because fuck me is it beyond predictable and boring. The only thing more predictable is that upon our rescue of Anduin we will see Arthas appear.


As for garrosh at least he wasn’t a bore. He didn’t suddenly stop caring about the orcs. He didn’t let his enemies wander around as he had some cliche plan

Kael at least admits he was a cunt

I’m not saying they were better but I am saying that Sylvanas is on her way out because blizz wrote her character into the sacrifice story

- - - Updated - - -

I honestly can't remember a cinematic or a moment, for the last 2 expansions, where Sylvanas was showing a clear sight of delight while torturing someone. Correct me if I'm wrong here.

She turned Delaryn's head to watch because the elf tried to get the last word on her and Sylvanas was not having any of it. Even then - she was not laughing maniacally while shouting "Go ahead, call the police. They cannot unburn your tree".

That’s because she gets pissy every time she hears the word “hope”

[arandomuser]

why are they calling runeblades "mournblades" instead all of a sudden? sounds dumb


OK, so Anduin is going to be the good, non-toxic version of Arthas who resist temptation instead of succumbing to it, and his sheer goodness and virtuousness will solve everything + redeem Sylvanas. puke

a mourneblade seems to be the term for a sentient blade
remornia is sentient as well as frostmourne
and in fact the dk artifacts are as well i think

[Cherry123]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPOv...hannel=Wowhead

Anduin is an anime protagonist, winning his battles through the power of friendship. What's wrong with Warcraft lore? this shit....... Jokes aside, he's a cancer of this narrative

[Neuroticaine]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPOvUQIbP9s
Aaaand, cut. Scene over. They officially whitewashing Sylvanas by that vomit inducing interaction with Anduin. Lets say it like that - its horrible from every angle. Its like a perfect gem made of pure crap, every side of it shines its own hue of awful.
1) Anduin still sees "some good" in her, aka the Hope or wahetever.
2) Arthas-Anduin parallel which i always found really unnecessary, not every Alliance prince should be compared to Arthas. Arthas wasnt even that great of a character (although he IS better then most current characters.)
3) Whats the point of all that grand talk of "choice" and Anduin placing HIS fate as some kind of "end line" for Evilness when uncountable legions of souls are currently tortured, broken, turned mad or enslaved by the Jailer and Sylvanas. How comes their fates were not evil enough, but if she dares touch him THEN its a Moral Event Horizon?
4) Jailer looks awful, just saying. Handsome squidward is not imposing and looks silly.
5) Kerrigan "redemption" story ahoy, here we go. *vomits*
6) All that was pretty much "foretold" before and people said that it will never happen. Well... I guess it DID happened after all!
But... It dosent make me happy, it just makes me even more disheartened since the Worst Scenario is THE Scenario we going with.

Do you have an actual point? You listed 6 bullet points yet the entirety of your post comes across as nothing more than babbling

- - - Updated - - -

Ah! But you dont get it. It will end up as Kerrigan or maybe Severus Snape type story with arbitrary forgiveness of a villain because she did some good in the end.

Snape was an absolute asshole, but not a villain, not once in the entirety of the present day story. Snape went out of his way multiple times to protect the students of Hogwarts. His days as a villain are long gone. He committed zero acts of villainy throughout the 7 books.

Sylvanas, however, has committed several acts of villainy, even if she believes her acts are justified. It has been explicitly clear that she believed she was doing the right thing for years. Anyone who has been paying attention knew that already. She isn't evil for the sake of being evil. That does not change the acts of villainy she has committed. Even if what she is doing does eventually lead to a Greater Good, whatever that may be, I am sure the people of Azeroth will not let her crimes go unaccounted for.

[MikeBogina]

Alliance players freaking out that Sylvanas might go redemption story like we didn't see this coming.

But like, what about Anduin over here convincing bad guys that there's still good in them? Garrosh 2.0, but the one in chains is reversed.

Really hoping the entire expansion doesn't hinge on these 2, Sylvanas' redemption and Anduin being such a special special boy(he really is so special, you should just throw down your weapons and love him) and instead the Jailer to bring out the real weapon which is Arthas.

- - - Updated - - -

Not really. Those people killed more, but they didnt doomed the souls of those poor bastards to be consumed/enslaved/turned into weapons.

I take it you dont play Venthyr then. The Accuser, one of the biggest authorities of sins says that "Every soul deserves a chance at redemption".

She in fact, committed a crime NEVER before possible, she managed to screw countless people from their afterlives and fed them to the Maw. Before that only Arthas got that treatment.

She did not personally bring each and everyone of those souls to the maw and drop them in like Devos did to Arthas. She had a lot of people killed while the Arbiter was out of order. So she's guilty of knowing they would go to the maw(we actually haven't seen any confirmation of this, but maybe safe to assume) but she actually isn't sending them to the Maw. Many people killed during this time and many people are still killing this time.

[NecroVane]

How dare they even consider a redemption arc for a horde character...only alliance characters get those!

[Super Dickmann]

How dare they even consider a redemption arc for a horde character...only alliance characters get those!

How many expansions until Alliance players have to team up with Sylvanas to free Anduin from Turalyon's bunker on the Vindicaar and help take down Night Elves who just can't accept love and peace on their way?

[Varodoc]

I don't know what this "talk no jutsu" you speak of is, nor do I care, but Anduin won't get away with this. Turalyon, Alleria, Vereesa, and the House of Nobles WON'T stand for this. When he returns to Azeroth, he'll find himself broken and alone. This is only the beginning, you'll see.

[Irian]

I'm convinced Anduin could stand there and breathe for 60 seconds straight with no dialog and an MMO-C post would show up explaining why he's completely ruining the story.

[VladlTutushkin]

Alliance players freaking out that Sylvanas might go redemption story like we didn't see this coming.

But like, what about Anduin over here convincing bad guys that there's still good in them? Garrosh 2.0, but the one in chains is reversed.

Really hoping the entire expansion doesn't hinge on these 2, Sylvanas' redemption and Anduin being such a special special boy(he really is so special, you should just throw down your weapons and love him) and instead the Jailer to bring out the real weapon which is Arthas.

- - - Updated - - -


I take it you dont play Venthyr then. The Accuser, one of the biggest authorities of sins says that "Every soul deserves a chance at redemption".


She did not personally bring each and everyone of those souls to the maw and drop them in like Devos did to Arthas. She had a lot of people killed while the Arbiter was out of order. So she's guilty of knowing they would go to the maw(we actually haven't seen any confirmation of this, but maybe safe to assume) but she actually isn't sending them to the Maw. Many people killed during this time and many people are still killing this time.

And again - she was conspiring with the Jailer and she KNEW that souls were going to the Maw and still killed those people. Those who also killed during this time couldnt have known that souls were going to the Maw and do not share the same blame. Some blame, but not the same.

- - - Updated - - -

How dare they even consider a redemption arc for a horde character...only alliance characters get those!

Call me when an Alliance character does everything Sylvanas did and in the same over the top unapologetic manner and then we talk.

[Swnem]

Whitewashing? What? Sylvanas was a fair skinned Elf since day one.

Anyways... it's too late for her. To have redemption she needs to atone for a lot. I don't know why she would hesitate now after all she has done.

She would have killed him in Lordearon. She sacrificed her people and her love for this cause of hers. Why does she hesitate now? No, this does not make sense.

Or you know... biggest emo fit ever.