Solution for M+ leavers....

[Merlunie]

Here's a hot take. Get better and I won't leave the key after you fuck up mechanics for the 4th time.

[Tziva]

Here's a hot take. Get better and I won't leave the key after you fuck up mechanics for the 4th time.

Uh in this context, it's the person that screwed up multiple times that quit.

[Relapses]

Uh in this context, it's the person that screwed up multiple times that quit.

Just the same, get better so that he won't be compelled to leave the group out of embarrassment after fucking up the same mechanic four times!

[ifrah]

Although when encountering plain bad, toxic or a combination of such players is an infuriating experience, especially in the m+ setting where you can't just take a short break and invite someone to fill in, I still would strongly vote against formulating overly complex or harsh rules there. I'm very doubtful there's a model that would not leave nasty loopholes for malicious or careless players to exploit, or either such draconian environment that the vast majority would just steer clear of any pugs anyway. Join as an invididual into a 4player premade and get 1-star spammed into oblivion just because you lagged behind them in damage meters etc. Trust me, those pricks are out there. Etc.

Showing recaps of the past 5 to 10 last M+ runs in the inspect screen, although I liked this idea in the beginning, has its downsides as well. This can snowball easily if you encounter bad groups (trust me, even if that showed some crystal clear stats how "Player A fought valiantly but was forced to submit due to the clueless other players" it would not matter. No clean runs from high(er) enough keys, you're out.) and keep you out of any groups, other than, well your own friends.
Pugging is luck of the draw and I don't think it should change. The more there's rankings, levels and statistics introduced, the more they will be tunnelvisioned without caring much about the context.

[Lemondish]

I love seeing all these "leet 2 kool for skool" mythic+ players squirming because they finally realized raider io and ilvl means jack shit.

[Haganemaru]

Here's is a simple solution, if someone leaves, the party automatically disband, your keystone does not get depleted and start over, no one wins, no one loses. (And i mean "Leaves the party", not getting disconnected for some reason for a "reasonable time" in wich case, same solution.)

[Biomega]

Here's is a simple solution, if someone leaves, the party automatically disband, your keystone does not get depleted and start over, no one wins, no one loses. (And i mean "Leaves the party", not getting disconnected for some reason for a "reasonable time" in wich case, same solution.)

In that case just get rid of depletion completely. No loot if you don't time, but no key reduction either. You fuck up, you can just restart.

In fact keys should work like Greater Rifts in Diablo where the key level determines the maximum key you can do but the pedestal has a drop-down where you can select any key level below that, too, as you wish.

[Biomega]

I think this would make the process much worse. As soon as you found someone who had a +15, they would start selling runs where you are just trying to complete it for the weekly chest. You'd end up with a lot of people running dungeons they aren't ready for so that they can get the weekly chest, and every run would be a disaster.

So change it so that the weekly needs to be timed.

[Neotart]

Ok it is either some people here reply before reading everything or too dumb to understand.


THE ONE WHO DIED IS THE ONE WHO LEFT AND CAUSED THE KEY AND RUN TO BE RUINED BECAUSE HE FAILED TO DODGE BASIC MECHANIC FROM THE FIRST BOSS IN THE DUNGEON. He kept dying and he was the only pug in the group the rest 4 of the group were me and 3 friends.


I even stated in the description about no leavers please. How the hell is that even my fault ? typical mmo champ members who just reply for the sake of writing a reply without even fucking understanding the topic itself?

You seem mad now. you started this discussion....who cares....really who?? you pugged a player that was bad. it happens to literally everyone...PLEASE go to Redditt with your drama threads.....what did you expect this thread to yield? for a 10 year member on here you seem dense.

Edit. and it seems like you lucked out... its better than spending over an hour in there just to wipe again and again, and have someone leave an hour in. NOW that would be a waste of time. you truly got lucky...him leaving so early on. ALSO if the rest of the players were "friends" why not complete the +10? it was your goal anyways... sure it would of took longer. but think of all the time u spent on here and replying to others......it would still be LESS time than releveling that key to 10 and then doing it again.......... you just seem to be attention seeking...

[-Zo-]

The worse is when you need to pug a tank. They pretty much get to fuck over any key and face zero question on anything or they bounce.

I guess I've been lucky. As a healer, I tend to look for groups needing a healer often already with a tank, so maybe that's part of it, but today we had this tank who started out pretty cool, ie, not obviously insane. We were doing halls, and he was pulling s...l...o...w. I don't mind a chill pull rate, but this was over the top slow and I felt like probably would not time the key. DPS seemed fine. It was halls 7, not anything super serious.

He actually got himself killed to sin quake by standing in bad (probably overlapping bad, so well played my friend) and being one-shotted. Still everything seemed ok. Suddenly, before first boss (yeah he couldn't melt down at the start, I guess better than before the last boss), he starts complaining about no interrupts and like he's "being destroyed" by casting mobs. Note that he was not anywhere close to dying the whole time except when he died to his own mistake earlier. A couple pulls later, he started laying into the whole group about not slowing the mobs down/cc/etc when he ran away due to "high necrotic stacks" again despite the fact he was no where near even starting to get in trouble, and I had his back with ring of peace but it was not needed.

The rest of our group wasn't really having his abuse. I swear he wasted like 2 minutes yelling at us by then, so he left group and it ended. I think they were about as stunned as I was, which was a lot.

I've never seen anything like that before, it was like jekyll and hyde, or like he intentionally wasted his own time to troll us. I don't get it. I've been in bad groups before, where nobody interrupts and nobody seems to care a bit about their own survival, or mana, or anything but numbers. Those are super frustrating as a healer and I bet even for a good tank, but this was nowhere close to that. I'll have to chalk it up to him being some crazy bastard with mood swings I guess but it's as if he made up complaints to get out of it for some reason.

Anyway, I would totally be in favor of some kind of simple rating system on r.io where you could rate someone for like, skill and professionalism. Nobody would bring this little toxic douchebag in their group if he made a habit of this and got a lot of believable bad ratings. And, nobody should have to either.

[Lefrog]

I think people are looking at things from a small sample size perspective. If raiderio or the blizzard internal tracker can identify disconnects and leaves, innocent disconnects are not a major concern. All that would matter is a pattern. Someone who does 20 keys a week and disconnects from a key once per week would have an issue in 5% of their keys, barely something that's relevant. Someone who runs 20 keys and either leaves or disconnects in, say, 30-50%? That would certainly warrant a flag and a little popup identifying them as a frequent leaver. The much bigger issue would be tracking something like hearthstoning via raider.io, which I am honestly unsure how to resolve. However I would have to imagine that would be an unlikely risk, considering they would be wasting their own time just as much as everyone else's..

No need to flag them in game. Just have the statistic available in raider.io

Would you invite to a +12:

800io (only did 1 +12) but with a 95% completion and 95% timed Percentages (normal dude doing stuff his level)

Or

1500io 50% completion and 95% timed. (Good player but leaver)

Or

1500io with 95% completion but 50% timed. (He stays...but he only times half his runs so io score is inflated - could have just bought runs)

I always thought it would give a better idea of who to invite if they could add more internal game stats to players. This would encourage players to stay, but also not penalize em too much for leaving once in a blue moon because the kitchen sink caught fire. This would also encourage people to stay within their skill levels. You should only really be failing a lot of runs if you are cutting edge pushing super high keys...in which case no ones going to care that you’ve failed 50% of your keys. Would help weed out the people who get good io scores by inviting overqualified people to carry or buy runs.

Maybe even have an option to turn off percentages for “test” runs but then you get no gear or increase in io score.

[Biomega]

Would you invite to a +12:

800io (only did 1 +12) but with a 95% completion and 95% timed Percentages (normal dude doing stuff his level)

Or

1500io 50% completion and 95% timed. (Good player but leaver)

Or

1500io with 95% completion but 50% timed. (He stays...but he only times half his runs so io score is inflated - could have just bought runs)

1,500 with the highest ilvl or the meta class (provided they're not from Ragnaros or Azralon, of course).

That's how it'll work in reality 99% of the time.

In theory, you're right of course: more data does, on average, lead to better selection. The problem is that this has diminishing returns, and runs into ease-of-use issues - that's WHY we have a SINGLE score. People want things to be immediately apparent. They see 1,500+ they invite, the end. They don't want to go through more numbers and leave/stay ratios and check whatever else. A tiny minority of people might do so, but on the whole, it'd be ineffectual bloat.

I think that in the long run, we definitely just need a PvE rating system analogous to the PvP one. Separate raid and dungeon scores, some kind of penalty system for leaving keys that are in progress (i.e. not depleted), that kind of thing. It won't be perfect, and it won't stop abuse/toxicity completely; but it'd probably reduce it somewhat, and it'd at least give people an "official" pointer that they need to adhere to.

[kaminaris]

There is no solution because M+ was designed to be not rewarding when you don't time it so... you won't ever get reliable way to avoid people leaving as even if you play with a group of friends, you just should abandon run once you realize it's not gonna be in time. Unless its like on last boss.

And if you really wanna have it that way, type in title:
"+10 NOT IN TIME"

Then ask once you invite people if they read title. Then proceed to assure them: "we will absolutely not make it in time", "not a chance", "this may take pretty long".
Don't be swayed by people saying: "come on, its just X key, we surely time it", repeat to them: "that is not even remotely possible"

If someone won't abandon their hope, just remove them from group.

And once you get a team that agrees, you will have 95% less chance to have leavers.

[froschhure]

it needs to give as much loot as in time runs = less leaver
add bonusrolls = less leaver

[Velshin]

You seem mad now. you started this discussion....who cares....really who?? you pugged a player that was bad. it happens to literally everyone...PLEASE go to Redditt with your drama threads.....what did you expect this thread to yield? for a 10 year member on here you seem dense.

Edit. and it seems like you lucked out... its better than spending over an hour in there just to wipe again and again, and have someone leave an hour in. NOW that would be a waste of time. you truly got lucky...him leaving so early on. ALSO if the rest of the players were "friends" why not complete the +10? it was your goal anyways... sure it would of took longer. but think of all the time u spent on here and replying to others......it would still be LESS time than releveling that key to 10 and then doing it again.......... you just seem to be attention seeking...

First of all I started this thread to take opinions of the members here about what solution is the best for this system yet you started personally insulting me really? I am not attention seeking or anything really just interested in seeing others opinion on that matter. If you dont have anything useful to provide or add I suggest you stop replying really. As I said before I will be okay if that happened years ago (when I had so much time to play the game) but now my current WoW time is super limited due to my real life work and in that limited time I like to be as effcient as possible I dont think it is a sin really.

[rrayy]

Raider IO just shows what people completed.

What we need is like Yelp reviews for players.

Because that wouldn't be abused at all.

You don't give players that type of power as it will be abused.

[Skylarking]

or sexist lol... i have had sexist comments aimed at me both in wow and overwatch when i don't play a healer if they know i'm a woman...

Just dont be a woman 4Head

[Twdft]

I think the thing where you keep getting the same dungeon if you don't complete it is problematic. It leads to dead keys. Without that I think leavers would be slightly less bothersome. It still sucks, but it sucks more when you get a tough dungeon, someone leaves because it's tough, and then you have to start over in the same dungeon on a lower key. I think most people just give up at that point and try to find other keys to run.

This behavior is actually needed for higher keys. If your goal is to time all 15s for the achievement you go into a 16 for a practise run and deplete at endboss if not timed to go immediately in again and time your 15. Much easier than running different dungeons all the time.

[Temp name]

I'd also apply the debuff to anyone who /afk times out while inside the instance.

I can just sidestep slightly every minute. No AFK tag, while still being afk
And what about the couple people who play with the AFK tag on, for some reason?

There could be checks in place. Something like if the whole group has left the instance then disbands, no debuffs are given. If one person hearths out and leaves the group they get the debuff. Hearthing out and NOT leaving the group (in the case that no one has a repair mount or jeeves) only gives the debuff after 5-10 minutes.

Again, I can just stay in the dungeon, moving slightly every minute

You could get a 5 minute debuff that simply says "Not returning to your current dungeon will afflict you with Coward's Demise, preventing you from attempting more Mythic+ until tomorrow." Giving you plenty of time to find a repair and get your summon back (although who doesn't have at least the Traveller's Mammoth at this point?)

again, can stay in without the game saying I'm AFK. As for Traveller's Mammoth: Sanguine Depths.

I think it could be automated, very similarly to BG deserter just a longer version of it.

no

The biggest issue I can see with my idea is how to handle someone being removed by the group leader since M+ is all manually formed groups. Since kicking someone from the group would technically flag them as a deserter after they got ported, there would have to be something in place to prevent 4 assholes inviting some random and then just kicking them to give them the debuff. The voting system wouldn't work as it's too easily exploitable by said 4 assholes. Not too sure how to fix that, but I don't think it would be prevalent enough to just continue ignoring the problem of people leaving keys and wasting the whole group's time/consumables.

And that's another issue with it.

The system cannot catch everyone being malicious while catching no innocents. It cannot be done. That's why it hasn't been tried.

- - - Updated - - -

Then you failed to time your highest key last week.

If your top key was a +13 that you failed, you get a +12.

If your top key was a +9 that you timed, you get a +9.

That's not how it works. The only way you get a key the same as the highest level you completed is if you did a +2.

You always get a -1 from what you did, even if you timed it.

[D3athsting]

That's not how it works. The only way you get a key the same as the highest level you completed is if you did a +2.

You always get a -1 from what you did, even if you timed it.

What you get from doing hc raid bosses and no m+ keys? No key at all?